serious defence for serial ticketers.

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FyreStorm
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by: FyreStorm on
Wed Mar 24, 2010 7:39 pm

So you want to show yourself obeying the law?

What if it showed you breaking the law? Would you turn the tape over to police and request your ticket?

No one thinks all police/bankers/doctors/librarians/dentists/lawyers(especially them)/baristas/morning show hosts/politicians/drivers are honest. True police powers can mess with people's lives, but seriously, there are 67,000 police officers in Canada...

While you claim to know a lot of crooked/straight/gay/left handed officers, this really doesn't mean a whole lot, cause you don't know that officer, you know your perception of that interaction...

I used to offer those who came to fight their tickets in court a chance to come and ride along with me for a shift...only a few ever took me up on it, and without changing the way I do business (they had front row seats, I received lots of apologies and lots of "Wow, that DOES make sense."

So, if we hear a story once a month about an officer doing something really stupid, not the stuff we don't understand...I mean the clearly bad guy cops...

What I refer to ar the officers who drive drunk, steal, use indefensible force, write tickets to drivers who weren't there...the stuff that is clearly crooked...that amounts to one story a month...12 officers per year divided by 67,000 officers = 0.000179 percent of officers make headlines for their bad behaviour. Sure there are lots of rude ones, think they run into more rude drivers than rude drivers run into rude police officers? Me too...

I have been pleasant to every to every pleasant driver I've encountered. If you are rude, abrupt, belittling, question my integrity during my traffic stop what do you expect? If you want a trial, you have options but it won't be at the roadside...


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FiReSTaRT
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by: FiReSTaRT on
Wed Mar 24, 2010 8:12 pm

I can think of at least 2 situations where having a camera would have been a sure-fire way to avoid conviction.
1) Red light ticket (I lucked out and it had a fatal error, otherwise it would have been the constable's word against mine without video evidence)
2) HOV lane ticket (since it was municipal and as far as I knew/know treated as a bylaw ticket, I didn't bother taking it to court as it would have cost me more in time than the ticket amount and I was working 70h/week)

With that being said, a camera setup would be more useful in case of collision, so it doesn't turn into a "he-said she-said" kind of a situation where both drivers are assigned 50% of fault (according to the fault determination rules) thus having both of their rates going up the same as if they were both 100% responsible, for 6 years.
What kind of a man would put a known criminal in charge of a major branch of government? Apart from, say, the average voter.


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FyreStorm
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by: FyreStorm on
Wed Mar 24, 2010 8:23 pm

Red light ticket? So the officer just made it up?


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by: coolcustomer on
Wed Mar 24, 2010 9:26 pm

You know I get a little upset when people are trying to make rash judgements on just a series of words that are typed up. The question I am asking is would a dash mounted camera and a way to record in real time your speedometer readings while you drive be considered as evidence in a court. And I think I know the answer now, if the camera captures it? (like running a red light when you didn't) sure, about the speedometer, well that I don't get yet.

I am also saying it's a good insurance tool, for car accidents?

I also have my camera hooked up to my Iphone to stream it live at the push of a button if I want to right to my own network or even youtube consider this scenario.

A mugger breaks the window of my wifes car and steals all her things, sees the camera and breaks it as soon as he sees it. Well, thats too little too late as the video evidence is no longer reachable to that mugger. (A better idea would be to hide the camera, miniatures are too expensive mind you)

Other business that carry video camera's or takes pictures for evidence while on the road.

City Transit drivers (in certain cities)
Taxi cab drivers (A Still Camera of the passengers)
Some Security Patrol Supervisors

As for answering the question that if I was in the wrong and videotaping. Well, if it was planned, you can bet I wouldn't be bringing a video camera. Otherwise, em no.

However if the general public were to drive around with a camera on their dash, they would be able to record any crime that is commited and turn it over to the police as evidence. So it could also do some good.


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FiReSTaRT
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by: FiReSTaRT on
Wed Mar 24, 2010 10:34 pm

FyreStorm wrote:Red light ticket? So the officer just made it up?
Yes.. Both my passenger and I were SHOCKED that he ticketed me. Doing 50 in a 50 zone, going straight through the intersection (thus not slowing down to make turn or anything like that), the light was green when I entered the intersection and was just turning yellow as I made it to the other end. I got pulled over and handed that ticket and still don't know why.
Before you bring my other unwarranted ticket into doubt, here's what happened there. I pulled into the HOV just to make a right turn into a parking lot. They were running an HOV trap in the parking lot that was just before it and waved me in as soon as I made the lane change. I had parking slips from my intended lot on my person (as a part of an expense report) to prove that I just went into the HOV lane to make the right turn, but the constable still gave me a ticket and told me to take it to court.
If I had video evidence both of those constables would have been chewed up by any reasonable JP for wasting the court's time. By the way, I got other tickets that I deserved, but those two were pure bovine excrement.
What kind of a man would put a known criminal in charge of a major branch of government? Apart from, say, the average voter.


