Hello, I received a red light camera ticket today and I really need advice on how to proceed forward. Let me first explain what happened. I was on the right most lane and was driving about 45 Km/h. As I was approaching the intersection, there was a truck on the left side of me, so I couldn't see the traffic light on the left and there was a jeep in front of me and I couldn't see the traffic light for majority of the time. By the time i was able to look at the traffic light, I saw it turn from yellow to red and I had about 2-3 seconds to reach the white line for stopping. But considering my speed and the fact that it had been raining, I didn't stop and passed the red light fearing that I would stop in the middle of the intersection. I don't know how strong my case is. I have never received any ticket and my driving record is clean. Please advise. I am also attaching my ticket for more information. http://i1249.photobucket.com/albums/hh5 ... v1ejyg.jpg
Hello,
I received a red light camera ticket today and I really need advice on how to proceed forward.
Let me first explain what happened.
I was on the right most lane and was driving about 45 Km/h. As I was approaching the intersection, there was a truck on the left side of me, so I couldn't see the traffic light on the left and there was a jeep in front of me and I couldn't see the traffic light for majority of the time. By the time i was able to look at the traffic light, I saw it turn from yellow to red and I had about 2-3 seconds to reach the white line for stopping. But considering my speed and the fact that it had been raining, I didn't stop and passed the red light fearing that I would stop in the middle of the intersection.
I don't know how strong my case is. I have never received any ticket and my driving record is clean.
Please advise. I am also attaching my ticket for more information.
Not to sound harsh, but driving oblivious is not a defense. Also, it's an absolute liability offense. That means you either did or didn't drive through the red light. There's no middle ground. Luckily, red light camera tickets are glorified parking tickets. You can try to have the fine reduced or just pay it and move on. There's nothing more to these tickets. They don't know who was driving so they send it to the owner of the plates. It has nothing to do with your license. They are also impossible to beat. Sometimes you just have to pick your battles. Example, an honest paralegal wont even touch red light camera tickets. Since there's no insurance or license implications, it's cheaper to just pay it.
itsagam wrote:
I don't know how strong my case is. I have never received any ticket and my driving record is clean.
Not to sound harsh, but driving oblivious is not a defense. Also, it's an absolute liability offense. That means you either did or didn't drive through the red light. There's no middle ground.
Luckily, red light camera tickets are glorified parking tickets. You can try to have the fine reduced or just pay it and move on. There's nothing more to these tickets. They don't know who was driving so they send it to the owner of the plates. It has nothing to do with your license. They are also impossible to beat. Sometimes you just have to pick your battles.
Example, an honest paralegal wont even touch red light camera tickets. Since there's no insurance or license implications, it's cheaper to just pay it.
These are not impossible to beat, but would require hiring a paralegal AND hiring an expert witness that can testify about the problems with these devices, so most likely the cost to fight it is going to be more than just paying the ticket. Since the ticket is charged to the OWNER of the vehicle (not the driver), there are no demerits and no insurance implications to worry about so the only cost is the fine itself. You should plead NOT GUILTY and request a trial with the officer present. Once you get the Notice of Trial, then you can request disclosure (officers notes, make/model of device). Then show up for trial date and if officer is not there then ask for ticket to be withdrawn. If officer is there, then ask about a reduction in fine. Worst case is the fine does not get lowered and you pay original fine, and best case is that you get it reduced further.
These are not impossible to beat, but would require hiring a paralegal AND hiring an expert witness that can testify about the problems with these devices, so most likely the cost to fight it is going to be more than just paying the ticket.
Since the ticket is charged to the OWNER of the vehicle (not the driver), there are no demerits and no insurance implications to worry about so the only cost is the fine itself.
You should plead NOT GUILTY and request a trial with the officer present. Once you get the Notice of Trial, then you can request disclosure (officers notes, make/model of device). Then show up for trial date and if officer is not there then ask for ticket to be withdrawn. If officer is there, then ask about a reduction in fine. Worst case is the fine does not get lowered and you pay original fine, and best case is that you get it reduced further.
I am not a lawyer and I am not a paralegal and I do not give legal advice.
All statements made are my opinion only.
Paralegals don't deal with red light tickets as is, let alone billing additional hours on top of that. What officer? No officer needs to be present. There are no notes. Again, what officer?
ShrekTek wrote:
These are not impossible to beat, but would require hiring a paralegal AND hiring an expert witness that can testify about the problems with these device
Paralegals don't deal with red light tickets as is, let alone billing additional hours on top of that.
