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Ontario Highway Traffic Act

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PostPosted: Tue Jan 27, 2009 12:21 pm 
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I thought it because you hate the traffic as much as the rest of us...... but if it's only for the donuts............ :shock:

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PostPosted: Tue Jan 27, 2009 8:01 pm 
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Haha hey i heard that during rush hour in the evening everyone is on the road so they cant get to Tim's and they start making a fresh batch of doughnuts.....

Hey i wonder if cops get special deals at tim hortons or some kind of preferred customer card.

Anyways that was a joke but i did hear many small cofee and donought shops like the regular presence of police as it makes the place feel safer to workers and the customers, less chance someone will try to rob the place or commit crimes such as drug deals there.

Hey is that Detachment in chatam-kent just a Highway Safety Division or does chatam-kent have their own police department.

I am sure the London OPP is a highway safety detachment as a city the size of london must have their own police force for sure.....


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PostPosted: Tue Jan 27, 2009 8:06 pm 
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tdrive2 wrote:
Haha hey i heard that during rush hour in the evening everyone is on the road so they cant get to Tim's and they start making a fresh batch of doughnuts.....

Hey i wonder if cops get special deals at tim hortons or some kind of preferred customer card.

Anyways that was a joke but i did hear many small cofee and donought shops like the regular presence of police as it makes the place feel safer to workers and the customers, less chance someone will try to rob the place or commit crimes such as drug deals there.


From what I understand, the police are offered coffee (and doughnuts maybe) as a courtesy by most businesses. This is a 'thank you' from the business owners, and allows the officers to stay alert and do their jobs. I think it's common practice everywhere, but for like actual food and stuff, I've seen officers (at least locally here) pay for their stuff.

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PostPosted: Tue Jan 27, 2009 8:12 pm 
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Secondly hwybear i know i may have seem to given you a hassle but i very much appreciate your responses, high ways mean alot of me and i like to hear the perspective of officers. I am not taking out anger or anything out on you it isnt like the officers set limits or laws. So sorry if you got the impression i hate all officers or dislike you.

Secondly with your argument on bad drives. Ill say this much i agree and disagree. Within the GTA i am going to agree with you. We get a ton of new immigrants from different countries and all kinds of driving habits mix. Secondly perhaps lack of enforcement and people seem to think the only bad thing on the highway is speeding causes alot of issues. But again there is only so much money that can be allocated to highway enforcement. Also i am sure the licensing system in the GTA is crowded.

I dont know to respond about your thing about how drivers have not improved. I do have this much to say, most of the modern world travels at much higher speeds on their highways with more traffic and worse quality roads and they live to tell the tale. The highways in England, France, Spain i hear, and especially the autobahn system in Germany are clear examples. There have been numerous studies in the states and on the autobahn that show there is no increased or decreased accidents with higher or no speed limit where it is marked.

Lastly ill admit this and i am sure many are guilty of this bad habbit. I know many friends and family that do the same and sure many others will admit. Distracted drivers are the biggest problem, and when i drive fast i cant be distracted. When i am driving at 50/60 km on the street in the city ill admit i will text, call people, eat a snack, at stop lights that take 2-3 mins i will search for things in my car i am terrible.

The more i drove on the highway i realized how slow 100 km/h was. I got bored, in traffic on the 401 moving at 80 k this is a joke. I pull out my blackberry check my emails call my family, bring a snack. But guess what when the traffic is really light and slow and i am going 130. I dont touch my phone, i dont touch my food, i dont do anything else except drive. The speed gets me a bit hyped up and i focus way more on driving. It is fun. I also know driving this much faster i must watch and pay attention on the road or else it might not turn out pretty.

So ill say i am a much better driver at higher speeds.


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PostPosted: Tue Jan 27, 2009 8:28 pm 
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One more argument i have about the current speed limit and the 50 over law.

It distorts what we should really be focusing on. The truth is improper lane etique, following the other rules of the road, and distracted drivers cause many more accidents and death then do these speeders who fantino seems label as hell. But we know politicians and they know you cant measure those things so they choose to focus on something that sounds politically correct and is measurable and can generate more money for them to spend at the good will of increasing the power of the state.