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FyreStorm
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by: FyreStorm on
Wed Mar 24, 2010 10:39 pm

JPs don't chew officers up in court, never seen it happen in 22 years...still it sounds like you were wrongly ticketed...good thing the system works, mostly...


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by: hwybear on
Wed Mar 24, 2010 10:51 pm

FiReSTaRT wrote:I pulled into the HOV just to make a right turn into a parking lot. .
maybe you can let us all know what road, Municipality so we do not run into this situation?
Above is merely a suggestion/thought and in no way constitutes legal advice or views of my employer. www.OHTA.ca


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FiReSTaRT
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by: FiReSTaRT on
Wed Mar 24, 2010 11:02 pm

maybe you can let us all know what road, Municipality so we do not run into this situation?
Dundas (HWY5), Toronto (Etobicoke).
JPs don't chew officers up in court, never seen it happen in 22 years...still it sounds like you were wrongly ticketed...good thing the system works, mostly...
The system worked because the constable made a fatal error on the ticket and it took hundreds of dollars that I couldn't really afford (being a broke student in my early 20's at the time of the incident) that went to a paralegal who spotted it and dealt with it. Had I made it into court within a reasonable amount of time, without video evidence or a major error by the Crown, chances are I would have been convicted (witness or no witness).
What kind of a man would put a known criminal in charge of a major branch of government? Apart from, say, the average voter.


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by: hwybear on
Wed Mar 24, 2010 11:37 pm

FiReSTaRT wrote:
maybe you can let us all know what road, Municipality so we do not run into this situation?
Dundas (HWY5), Toronto (Etobicoke)..
is there a cross road to help narrow down, thanx
Above is merely a suggestion/thought and in no way constitutes legal advice or views of my employer. www.OHTA.ca


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FiReSTaRT
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by: FiReSTaRT on
Thu Mar 25, 2010 12:18 am

Not too far west of Kipling. I'm not sure if the right lane is still for buses/taxis/motorcycles/3 car occupants, but it was at the time of the ticketing. Actually I'm not sure if the signs already have motorcycle stickers.. I don't take that stretch of the road very often these days (especially since Parker Brothers moved).
What kind of a man would put a known criminal in charge of a major branch of government? Apart from, say, the average voter.


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by: Marquisse on
Thu Mar 25, 2010 9:23 am

I know exactly where that is, Firestart. It runs from what they call the Six-Points Plaza and runs to the Mississauga border (and continues into Mississauga under the 427 collector lanes bridge holding the lanes to the exits of Browns' Line and Queensway). Another landmark is Cloverdale Mall.


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by: racer on
Fri Mar 26, 2010 1:50 am

hwybear wrote:Video in a vehicle can not identify which target a radar or lidar is striking and at what point in the time the reading was obtained.
Well, if it is a true night-time camera, then it should "see" the lidar beam, and when, or whether, it is hitting your car, no :P?

I agree that the number of legitimate speeding charges laid is very high, but the idea here is to try and catch a suspected abuser.

Speedometer? have another tiny camera record a time-stamped, super-low res video of the speedometer alone :lol:
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by: coolcustomer on
Fri Mar 26, 2010 4:18 am

There are tools out there that say they can detect radar or lidars. I don't know if it has to actually hit your car or not to be detected. Then you can record the time. At least you might be able to date and time stamp.

So far, I figure that with a swivel mount, you might be able to record evidence of whats infront of your car or even in back. Say identifying wether your going through a red light or not. Maybe your speeding because of an unreasonable tailgater who refuses to pass you even thaught there is a second open lane available. Some 18wheelers like to do that.

Evidence in an accident to me can be the one biggest reason to have a live dash mounted camera in the car recording as you drive. If the evidence is showing you that your crossing your intersection on your green and suddenly (BAM) your T-boned. If the occupants of the other vehicle wishes to argue that fact, (Saying they had the green for example) with video evidence. I suspect it would be a very short court appearance in your favour. Even with witnesses the video would probably be conclusive evidence.


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by: coolcustomer on
Fri Mar 26, 2010 4:28 am

A one frame a second Low res camera to record the speedometer? Thats GREAT? It should be all I need. I can probably find something compact enough to do the job. 1inchX1X1, sure thing. I'll let you know if that works out.


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by: Plenderzoosh on
Fri Mar 26, 2010 11:16 am

coolcustomer wrote:There are tools out there that say they can detect radar or lidars. I don't know if it has to actually hit your car or not to be detected. Then you can record the time. At least you might be able to date and time stamp.
This could work if you don't mind fighting one extra ticket because radar detectors are illegal in Ontario. But hey you're going to be in court that day anyways might as well make it count :lol:


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