ShrekTek wrote:
request a trial with the officer present.
What officer? No officer needs to be present.
ShrekTek wrote:
you can request disclosure (officers notes, make/model of device).
There are no notes.
ShrekTek wrote:
Then show up for trial date and if officer is not there then ask for ticket to be withdrawn.
So should I select option 1, go to trial and try requesting a reduction of the fine ?
bend wrote:
Not to sound harsh, but driving oblivious is not a defense. Also, it's an absolute liability offense. That means you either did or didn't drive through the red light. There's no middle ground.
Luckily, red light camera tickets are glorified parking tickets. You can try to have the fine reduced or just pay it and move on. There's nothing more to these tickets. They don't know who was driving so they send it to the owner of the plates. It has nothing to do with your license. They are also impossible to beat. Sometimes you just have to pick your battles.
Example, an honest paralegal wont even touch red light camera tickets. Since there's no insurance or license implications, it's cheaper to just pay it.
So should I select option 1, go to trial and try requesting a reduction of the fine ?
An officer MUST review the pictures and sign that they beleive the charge is correct and that they believe the camera system was in proper working order, so this officer MUST come to trial to testify to this information. They may not have any notes regarding the event, but they still must sign the ticket and that means they need to appear in court if you ask for a trial. You should read the regulation on red light cameras: https://www.ontario.ca/laws/regulation/990277 Consider is that Section 4 (1) of the regulation, it says the officer needs to serve you (by mail is fine) within 23 days of the offence. According to the ticket, what is the deemed service date? On the surface this deemed service date may seem okay, however I would cross-exam the officer on this point. Did the officer put the notice in an enevelope himself, put a stamp on it himself, and then place it in a Canada Post mailing box himself? If he simply signed it but then left it for somebody else to mail, then how does he know what day is was mailed? The section says that you may be served when the officer "sending the offence notice by regular prepaid mail or courier". I would argue that unless the officer put the letter in the mail box himself (or took it to the post office himself) how can he know for sure that it was "mailed" on a specific day for sure? It is certainly possible that the person who mails them out had it sitting around on their desk for a few days before they got to the post office. Also consider cross-examining the officer on the what it says at the bottom of the ticket in the PLEASE NOTE section. "The Provincial Offences Officer has certified that the red light camera system used in the detection of this offence ... was in proper working order ... traffic signals were in proper working order". So this would bring up questions like "Officer did you go out and test this system? How did you test? When did you test? How do you know it can accurately measure speed of moving vehicle? How do you know traffic lights were working properly that day? Did you observe them?" If the officer does not provide any notes for disclosure, then how can they testify that they know it was in proper working order? If you call around to various paralegals, you will eventually find one that would be willing to take it. Can they win? Maybe, maybe not. I would suggest you ask for trial and ask for disclosure (officers notes) and see what you get. If you get nothing with regards to "proper working order" of the system, then you have a good chance to beat it. But again, you need to find a paralegal that is good at cross-examination or do it yourself. Alternatively, ask for the trial and then show up and talk to prosecutor about reduced fine.
An officer MUST review the pictures and sign that they beleive the charge is correct and that they believe the camera system was in proper working order, so this officer MUST come to trial to testify to this information. They may not have any notes regarding the event, but they still must sign the ticket and that means they need to appear in court if you ask for a trial.
You should read the regulation on red light cameras:
Consider is that Section 4 (1) of the regulation, it says the officer needs to serve you (by mail is fine) within 23 days of the offence. According to the ticket, what is the deemed service date? On the surface this deemed service date may seem okay, however I would cross-exam the officer on this point. Did the officer put the notice in an enevelope himself, put a stamp on it himself, and then place it in a Canada Post mailing box himself? If he simply signed it but then left it for somebody else to mail, then how does he know what day is was mailed? The section says that you may be served when the officer "sending the offence notice by regular prepaid mail or courier". I would argue that unless the officer put the letter in the mail box himself (or took it to the post office himself) how can he know for sure that it was "mailed" on a specific day for sure? It is certainly possible that the person who mails them out had it sitting around on their desk for a few days before they got to the post office.
Also consider cross-examining the officer on the what it says at the bottom of the ticket in the PLEASE NOTE section. "The Provincial Offences Officer has certified that the red light camera system used in the detection of this offence ... was in proper working order ... traffic signals were in proper working order". So this would bring up questions like "Officer did you go out and test this system? How did you test? When did you test? How do you know it can accurately measure speed of moving vehicle? How do you know traffic lights were working properly that day? Did you observe them?"
