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Fatal Error on the Ticket

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inbini

Posted: Fri Nov 13, 2009 12:38 am

Joined: Thu Nov 12, 2009 12:21 am
Posts: 9

Can anyone please list all errors that are considered to be fatal (invalid ticket)? I think this will be a great sticky.

I have a ticket that does not indicate any chapter and section. It just says "Proceed contrary to sign at intersection" and just says HTA in the "contrary to" section. Can anyone tell me if this is a fatal error? I believe it is.

So I can start here.

1. MISPELLED NAME error is NOT fatal.
2. WRONG CAR YEAR is NOT fatal.

... anyone else? :wink:

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Radar Identified

Posted: Sat Nov 14, 2009 1:49 pm

Joined: Mon Sep 08, 2008 8:26 pm
Posts: 2536
Location: Toronto

Fatal Errors:

- Defendant name missing
- Missing offence or an offence not known to law
- Missing date
- Missing offence location
- Missing officer signature if it is NOT an electronic ticket
- Incorrect set fine and/or total payable (one report says this is no longer the case... currently waiting for confirmation of case law or legislative change)

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OPS Copper

Posted: Sun Nov 15, 2009 7:41 pm

Joined: Thu Aug 27, 2009 10:06 pm
Posts: 193

Tickets do not have a vehicle year...that year is the Permit year and not vehicle year.

GS

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hwybear

Posted: Sun Nov 15, 2009 10:21 pm

Joined: Tue Apr 22, 2008 7:21 am
Posts: 2763
Location: In YOUR rearview mirror!

OPS Copper wrote:

Tickets do not have a vehicle year...that year is the Permit year and not vehicle year.

GS

and the newer tickets do not have a spot for the year or make :wink:

_________________
Above is merely a suggestion/thought and in no way constitutes legal advice or views of my employer. www.OHTA.ca

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Radar Identified

Posted: Mon Nov 16, 2009 1:02 am

Joined: Mon Sep 08, 2008 8:26 pm
Posts: 2536
Location: Toronto

One other thing to add... wrong set fine/total payable only becomes a fatal error if the defendant fails to respond to the ticket or appear for trial. Appear for trial and the ticket can be amended by the JP.

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fatal errors

maskman

Posted: Sun Jan 24, 2010 8:19 pm

Joined: Fri May 08, 2009 10:13 am
Posts: 1

Radar Identified wrote:

Where is the authority that describes the fatal errors mentioned? Especially the offence not known error.

Thank you

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Fatal Errors on Traffic Tickets

OTTLegal

Posted: Mon Jan 25, 2010 8:17 am

Joined: Sat Oct 03, 2009 8:25 pm
Posts: 91
Location: Toronto

They are not fatal errors,

examples of fatal errors

Officer name not on ticket
Date wrong on ticket
Name totally missing on ticket
Location not on ticket
City or municipality missing on ticket

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Radar Identified

Posted: Mon Jan 25, 2010 2:32 pm

Joined: Mon Sep 08, 2008 8:26 pm
Posts: 2536
Location: Toronto

maskman wrote:

Where is the authority that describes the fatal errors mentioned? Especially the offence not known error.

Basically precedent. Let's say you got a ticket that says you were charged under s. 128 and the act was "Driving Too Fast for Conditions." While we all understand what that means, it is not "known to law." There is no act/section that is specifically "driving too fast for conditions" in Ontario, particularly if you are driving at/under the posted limit. You could get:

- Careless Driving, s. 130; or
- Speeding, s. 128 (at a rate of speed higher than the maximum limit)

But s. 128 deals with speeding only, so a rate of speed higher than the posted limit in effect at the time must be specified. Under those circumstances, the ticket would be quashed. Another example would be "speeding 20 km/h in a 60 km/h zone." Well in that case, the act specified was that you were driving under the speed limit - that is not an offence known to law. Same deal, it prejudices the defendant and if you followed the "default procedure," either the ticket would be tossed or quashed on appeal. Here's a case that describes some of the requirements on the ticket:

R. v. Hargan, 2009

And to quote the Justice in that case:

Quote:

Livingstone J. in R. .v Wilson, [2001] O.J. No. 4907 (Ont. C.J.) considered that in order for a certificate of offence to be “regular on its face” it must set out:
i) who is commencing the process – an informant;
ii) who is charged under the process – name of the defendant;
iii) what the process is – statute and section number;
iv) where and when the allegation arose; and
v) what the result will be from a conviction from the process – set fine amount.