Firstly ill admit 50 k over the speed limit is dangerous. But 50 over on a local street and on a wide open 400 series highways is much different. Secondly going 150 isnt really 50 over. Its more like 20-30 over because everyone else is going 120-130 anyways when the road permits. So maybee some kind of fine that is like 175-200 km/h maybe ill agree to that as "dangerous driving" or "excessive speeding". but that doesn't permit the officer to be the judge, jury and executioner at the side of the road and be charged without the right to a fair trial.

A higher speed limit would fix alot of things. It would certainly get rid of alot of those going 110 in the passing lane and eliminate alot of road rage.



It would also give our officers a chance to focus on the drivers that cause the most danger, the ones that are going way less than the speed limit which don't belong on these roads, and the ones that are going way over the speed limit. It would also give the Police a real chance at finding all those aggressive drivers who tailgate and weave through lanes. Not all the annoyed drivers who always pass on the right and tailgate because someone doesn't understand lane etiquette.

Again higher limits would reduce volume as people would spend less time on the roads this would help in the GTA. This law would also not force people to break the law. try driving the limit on most 400 highways you cant because everyone will pass you or tailgate you. This causes a general dis regard for traffic laws.

Once someone thinks the speed limit is to low and doesn't care the only thing stopping them is an officer. Unfortunately they're aren't enough to stop these kind of drivers. One more problem. People say 50 over is nuts. The problem is Fantino and all the voters live in and around toronto. Most times on the 401 in toronto you can barely do 100. They dont care. Drive on 400 series highways in many other areas of this province it isnt hard to reach these speeds.

The 50 over law works and so do fines. But the second they are removed people will speed. People will drive what they feel acceptable. And right now thats about 120-130. And i think it would be nuts to call the general population in the province crazy, stupid, irresponsible, risky, and dangerous. Maybee for once does anything think the province or the government has it wrong.? Sure all these fines work but everyday i drive i see less people that care about the speed limit. Fines work but its like repelling gravity, the second they are not they're they will speed to a speed they feel acceptable, safe, and appropriate.

Some say many people are in favor of speeding laws or the 50 over law. Well alot of people will not admit to speeding and drive faster then they say.


People vote with there right foot everyday, Go drive on highway 400 south of Barrie early in the morning or late at night, you see them all the time. Just dont sit in the passing lane or youll get run over.


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PostPosted: Tue Jan 27, 2009 10:32 pm 
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tdrive2 wrote:
Lastly ill admit this and i am sure many are guilty of this bad habbit. I know many friends and family that do the same and sure many others will admit. Distracted drivers are the biggest problem, and when i drive fast i cant be distracted. When i am driving at 50/60 km on the street in the city ill admit i will text, call people, eat a snack, at stop lights that take 2-3 mins i will search for things in my car i am terrible.

The more i drove on the highway i realized how slow 100 km/h was. I got bored, in traffic on the 401 moving at 80 k this is a joke. I pull out my blackberry check my emails call my family, bring a snack. But guess what when the traffic is really light and slow and i am going 130. I dont touch my phone, i dont touch my food, i dont do anything else except drive. The speed gets me a bit hyped up and i focus way more on driving. It is fun. I also know driving this much faster i must watch and pay attention on the road or else it might not turn out pretty.


It's a good thing (for you) that we will not disclose any info about our visitors to anyone else, else you'd get a bonus interview with a really nice MTO official........

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PostPosted: Tue Jan 27, 2009 11:04 pm 
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Sorry if that thread was unacceptable if it is i will gladly edit it. I am just trying to point out that when drivers are forced to drive faster they are also forced to pay more attention to the road. Surely if you would take a trip on the authobahn you would not see anyone text messaging or emailing someone on a blackberry........ I would hope this is the case with drivers on the road or i really worry. But when i drive on slow city roads i see so many people doing other tasks. There is certainly less on the highway and even less with less traffic when the traffic is moving faster.