If the officer does not provide any notes for disclosure, then how can they testify that they know it was in proper working order?
If you call around to various paralegals, you will eventually find one that would be willing to take it. Can they win? Maybe, maybe not. I would suggest you ask for trial and ask for disclosure (officers notes) and see what you get. If you get nothing with regards to "proper working order" of the system, then you have a good chance to beat it. But again, you need to find a paralegal that is good at cross-examination or do it yourself. Alternatively, ask for the trial and then show up and talk to prosecutor about reduced fine.
I am not a lawyer and I am not a paralegal and I do not give legal advice.
All statements made are my opinion only.
Just so you're aware, the Provincial Offence Officer who certifies, does NOT have to appear in court just because you want them there. You're not likely to get a JP to order the appearance. As per the HTA: Challenge to officers evidence 205.20 (1) The provincial offences officer who used the evidence obtained through the use of a red light camera system to identify the owner or driver of the vehicle involved in the alleged offence and who issued the offence notice and certificate of offence shall not be required to give oral evidence at trial unless a summons requiring the officer to attend is issued at trial under section 39 of the Provincial Offences Act. 1998, c. 38, s. 4. Same (2) A provincial offences officer who certifies that a photograph was obtained through the use of a red light camera system shall not be required to give oral evidence at trial unless a summons requiring the officer to attend is issued at trial under section 39 of the Provincial Offences Act. 1998, c. 38, s. 4. Summons (3) No summons shall be issued to a provincial offences officer referred to in subsection (1) or (2) unless a justice is satisfied that the defendant will not be able to have a fair trial if the officer is not required to give oral evidence. 1998, c. 38, s. 4.
Just so you're aware, the Provincial Offence Officer who certifies, does NOT have to appear in court just because you want them there. You're not likely to get a JP to order the appearance.
As per the HTA:
Challenge to officers evidence
205.20 (1) The provincial offences officer who used the evidence obtained through the use of a red light camera system to identify the owner or driver of the vehicle involved in the alleged offence and who issued the offence notice and certificate of offence shall not be required to give oral evidence at trial unless a summons requiring the officer to attend is issued at trial under section 39 of the Provincial Offences Act. 1998, c. 38, s. 4.
Same
(2) A provincial offences officer who certifies that a photograph was obtained through the use of a red light camera system shall not be required to give oral evidence at trial unless a summons requiring the officer to attend is issued at trial under section 39 of the Provincial Offences Act. 1998, c. 38, s. 4.
Summons
(3) No summons shall be issued to a provincial offences officer referred to in subsection (1) or (2) unless a justice is satisfied that the defendant will not be able to have a fair trial if the officer is not required to give oral evidence. 1998, c. 38, s. 4.
Well okay so you will have to ask JP for a summons to get officer to court. You need to say that you want to cross examine the officer on their statement that the camera was in proper working order and the lights were in proper working order. If you received notes in disclosure then you can say that based on the notes you want to question them on this. If you did NOT receive any notes for disclsosure then even better because you can say that the fact that no notes were provided regarding how the officer knows the device was in working order, means you should be allowed to cross-examine them on this issue. How can you have a fair trial if you are not allowed to cross-examine the officer on their statement that the camera system and lights were working properly at the time?
Well okay so you will have to ask JP for a summons to get officer to court. You need to say that you want to cross examine the officer on their statement that the camera was in proper working order and the lights were in proper working order. If you received notes in disclosure then you can say that based on the notes you want to question them on this. If you did NOT receive any notes for disclsosure then even better because you can say that the fact that no notes were provided regarding how the officer knows the device was in working order, means you should be allowed to cross-examine them on this issue.
How can you have a fair trial if you are not allowed to cross-examine the officer on their statement that the camera system and lights were working properly at the time?
I am not a lawyer and I am not a paralegal and I do not give legal advice.
All statements made are my opinion only.
If you would like to plea bargain for a lower fine then select option 1 and request a trial. You can meet with the prosecutor on the day of your trial and see if they are willing to offer you a reduced fine. While there are no guarantees, it is very likely that prosecutor will be willing to reduce your fine in exchange for a guilty plea.
itsagam wrote:
So should I select option 1, go to trial and try requesting a reduction of the fine ?
