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Ontario Highway Traffic Act

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103 in a 60; first ticket; need your advice.
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PostPosted: Sat Feb 14, 2015 12:33 pm 
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Pretty self-explanatory, I was caught doing 103 in a 60 zone in York Region yesterday (Feb 13/ 2015). Officer was on the other side of the street facing me ( I was headed south; he was parked) and as soon as I passed him, he pulled a U-E and caught up to me. He showed me his radar which read 101; after which I kept the conversation to a minimum. I tried to plead with him, claiming it was my first time even being pulled over and first time being issued a ticket. To no avail, I was still issued the ticket without any reduction from the officer. What's baffling to me is on the ticket he had issued it says 103 in the 60 zone even though I clearly saw 101 on the radar he had just showed me (not sure if this really matters). To pour salt on the wound, the officer just threw an ''obstruct plate'' ticket for fun because my car was dirty all around thus the plates had salt and grime on them. I am not too worried about the latter ticket.

Now I'm going to fight this speeding ticket as much as I can, but I am worried about the impending hike on my insurance rates. I am a 24 year old male who has been a primary/secondary driver on my parent's insurance policy since I was 18 without any incident. I have had an unblemished record up until this ticket. I've been doing my research and have found that demerit points have no correlation with insurance rates as they will only see my abstract. What is the best possible case for me in this situation? This is my first time being thrown in this legal process and the fact that I went 43 over is not helping. I appreciate any advice, suggestions, just really anything you guys can provide me with. Thanks for taking the time to read this.


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Re: 103 in a 60; first ticket; need your advice.
PostPosted: Sat Feb 14, 2015 2:08 pm 
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Location: Ontario
The only thing you can do really is request a trial and when you get a trial date ask for disclosure and see what the evidence against you is. Post your disclosure here if you want our thoughts on the matter. If the evidence is strong you might want to plea to a lesser charge at your court date if it is within a reasonable time frame (has to total 11ish months through no fault of your own or you can ask for a stay) and the officer is present (if he's not insist that the trial start without him there is no case and you win).

If you do decide to plea bargain I personally would ask for the speeding to be dropped for a guilty plea on obstruct plate (it probably will not happen but its never hurts to try). Odds are you will end up pleading guilty for a reduced speeding charge and the other ticket gets dropped.

OR

You can hire a professional and let them worry about the whole thing while you go about your life.


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Re: 103 in a 60; first ticket; need your advice.
PostPosted: Sat Feb 14, 2015 5:35 pm 
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You can't lose by filing for trial. File for trial and wait. Firstly you delay the charge entering your record until potentially you are 25(when insurance rates drop). Secondly, you may never get a trial(sometimes they make mistakes and mess up something)-this is unlikely however. If it comes to a trial date, you can always ask for disclosure and if something is missing you can get the charges dismissed(again unlikely as police are generally pretty diligent). However, if the trial date is over 10-12 months you can get the charges stayed on the Charter section 11(b). Also the police officer may not show up. These last 2 options happen frequently in the GTA.

Actually, offences with zero demerit points DO affect your insurance. All offences affect your drivers abstract.

Most people worry about demerit points needlessly. You have to try very hard(and not in a good way) to get 9 demerit points in 2 years to get a MTO interview or 15 to get a licence suspension.


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Re: 103 in a 60; first ticket; need your advice.
PostPosted: Sat Feb 14, 2015 7:02 pm 
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Thank you for the quick and informative responses. I have concluded that going to trial is my best possible option, right now debating whether hiring a paralegal or doing this on my own is the best possible route to take. Can anybody chime in on what the prosecutor might reduce my speeds/point to? I am worried my insurance will take a beating because I have committed a major infraction, and right now the best possible scenario looks like I can get it reduced to a minor infraction. What are the odds I will be offered a 15 over, 20 over, etc. Again, I am not too considered about the points just the insurance aspect. Thanks in advance for all the help.


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Re: 103 in a 60; first ticket; need your advice.
PostPosted: Sat Feb 14, 2015 7:17 pm 
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Have you confirmed that your insurance provider considers it to be a major infraction? Typically 50 over is the threshold, though some apparently start at 35 over.