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PostPosted: Wed Jan 28, 2009 9:43 am 
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I agree with you "T" and get your point. It's very easy to "feel" like you can do other things when crawling along at a ridiculously slow pace. Society generally accepts distracted drivers, otherwise drive-through windows OF ANY SORT would be banned! Just sit and watch the exit to a Tim Hortons. Absolutely horrible stuff happens there.


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PostPosted: Wed Jan 28, 2009 3:37 pm 
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Hey guys i heard sometimes police wont use their flashers on unless theyre is alot of traffic because it can mean that if they have something urgent to attend to and its light traffic speeding without the lights people will just move right instead of freaking out.

Does that mean that hwybear uses his bright hid flashers in the drive thru line at Tim Hortons :lol:


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PostPosted: Wed Jan 28, 2009 3:38 pm 
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tdrive2 wrote:
Hey is that Detachment in chatam-kent just a Highway Safety Division or does chatam-kent have their own police department.

I am sure the London OPP is a highway safety detachment as a city the size of london must have their own police force for sure.....


West - East

Essex OPP patrol both the rural areas and Hwy 401, Hwy 3 and Hwy 77. (approx 120 officers) Pretty much once you get close to Windsor there will be Windsor Police, Lasalle Police, Amherstburg Police and Leamington Police.

Municipality of Chatham-Kent has it's own police service = Chatham-Kent Police. There is an OPP detachment in Chatham which only patrols Hwy 401 and Hwy 40. (approx 40 officers)

Elgin OPP have rural areas and Hwy 3 and Hwy 401. (approx 60 officers)

Middlesex OPP patrol Middlesex county.

There is a OPP traffic unit based out of London and Ingersoll. (approx 30 officers)

City of London, St. Thomas, Strathroy-Caradoc and Alymer all have own Police services.

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PostPosted: Wed Jan 28, 2009 4:25 pm 
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Ah well thanks hwybear that definately explains why those areas are so much more enforced then the ones around the GTA.

I am quite amazed that Chatam-kent has that many officers and just a Highway safety division i guess that is a really bad place to slow down. I guess that really explains why west of London people seem to drive so much slower......

I guess with those smaller towns to with less crime then the GTA and less traffic the officers probably spend alot of time on the highway. I know some of those towns are not to well off financially to and i am sure tickets bring in some needed revenue for the municipalities. Do the fines for the tickets and the court fines go right to the City or the Province?

I wonder if you guys get alot of 50 over drivers out there i see a ton on the 400 south of barrie.


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PostPosted: Wed Jan 28, 2009 5:40 pm 
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tdrive2 wrote:
I wonder if you guys get alot of 50 over drivers out there i see a ton on the 400 south of barrie.

Think maybe around 10-15 for the whole month for the complete detachment. That is a low percentage for the 24,000 vehicles that travel through per day.

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PostPosted: Wed Jan 28, 2009 9:12 pm 
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Wow actually that is very low i am quite surprised 10-15 for a whole month isnt to many and i your area has a pretty big presence on the 401.

hey hwybear just a quick question last week i noticed a bunch of Tahoe's on the roads. Why does the OPP use tahoes for? I assume Crown Vic's would be used for most things. The only thing i can think those big SUV's would add a benefit would be bringing back injured passengers from a car accident. I know they can go fast but in the event where you had to chase down a speeder who lets say is greatly exceeding the speed limit and causing danger wouldn't it be more dangerous to chase him in a large vehicle opposed to a crown vic or would you radio another officer in a car to get him?

Secondly just another thing i thought of. I was reading an article where they have said that OPP will sit on a bridge and check for radar and then message officers down the road to catch speeders. Is it the initial reading from the bridge to get the guy is what he is charged with or when the officer clocks it on his unit in the car?

Like lets say an officer is on a bridge and he catches someone going 145, but for what ever reason maybe traffic he slows down to 115 and by the time the officer in the car gets there he is only going 115.