If you would like to plea bargain for a lower fine then select option 1 and request a trial. You can meet with the prosecutor on the day of your trial and see if they are willing to offer you a reduced fine. While there are no guarantees, it is very likely that prosecutor will be willing to reduce your fine in exchange for a guilty plea.
just my IMHO there's a saying "if you can't do the time, don't do the crime" Jumping red lights are dangerous, I was in a tbone, because the other driver did just this, so my perspective is fairly harsh on this. When driving you should be 100%, actually 110%, your concentration should be on driving. As already stated, it's a glorified parking ticket. If you did it,,fess up, pay the fine, your going to try and fight a red light ticket (with the advise already given) you could have injured yourself or another and ALSO got a ticket for that.
just my IMHO
there's a saying "if you can't do the time, don't do the crime"
Jumping red lights are dangerous, I was in a tbone, because the other driver did just this, so my perspective is fairly harsh on this.
When driving you should be 100%, actually 110%, your concentration should be on driving.
As already stated, it's a glorified parking ticket.
If you did it,,fess up, pay the fine, your going to try and fight a red light ticket (with the advise already given)
you could have injured yourself or another and ALSO got a ticket for that.
itsagam wrote:
Hello,
I received a red light camera ticket today and I really need advice on how to proceed forward.
Let me first explain what happened.
I was on the right most lane and was driving about 45 Km/h. As I was approaching the intersection, there was a truck on the left side of me, so I couldn't see the traffic light on the left and there was a jeep in front of me and I couldn't see the traffic light for majority of the time. By the time i was able to look at the traffic light, I saw it turn from yellow to red and I had about 2-3 seconds to reach the white line for stopping. But considering my speed and the fact that it had been raining, I didn't stop and passed the red light fearing that I would stop in the middle of the intersection.
I don't know how strong my case is. I have never received any ticket and my driving record is clean.
Please advise. I am also attaching my ticket for more information.
--------------------------------------------------------------
* NO you cant touch your phone
* Speeding is speeding
* Challenge every ticket
* Impaired driving, you should be locked up UNDER the jail
Not to sound harsh, but driving oblivious is not a defense. Also, it's an absolute liability offense. That means you either did or didn't drive through the red light. There's no middle ground. Preaching to the choir ;)
bend wrote:
itsagam wrote:
I don't know how strong my case is. I have never received any ticket and my driving record is clean.
Not to sound harsh, but driving oblivious is not a defense. Also, it's an absolute liability offense. That means you either did or didn't drive through the red light. There's no middle ground.
Preaching to the choir
--------------------------------------------------------------
* NO you cant touch your phone
* Speeding is speeding
* Challenge every ticket
* Impaired driving, you should be locked up UNDER the jail
I have a problem and not sure what the hell to do about it. Few days ago I was stopped on a street going westbound against blinding afternoon sun following the flow of traffic. I drive a taxi for living in Toronto and have ACZ driver's license. I have a perfect record both for professional as well regular demerit points. I haven't been pulled over as a matter of fact in some 15 years for…
I have recently gone to court for a speeding ticket issued by an OPP officer. As it stood, the officer forgot to sign the ticket. So at my trial, before I made a plea, I pointed this out to the justice of the peace and asked that the ticket be quashed. I was asked to produce my copy of the ticket, which I gave and the JOP then agreed with me and dismissed the case. Before he did so, the…
I got pulled over (along with about 10 other cars) for going through a road closed sign. I had just pulled out of a parking lot pretty much right beside the road closed sign, and with about 4 cars behind me there wasn't much I could do but go through, so I think I have a good chance of fighting it. However, on my ticket under the Signature of issuing Provincial Offences Officer, it's left…
So here's my situation, any advice would be appreciated.
On June 26, 2013 I received a ticket for 25 over in a 60 zone
In early October I received my notice of trial (Feb 25, 2014)
In early January I sent in my request for disclosure
In late January I received a letter to pick up my disclosure, however when I picked up my disclosure it wasn't typed (I had requested it to be) and I needed…
Is there a legal requirement to report an accident to the insurer?
Scenario
- 2 vehicle accident
- each vehicle has less than $1000 damage
- each vehicle has damage roughly equal to insurance deductible
- a police Accident Report was completed
In this scenario the drivers decided to repair their own damages. But are they legally bound to report the accident and damages to the insurer? ...and out of…
I will be representing my wife at her speeding trial next week. Mostly everything is pretty much run of the mill but since she wasn't speeding we will be having her take the stand. Since this opens up the opportunity for the prosecutor to cross examine, I am just wondering if anyone here knows what kind of questions we should expect from the prosecutor in order to best prepare.
i got pulled over by a cop this morning in my kids's school zone for failure to stop at a stop sign. i am thinking of fighting this ticket, but i noticed that on the ticket itself it only says "disobey stop sign - fail to stop" and there is no mention of the demerit points. a co-worker mentioned to me that a ticket should state how many demerit points i am being docked. i know the Highway Traffic…
Alright, so this happened back awhile ago on June and I haven't appeared in Court. However, I would like some inputs and advice before I get into this battle.
