Back in April my wife got a 76 in a 50 charge and the officer knocked it down to 60 in a 50. Checked the ticket but no fatal errors. Asked for trial and requested disclosure. Got the full radar manual and officers notes. His notes were pretty much bullet proof with tracking history and the TEST PASSED both before and after enforcement and all the other elements . Went to court today (yes officer was there) and sat thru 3 hours of people mostly pleading guilty and setting trial dates then at 11am prosecution asked for short recess. There was only three of us left in the courtroom at this time. He spoke with the other two and sent one person off to go over notes with officer, then called me over and said "Well your charge is only a 10 over and this other guy has a failing to stop. If he wants to proceed to trial then we won't have time for yours because you filed a couple motions that we would have to deal with even before we start the trial. So if he wants a trial that will work in your favor and I will drop the charge. Any problems with that?" Of course I said "No, that sounds good to me." When the other guy came back in from talking to officer, he told prosecutor he wanted to go to trial, so prosecutor told the officer (for my wife's charge) that he could leave and told me he would withdraw charge when JP came back in. I will take a win anyway I can!!! I will post all my notes and motions below so you can see the defence that I was prepared to use.
Back in April my wife got a 76 in a 50 charge and the officer knocked it down to 60 in a 50.
Checked the ticket but no fatal errors. Asked for trial and requested disclosure. Got the full radar manual and officers notes. His notes were pretty much bullet proof with tracking history and the TEST PASSED both before and after enforcement and all the other elements .
Went to court today (yes officer was there) and sat thru 3 hours of people mostly pleading guilty and setting trial dates then at 11am prosecution asked for short recess. There was only three of us left in the courtroom at this time. He spoke with the other two and sent one person off to go over notes with officer, then called me over and said "Well your charge is only a 10 over and this other guy has a failing to stop. If he wants to proceed to trial then we won't have time for yours because you filed a couple motions that we would have to deal with even before we start the trial. So if he wants a trial that will work in your favor and I will drop the charge. Any problems with that?" Of course I said "No, that sounds good to me."
When the other guy came back in from talking to officer, he told prosecutor he wanted to go to trial, so prosecutor told the officer (for my wife's charge) that he could leave and told me he would withdraw charge when JP came back in.
I will take a win anyway I can!!!
I will post all my notes and motions below so you can see the defence that I was prepared to use.
So here is my entire defence I had prepared including motions I filed and even disclosure requests. https://copy.com/wzvOPlpNE6Z8nOAm You will notice my first Notice of Motion was an Affidavit but then my second Notice of Motion was a Sworn Declaration. An affadavit must be notorized but a sworn declaration can just be signed by you, which is easier and cheaper and that's why I changed.
So here is my entire defence I had prepared including motions I filed and even disclosure requests.
You will notice my first Notice of Motion was an Affidavit but then my second Notice of Motion was a Sworn Declaration. An affadavit must be notorized but a sworn declaration can just be signed by you, which is easier and cheaper and that's why I changed.
Just finished reading your detailed report thanks for that ! So basically prosecutor figured it would be too much work for 10 over ticket considering the 2 motions you have filed ? I currently have a ticket from the same jurisdiction and the same court location using the same radar gun model, would it be a valid motion to file to have this particular device evidence dismissed due to lack of TAC ? Aren't the police aware that this could be easily challenged and for some reason are still using this device ? When do I file this motion , before the trial date ?
Just finished reading your detailed report thanks for that ! So basically prosecutor figured it would be too much work for 10 over ticket considering the 2 motions you have filed ?
I currently have a ticket from the same jurisdiction and the same court location using the same radar gun model, would it be a valid motion to file to have this particular device evidence dismissed due to lack of TAC ? Aren't the police aware that this could be easily challenged and for some reason are still using this device ? When do I file this motion , before the trial date ?