In my experience, the Crown will frequently drop a speeding ticket down to the next lower fine/point threshold. I wouldn't be surprised if they at least offer you a plea to 29 over, which would be 3 points (versus 4) and a $138.75 fine (versus $323). Keep in mind though it may be more beneficial to simply get the plate charge dropped. A conviction for 29 over and obstructed plate will have a greater impact on your insurance rates then just a conviction for 43 over (assuming it's considered a minor offence).


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Re: 103 in a 60; first ticket; need your advice.
PostPosted: Sat Feb 14, 2015 8:46 pm 
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Stanton wrote:
Have you confirmed that your insurance provider considers it to be a major infraction? Typically 50 over is the threshold, though some apparently start at 35 over.

In my experience, the Crown will frequently drop a speeding ticket down to the next lower fine/point threshold. I wouldn't be surprised if they at least offer you a plea to 29 over, which would be 3 points (versus 4) and a $138.75 fine (versus $323). Keep in mind though it may be more beneficial to simply get the plate charge dropped. A conviction for 29 over and obstructed plate will have a greater impact on your insurance rates then just a conviction for 43 over (assuming it's considered a minor offence).


Thanksb for your response Stanton. It alarms me that an obstructed plate has the ability to impact my insurance rates... Is this something that shows up on a driver's abstract therefore giving a reason for my insurance to increase my premiums even more? I thought this ticket was meaningless.


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Re: 103 in a 60; first ticket; need your advice.
PostPosted: Sat Feb 14, 2015 9:34 pm 
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Any HTA conviction where you're the driver will show up on your abstract. So not having a copy of your insurance slip in the car will impact your rates just as much as blowing a red light, even though one is obviously more indicative of bad driving.

The Insurance Bureau of Canada has a brochure here: http://assets.ibc.ca/Documents/Brochure ... FAQ-ON.pdf

Go to page 11 where they break down expected rate increases based on number of convictions and provide a list of typical minor, major and serious offences.


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Re: 103 in a 60; first ticket; need your advice.
PostPosted: Tue Feb 17, 2015 2:20 pm 
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Stanton wrote:
Any HTA conviction where you're the driver will show up on your abstract. So not having a copy of your insurance slip in the car will impact your rates just as much as blowing a red light, even though one is obviously more indicative of bad driving.

The Insurance Bureau of Canada has a brochure here: http://assets.ibc.ca/Documents/Brochure ... FAQ-ON.pdf

Go to page 11 where they break down expected rate increases based on number of convictions and provide a list of typical minor, major and serious offences.


I referred with my insurance company and you're right...the obstruction of plate is also a conviction that can raise my premiums. Now my question is am I allowed to ask for any early resolution for the obstruction ticket while asking for trial for the speeding ticket? I'm not sure if I can choose different options for these tickets as they are from the same incident. I believe I have a good chance of getting the obstruction of plate ticket thrown out if I were to meet with a prosecutor, then I can solely focus on the speeding ticket. This is also to combat the prosecution using the obstruction ticket as something theyre willing to drop while I pay the full speeding ticket if I were to go to trial for both. Let me know what you guys think. Thanks.


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Re: 103 in a 60; first ticket; need your advice.
PostPosted: Tue Feb 17, 2015 2:31 pm 
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Joined: Mon Nov 29, 2010 8:08 pm
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The two tickets can not be separated, this question has been asked before: topic4411.html#p25457


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Re: 103 in a 60; first ticket; need your advice.
PostPosted: Tue Feb 17, 2015 3:00 pm 
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xkrtls wrote:
Now my question is am I allowed to ask for any early resolution for the obstruction ticket while asking for trial for the speeding ticket?


You can't have your cake and eat it too. The reason they'd consider dropping one for the other revolves around you pleading guilty. It's a bargaining chip and you don't want to bargain. It's give and take but you aren't giving anything back. They might as well proceed with both charges.


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Re: 103 in a 60; first ticket; need your advice.
PostPosted: Tue Feb 24, 2015 1:10 am 
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You were heading South.

Which direction was the cop was facing when he parked to detect your speed?


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Re: 103 in a 60; first ticket; need your advice.
PostPosted: Sat Mar 21, 2015 5:52 pm 
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hi xolunaxo, he was facing north so basically he was parked on the other side of the road.


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