Back in June I got a Speeding Ticket claiming I was going 100km/h on Blackcreek going south towards Lawrence. The Speed Limit there is 70km/h.
At this point of time, it was roughly traffic hour around 4-5PM. Coming off of the Highway, and…
Ive already done searches, read the act as best i can but still haven't read a complete answer. Where in the HTA does it state that the front license plate must be attached to the front bumper? I have it on the passenger sun visor (if ppl remember the old temp permits that taped to the pass side of windshield) i figured that this spot would be the same. However now they have got rid of…
My son was returning from school and was just entering the driveway when another vehicle hit the rear end. Police writes a ticket "fail to yield from private drive" 139(i). He is going to fight this ticket and made an application for disclosure. The trial is next week and he still hasn't received the disclosure.
He checked with the court last month and they said that they will call when disclosure…
i was travelling on the 401 (posted speed 100km/h) in the far left lane, when i caught up to a vehicle going ~110km/h. I patiently waited for the vehicle to move over a lane, but they did not. The vehicle behind me moved to the center lane to pass, but because he was a safe distance behind me, i moved into the middle lane ahead of him to pass the slower moving car. When I accelerated, i…
So I was returning from my honeymoon in Montreal, and was cruising down the 401 just inside the Ontario/Quebec border. I was passing one of the Onroute stations and saw an OPP cruiser. I checked my speed and I was doing 120. A few kilometers up the road the cruiser pulled me over and told me I was clocked doing 132 by the aircraft. I was a little surprised to see the ticket was for the full…
I made a right turn during prohibited hours (7am-6pm) in Toronto. I was ticketed by a COP who was specially watching for that trap.
After I've received the ticket HTA144(9), I discovered one of the seven digits of my license plate was incorrectly written on my ticket. I was thinking about to make a First Attendance at the court office to see the prosecutor for a reduced charge...any advice or…
Have been busy and haven't had much time to follow up on this...
Went to court having not received disclosure (and was not organized enough to apply for a stay), so the trial was adjourned. They photocopied the officer's ticket and notes and provided a log sheet from the plane. I've sent another request for the rest of the disclosure items.
So here's my question -- can an officer amend the ticket…
I am not sure if my case is really a case of " mis-use parking permit" and need some advises on whether i should fight the ticket. Here is what happened:
During the labor day long weekend, I took my parents to diner at a local shopping mall. (my father's hip was broken in 2016 and he's been on wheelchair since, the permit is in his name and I been using the permit to help him for doctor's…
I have a court date coming up where I need to subpoena one of the officers that was present when I got my ticket. The issuing officer didn't include the fact that the second one was present at the time in his report (disclosure) but did give me the second officers name and badge number after the judge told him to do it.
What I'm looking for help with is the process of me getting to…
I got pulled over on a 4 lane section fo Highway 7... Thank god I didn't get a stay at home ticket as well or my car impounded.
Officer clocked me at 156 km/h he decided not to impound my car and give me a 149 km/h since it was my first offence and he said I was polite and respectful. I would give this officer a 5/5 review if I could, very polite and respectful.
Long story short, I was driving from Toronto to Ottawa and around Napanee with my friend in two separated cars, the officer was parked on uturn. He followed us turn his light on and got between us and pulled us over, he told me that i was running at 152 km/h without showing me his LISAR. they suspended my and my friends license and impounded the two cars for 7 days. This was a Friday in January…
I'm unsure on what to do here. I was under the impression that I could request a stay on the day of trial because disclosure was not given to me in an adequate time. I requested disclosure 2x by fax, 5 months ago.
I read on ticketcombat that I had to file a motion 15 days prior to the trial to request a stay of proceedings.
Does anyone else get blinded by fog lights on rural roads? I don't seem to have a problem with them on lighted streets, but the badly aimed fog lights or ones with a poor cutoff really get to me when driving the Escort. I just came back from a 20-minute drive, and every single pickup truck had fog lights on, and forced me to focus on the bottom right of the road. My windshield is clean and…