Well what happened is that because I filed the motions, my file got put at the bottom of the pile. At the end of the morning they had two trials to do, but only time for one, so the prosecutor decided to work on the other one as the charge was more serious. He did say if the other person was going to plead guilty and not go to trial that he would have proceeded. They will almost always do the self-represented trials at the end, and they will almost always keep the most complicated/longest for the end as well. However I was still prepared to go ahead with the trial and was not actually planning on them dropping it before it started. I am not sure what the police are or are not aware of as far as the device is concerned. If you present evidence to be considered ahead of time in the form of a motion, then it makes them at least have to deal with it, and rebut it. Since I did not have to deal with the motion, I am not sure yet how they will try deal with it. Maybe they have other information that I did not have. You should file it as far in advance of the trial as you can so they have adequate time to prepare. And if you do file it, you need to be prepared to present it and defend it so you have to actually read the whole thing and understand each point as best you can... copy and paste motions do not work... you need to grasp the concepts.
Well what happened is that because I filed the motions, my file got put at the bottom of the pile. At the end of the morning they had two trials to do, but only time for one, so the prosecutor decided to work on the other one as the charge was more serious. He did say if the other person was going to plead guilty and not go to trial that he would have proceeded. They will almost always do the self-represented trials at the end, and they will almost always keep the most complicated/longest for the end as well. However I was still prepared to go ahead with the trial and was not actually planning on them dropping it before it started.
I am not sure what the police are or are not aware of as far as the device is concerned. If you present evidence to be considered ahead of time in the form of a motion, then it makes them at least have to deal with it, and rebut it. Since I did not have to deal with the motion, I am not sure yet how they will try deal with it. Maybe they have other information that I did not have. You should file it as far in advance of the trial as you can so they have adequate time to prepare. And if you do file it, you need to be prepared to present it and defend it so you have to actually read the whole thing and understand each point as best you can... copy and paste motions do not work... you need to grasp the concepts.
Do you have any knowledge if filing to have radar evidence dismissed for that particular device has worked in cases before or is this something you came up with by yourself ? Since the radar evidence is the main evidence, if the motion gets upheld does it basically dismiss the prosecutions case ? Officer can't testify what the radar said since it would not be allowed so what other testimony would he be able to submit ? Also honestly, if the prosecutor did not see an easy likely hood to convict, perhaps that's why he told you this ? How does another case affect yours if he can just get another conviction ? They could have easily adjuourned to another date ? What I am saying is that your 2 motions might have been too difficult to deal with in his opinion and not worth the time and hassle ?
Do you have any knowledge if filing to have radar evidence dismissed for that particular device has worked in cases before or is this something you came up with by yourself ?
Since the radar evidence is the main evidence, if the motion gets upheld does it basically dismiss the prosecutions case ? Officer can't testify what the radar said since it would not be allowed so what other testimony would he be able to submit ?
Also honestly, if the prosecutor did not see an easy likely hood to convict, perhaps that's why he told you this ? How does another case affect yours if he can just get another conviction ? They could have easily adjuourned to another date ? What I am saying is that your 2 motions might have been too difficult to deal with in his opinion and not worth the time and hassle ?
I came up with it myself and have not seen it used before. If the radar evidence was excluded, then there is no evidence to your speed and the charge would have to be dropped. I really can't speak to the prosecutors reasons. There was another guy that he sent out with officer to review officers notes, and while they were out there he told me that if the guy wanted a trial then he would drop mine, but if the guy was going to plead guilty then he would proceed with my trial. What I can tell you, is that sitting there for 3 hours of court and listening to the different discussions that the prosecutor was having with everybody, he seemed to me to be a very reasonable person, meaning that he was not interested in simply pressing forward and getting a conviction on everything he could, but was intead interested in the evidence and whether it was worthwhile to proceed. Yes, he could very well of asked for an adjournment for my trial (which I would have objected too), but then the police officer would have to come back again so I don't think he was concerned that it was too difficult. You can not rely on the officer not showing up and you can not rely on the prosecutor thinking it will be to difficult. Although those are possibilities, you need to have a good defense prepared as well. I sent you PM.
I came up with it myself and have not seen it used before.
If the radar evidence was excluded, then there is no evidence to your speed and the charge would have to be dropped.