What does the officer do? Does he pull him over for going 145, or does he now not give him a ticket (saying that 115 would be the grace limit and not worth the time lets say)?

Actually hwybear i remember you have posted times before that you had clocked drivers over the speed limit but maybee because of snow or for some other reason you could not have gotten him (maybee you were on route to a serious accident). Lets say you clock a driver for 135 but you need to attend the accident. Either he gets away or you would radio an officer down the road.

2 Things could happen. Either he is still speeding or he isnt. Now does the officer down the road clock him for the speed that you recorded? Or must this officer now clock him aswell and fine him based on the speed he clocks the driver at? Also how would this work if the driver again was speeding when you had clocked him but by the time he got to the next officer he was driving the limit? I know its kinda similar to the situation of using a laser gun on top of an overpass but i always wondered how these 2 situations work.

obviously in the case of a habitual speeder who keeps speeding the officer down the road would pull him over regardless but this ignores the fact that some people will speed and slow down or they wont stay at the same speed the whole time they are speeding.

Sorry for my questions but i have always been quite curious as to why highway enforcement would use large SUV's and does the speed you are charged with must be by the officer who pulls you over.


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PostPosted: Wed Jan 28, 2009 9:40 pm 
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Slyk wrote:
Any links to the case where the guy was going over 300, and how they caught him? That one sounds interesting!


Unfortunately all of the links I had were broken links. The CBC originally reported it on May 23, 2005, with the headline: "OPP reports weekend lunacy on roads." It was on the Victoria Day long weekend. They clocked a guy on the 400 at Canal Road going over 300 km/h. I'm going to dig the article up from the Toronto Star paid archives but I haven't got around to it yet.

tdrive2 wrote:
Wow actually that is very low i am quite surprised 10-15 for a whole month isnt to many and i your area has a pretty big presence on the 401.


I don't want to answer for hwybear, but people who go through "Bear Country" regularly know, more or less, where the OPP tend to hang out and adjust their speeds accordingly. So it's not that surprising that they don't catch that many people. Most locals in that area don't drive that fast and the ones who are from Toronto or Windsor and passing through the area slow down entering the area. Also drivers tend to flash their high beams a lot at oncoming traffic if they saw a cop to warn them to slow down. Beyond that, even if you don't know that the area is heavily patrolled, you can still slow down in time if you know where to look... like right around those bridge pillars. Just an observation.


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PostPosted: Thu Jan 29, 2009 9:14 pm 
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tdrive2 wrote:
Why does the OPP use tahoes for? I assume Crown Vic's would be used for most things.

Last I heard that the Crown Vic was going to be stopped being built by 2010. Alternative vehicles have to be found. Also considerations are in a
gov't tenders, where any automaker can bid to supply the vehicle, provided they have passed the pursuit rating from the Michigan State Police. The Crown Vic, Tahoe, Charger and Impala are all pursuit rated.
Tahoe is lowered 4 or 6 inches compared to a civilian one to prevent rolling at high speeds in corners.
Tahoe is very smooth, and is faster than the crown vic on low end and only 2km slower at top end.
Other considerations are the interior capacity, resale value of the vehicles, replacement kilometres vs maintenance etc.

The SUV is actually very effective, few people recognize it, don't slow down and blow by the SUV and even complete stupid moves. There is also a Ford F250 for enforcement, people always blow his doors off and its fully marked B&W

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OPP will sit on a bridge and check for radar and then message officers down the road to catch speeders. Is it the initial reading from the bridge to get the guy is what he is charged with or when the officer clocks it on his unit in the car?

The officer using the lidar or radar will obtain the speed of the vehicle and relay that information to the "intercept officer". Intercept officer will confirm the speed/vehicle and stop same. Even if the vehicle has slowed it is evidence from the orginal officer that is used.

If unable to catch a speeder and I call to another unit. The other unit can set up observation for the vehicle, but will have to use their own evidence of speed, if any to charge the driver. If the vehicle is seen not speeding it could still be stopped, advised of the previous clocking.

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