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Re: Nabbed on the 400
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 03, 2014 9:39 pm 
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High Authority

Joined: Tue Feb 01, 2011 9:49 pm
Posts: 2110
Location: Ontario
Requesting an adjournment because the Crown failed to provide disclosure which you requested in a timely fashion does NOT count against you.

salem2210 wrote:


As stated in your link:

Quote:
Anytime you ask for an adjournment for a reason that is NOT the fault of the Crown or the administration of the courts, that time counts AGAINST you in calculating delay for the purposes of s. 11(b) of the Charter.

If you ask for an adjournment because the Crown didn't give you disclosure, that counts against the Crown, not you.

If you ask for an adjournment because you want more time to prepare your defence, and you've had disclosure for months, then the delay counts against you.


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Re: Nabbed on the 400
PostPosted: Sat Jan 04, 2014 2:38 pm 
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Newbie

Joined: Fri Aug 02, 2013 6:48 pm
Posts: 20
Thanks for all the help. I was wondering if I should show up with any case law, to bolster my request for dismissal due to missing, inadequate, or in-timely disclosure?


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Re: Nabbed on the 400
PostPosted: Mon Jan 06, 2014 10:18 am 
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Jr. Member

Joined: Wed Apr 18, 2012 1:03 pm
Posts: 32
TheForce wrote:
Thanks for all the help. I was wondering if I should show up with any case law, to bolster my request for dismissal due to missing, inadequate, or in-timely disclosure?


You are not looking for a dismissal of the charge. You are simply looking for an adjourment. You can just say that your requesting an adjournment in order to give the crown time to provide disclosure. It is a good idea to talk to the crown before hand and let them know this is what you will be requesting.


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Re: Nabbed on the 400
PostPosted: Tue Jan 07, 2014 2:13 pm 
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Joined: Fri Aug 02, 2013 6:48 pm
Posts: 20
So the prosecutor’s office finally sent disclosure at 9:17, today Tuesday, January 07, 2014– a day before my scheduled trail. It is, not surprisingly, incomplete. The time stamp indicates they have had it since Nov. 1/2013. It also says it was disclosed on Dec. 11/13 and, despite having my email address since Nov.1, it was only sent today. Is it unreasonable to suggest that this is unfair and infringes upon my right to prepare a defense, just because of the inordinate amount of time it took them to release or send disclosure?
Attachment:
tom002.jpg
tom002.jpg [ 170.32 KiB | Viewed 311 times ]

I only received one side of the ticket, the officer's notes (not type written as requested, or explained) and 5 pages of the Lidar manual
Should I email my concerns to the prosecutor's office in regards to untimely and inadequate disclosure or wait til court tomorrow?


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Re: Nabbed on the 400
PostPosted: Tue Jan 07, 2014 3:24 pm 
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Newbie

Joined: Fri Aug 02, 2013 6:48 pm
Posts: 20
Here’s the page of the officer’s notes that relates to my charge:
Attachment:
tom3003.jpg
tom3003.jpg [ 77.94 KiB | Viewed 310 times ]


The first line I can’t figure out what the numbers refer too.
Lp.dl R2200 40776 ?0626 ????
The next line indicates the Lidar unit?
OPP Lidar ??-???? Atlanta
The next to lines are testing times?
T????? ?? 0510 23Jul13
T????? ?? 1635 23Jul13
The last one is his qualifications?
Qual 24 Oct 06 / 17Jul13

The I observed vel in L1 passing vel
L2p high rate of speed. Rds dry, ???
light, visibility good. Visual
continuity maintained.

Then Provincial offenses number and relevant highway traffic section.

O650 SB 400Sb & Mapl???? Is this location of offense?
0707 Velstop 400 NB s of Map?????

I’m trying decipher the times here. Did it take 17 minutes to catch up to me? And what about the 0627 time?

Here are the parts I find troubling:
- I was not in Lane 1, I was in the middle lane which I assume is Lane 2.
- He was not able to maintain visual contact because of the hill all three vehicles went over.
- All three had pulled into the slow lane by the time he caught up
- There are no distances or readings for Lidar


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Re: Nabbed on the 400
PostPosted: Tue Jan 07, 2014 6:30 pm 
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Newbie

Joined: Fri Aug 02, 2013 6:48 pm
Posts: 20
Further thoughts: these notes seem like they were written after, perhaps well after the event. How else could the test at the end of the shift be inserted before the time of offense. Is it common or typical practice to note your qualifications in your notes. Time on ticket is 0707.


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Re: Nabbed on the 400
PostPosted: Wed Jan 08, 2014 9:36 am 
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Newbie

Joined: Fri Aug 02, 2013 6:48 pm
Posts: 20
I was hoping a moderator or administrator would respond to the uploaded disclosure files. I go into court in @ 5 hours.


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Re: Nabbed on the 400
PostPosted: Wed Jan 08, 2014 3:47 pm 
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Sr. Member

Joined: Wed Mar 30, 2011 1:08 pm
Posts: 536
Location: Ontario
If the officer is not there ask for adjournment due to the fact that you received such late disclosure. What you want to stress is that you feel it is the fault of the crown.


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Re: Nabbed on the 400
PostPosted: Wed Jan 08, 2014 4:23 pm 
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Newbie

Joined: Fri Aug 02, 2013 6:48 pm
Posts: 20
So here's my afternoon in court.
Got to court early.
The police officer arrived there soon after.
Spoke to prosecutor: 
She said, are you looking for a deal? 
I said, I'm open to suggestions.
She wrote down 120 in 100. $90 (plus cost and surcharge $115) 3 points (instead of $329 and 4 points)
That was a lot better than I was expecting, but I asked if could I speak to the officer before accepting that deal
 She said yes. 
I had to wait a bit, spoke to officer, who was very cordial and professional and it was discovered that the prosecutions office had sent the wrong pages of his notes in my disclosure package. In actuality, I wasn't given the most important page. He went through it with me and it was all there, distances readings, etc. He was extremely well organized -- even had his pages numbered!
I thanked him and realized that I probably could have asked for an adjournment, but I already spent a lot of time and suffered angst over this and still felt a little unprepared.
The best part is that it seemed fair and was definitely a slower speed than I was actually going.
There were quite a few similar reductions offered and accepted. There were some withdrawals, usually to those who had paralegals or lawyers representing them. 
Moral of the story: it definitely pays to request a court date and show up.
(oh and OPP officers will show up)


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