I really can't speak to the prosecutors reasons. There was another guy that he sent out with officer to review officers notes, and while they were out there he told me that if the guy wanted a trial then he would drop mine, but if the guy was going to plead guilty then he would proceed with my trial. What I can tell you, is that sitting there for 3 hours of court and listening to the different discussions that the prosecutor was having with everybody, he seemed to me to be a very reasonable person, meaning that he was not interested in simply pressing forward and getting a conviction on everything he could, but was intead interested in the evidence and whether it was worthwhile to proceed. Yes, he could very well of asked for an adjournment for my trial (which I would have objected too), but then the police officer would have to come back again so I don't think he was concerned that it was too difficult.
You can not rely on the officer not showing up and you can not rely on the prosecutor thinking it will be to difficult. Although those are possibilities, you need to have a good defense prepared as well.
Yah, but for a split second weren't you disappointed that you didn't get to argue your case? I had something similar happen and I was so pumped up and ready to present that it was almost a let down when the JP said I could go. Emphasis on the word "Almost"! Congratulations!
jsherk wrote:
I will take a win anyway I can!!!
Yah, but for a split second weren't you disappointed that you didn't get to argue your case?
I had something similar happen and I was so pumped up and ready to present that it was almost a let down when the JP said I could go. Emphasis on the word "Almost"!
Nope I doubt it because there would have been much eye-rolling from the judge, and a conviction. Even if the device isn't listed for Canada the evidence would have to show it wasn't accurate. If someone wanted to lay a charge against the officer for using an unapproved device then that would be an entirely different matter. It's not like a breath alcohol measuring device which has to be listed in the CC. He got it dropped because he was going to be a bigger pain in the ass than the time allowed for, not because his arguments had any merit.
Nope I doubt it because there would have been much eye-rolling from the judge, and a conviction.
Even if the device isn't listed for Canada the evidence would have to show it wasn't accurate. If someone wanted to lay a charge against the officer for using an unapproved device then that would be an entirely different matter.
It's not like a breath alcohol measuring device which has to be listed in the CC.
He got it dropped because he was going to be a bigger pain in the ass than the time allowed for, not because his arguments had any merit.
Former Ontario Police Officer. Advice will become less relevant as the time goes by !
I got ticket for failing to stop at stop sign in Toronto. i heard that the police officer must see the stop line, if there is one, from where he was sitting. That is exactly my case, Is it a strong case? If so do i need a picture to show that there is a stop line and a picture to show that he could not see the stop line from where he was sitting?
I got a ticket, Disobey stop sign, sec 136.1.a on dec 6th
I made a left in an intersection and was pulled over by a police officer in an unmarked car who had been sitting down the road. A classic fishing hole situation. I was genuinely surprised when he stopped me and told me I went through a stop sign without even slowing down. I know to shut up and be polite and take the ticket. I…
Yesterday morning, I rear-ended someone. I was going the speed limit. The sun was directly in front of me and it blinded my windshield and my eyes. At the same time, the person in front of me stopped/slowed down (also due to the sun). I started to slow down but didn't stop and I hit them since I couldn't see anything. I was not driving too close initially. I…
I was driving in the county at night and hit a limousine stretched out side ways across the road. The limo had its lights on and had side lighting as well. The police officer charged me with careless driving because it was "fully lit up".
It took me to the next day to figure out what had happened - what I remember made no sense. What I had run across was a "false visual reference" illusion.
I was on hwy 37 trying to make my girlfriends ganadmas mass and I live an hour away and I had an hour to get there so I was going fast but not 50 over untill some idiot got on my tail soo close that I was to concentrated on him that I kept going faster untill I got pulled over at 147 on an 80 km hwy.
I alreaddy lost 3 points and this time was just the…
Hello, got stopped today for rolling a stop sign. Ticket says failure to stop, but quotes hta 1361b.
Doesn't 1361b mean failure to yield?
Is this a fatal error? Or could it be amended at trial. How can I prepare a defence if I don't know if I'm defending the failure to stop or the failure to yield?
After he was providing me with a ticket for failure to obey to the stop sign (I am pretty sure I stopped but less than 3 seconds recommended by my driver ed. instructor), I know everybody say that..as an excuse.
Then he stopped me again to return the documents.
Any advice and feed back would be really appreciated.