_________________
* The above is NOT legal advice. By acting on anything I have said, you assume responsibility for any outcome and consequences. *
http://www.OntarioTicket.com OR http://www.OHTA.ca

Last edited by Radar Identified on Wed Feb 03, 2010 9:20 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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hwybear

Posted: Mon Jan 25, 2010 4:13 pm

Joined: Tue Apr 22, 2008 7:21 am
Posts: 2763
Location: In YOUR rearview mirror!

Radar Identified wrote:

[. Another example would be "speeding 20 km/h in a 60 km/h zone." Well in that case, the act specified was that you were driving under the speed limit - that is not an offence known to law.

Well, ok, um....well WHAT IF it said "Driving too slowly - to wit 20km/hr in a posted 60km/hr zone" HTA 132 and the fine was $85 and totalling $110 ???

_________________
Above is merely a suggestion/thought and in no way constitutes legal advice or views of my employer. www.OHTA.ca

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Radar Identified

Posted: Mon Jan 25, 2010 5:15 pm

Joined: Mon Sep 08, 2008 8:26 pm
Posts: 2536
Location: Toronto

hwybear wrote:

Well, ok, um....well WHAT IF it said "Driving too slowly - to wit 20km/hr in a posted 60km/hr zone"

Well, um in that case it would be an offence that IS known to law.

_________________
* The above is NOT legal advice. By acting on anything I have said, you assume responsibility for any outcome and consequences. *
http://www.OntarioTicket.com OR http://www.OHTA.ca

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hwybear

Posted: Mon Jan 25, 2010 9:40 pm

Joined: Tue Apr 22, 2008 7:21 am
Posts: 2763
Location: In YOUR rearview mirror!

Radar Identified wrote:

hwybear wrote:

Well, ok, um....well WHAT IF it said "Driving too slowly - to wit 20km/hr in a posted 60km/hr zone"

Well, um in that case it would be an offence that IS known to law.

k...I just wanted to ask a "what if" :lol:

_________________
Above is merely a suggestion/thought and in no way constitutes legal advice or views of my employer. www.OHTA.ca

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Radar Identified

Posted: Wed Jan 27, 2010 4:51 pm

Joined: Mon Sep 08, 2008 8:26 pm
Posts: 2536
Location: Toronto

Actually, come to think of it, shouldn't it be "Unnecessary Slow Driving, to wit 20 km/h in a 60 km/h zone," to be technically accurate?

_________________
* The above is NOT legal advice. By acting on anything I have said, you assume responsibility for any outcome and consequences. *
http://www.OntarioTicket.com OR http://www.OHTA.ca

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hwybear

Posted: Wed Jan 27, 2010 10:05 pm

Joined: Tue Apr 22, 2008 7:21 am
Posts: 2763
Location: In YOUR rearview mirror!

Radar Identified wrote:

Actually, come to think of it, shouldn't it be "Unnecessary Slow Driving, to wit 20 km/h in a 60 km/h zone," to be technically accurate?

short form wordings do not need to be exact as long as it describes the offence as per section charged.

_________________
Above is merely a suggestion/thought and in no way constitutes legal advice or views of my employer. www.OHTA.ca

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bob-boy

Posted: Tue Mar 23, 2010 12:42 am

Joined: Tue Mar 23, 2010 12:36 am
Posts: 3

what if the speed limit is posted at 70km but the ticket said 60km?
would the ticket be wrong?

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Reflections

Posted: Tue Mar 23, 2010 10:52 am

Joined: Fri Apr 11, 2008 2:49 pm
Posts: 1455
Location: somewhere in traffic

bob-boy wrote:

what if the speed limit is posted at 70km but the ticket said 60km?
would the ticket be wrong?

Yes the ticket is wrong, but you will have to prove it.

_________________
http://www.OHTA.ca OR http://www.OntarioTrafficAct.com

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Board index » General Talk - Discuss General Traffic Related Topics Here! » General Talk

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