Can you get evidence for whether someone had an advanced green at an intersection? My dad was making a right turn on a red (after stopping) into a plaza parking lot. He got hit by someone making a left turn from the opposite lane. The driver told the officer called to the collision that he had an advance green. My dad said he came out of nowhere which makes me…
So i was driving on Eglinton Avenue East near Rosemount Ave.
The school bus was on the the curb on the opposite side of the road while i was travelling on the middle lane of the three-laned Eglinton Avenue East (five lanes apart plus a raised median island seperating the traffic)
I could not see the school bus as my view of the bus was being obstructed by the cars in front of me and on my left hand…
Lots of good information on getting disclosure from the Crown here.
Now, I am just wondering if I will be relying upon evidence of my own at trial... do I have to voluntarily send this material to the Crown in a reasonable time before the trial, or only if they request disclosure from me?
This morning I had an exam for university. I was studying the entire night and i wanted to catch like maybe 1-2 hours of sleep before the exam so i went to sleep. I woke up like 5 hrs after and realize that I was about to miss my exam. I still could have made it so I asked my dad for his car since I was in a huge rush and he gave it to me.
I went on the highway and I was going at 135 km/h but…
the police officer was in in the opesite oncumming lane he was fallowing another car so close that i was not even able to see his cruser till he was buy he said that i was going 111 in a 80 he said he hade me on radar he only asked for me drivers licencs and never asked for my insurence so on the ticket there no insurence dose enyone think i can beat this i wana take it to cort becuse he was…
Hi I have a couple questions so I'll explain my situation and any advice would be appreciated.
Can't remember exact date so lets call it some time in 2008 I got a fine for $5000.00 for driving without in insurance. I never paid the fine and in 2012 I was pulled over and the officer asked to see my license. Although I had it on me I figured it would be under suspension for the unpaid fine from…
Alright, so I did something really stupid the other day, I was driving down a country road and wanted to hit the curves so I passed 3 cars at once, inadvertently making it up to very much past 50 over (80 limit)... Much to my chagrin there was a cop coming in the opposite direction who immediately skidded on the gravel shoulder and who I thought was 100% going to turn around and pull me over,…
Anyone know how backed this courthouse is? I submitted my ticket for trial at the end of August, and still no letter. Im scared it got lost in the mail, can i call the courthouse and find out my courtdate? Or would i have to go in personally?
I recently received a ticket for failure to use low beams - while following - Ticket was issued Sec 168 (
- it was on the 401 and no one was within 500 meters of me, I was warning a oncoming vehicle that there was an officer hiding (which is not illegal or I could not find a law against it) it was a police vehicle travelling at very high rate of speed in the opposite direction with no lights on…
I received a warning letter from MTO for a 2pts ticket.What happened is that the police officer issued a "unsafe left turn" and then changed the ticket to "failed to signal" at the scene, but she submitted both tickets!!! And I !!!ONLY!!! received the latter ticket from her(I requested trial for "failed to signal"). I recently received notice from MTO that I'm convicted for "unsafe left turn".
Hello everyone! I was given a ticket for using a hand-held communication device while driving. It was 3 am, I was at a stop light and the cop saw me with the my phone in my hand. I told him i was just checking the time on it. I received the notes a few weeks ago ill copy them down below. Any help is appreciated although i believe there's no hope for me. The cop recorded me saying what phone i…
I got pulled over about 15 or so days ago the court till this date has not received the summons what is the legal time period that the court has to follow to accept the summons from the office court says its 15 days is the legal timeframe the officer has to serve it on the court
I requested for disclosure of information two months ago.
I received the radar manual after one month, but not others (including maintenance/calibration record of the radar, certificate of police training). On further pursuit, the prosecutor told me that he did not have them and he did not see why I needed these documents. He said he did not know where to get them when I asked.
Last Friday I was pulled over by an OPP motorcycle cop who informed me I was going 134. I was on the SB 404, I did see him parked under a bridge and when I passed him he was not on his bike.
I'm hoping to get some insight for a defense in this case.
I was in lane 1 and I had a car in front of me, and a car behind me, also there was a car speeding down Lane 3 passing everyone and moved quickly into…
