From the HTA, I always thought 'highway' could be interpreted to include mall parking lots, because they are "intended for or used by the general public". But after spending the last few days reading the majority of posts on this site, you all seem to agree that the HTA definition of 'highway' only applies to public areas between private property lines. If, for example, someone was caught doing a burnout on the main roadway inside a mall parking lot, could a charge be laid under the HTA? It would be private property, but it is intended for use by the general public.
From the HTA, I always thought 'highway' could be interpreted to include mall parking lots, because they are "intended for or used by the general public". But after spending the last few days reading the majority of posts on this site, you all seem to agree that the HTA definition of 'highway' only applies to public areas between private property lines.
If, for example, someone was caught doing a burnout on the main roadway inside a mall parking lot, could a charge be laid under the HTA? It would be private property, but it is intended for use by the general public.
The OHTA does not apply to private property, such as mall parking lots. However, the criminal code does apply; dangerous driving and so do noise by-laws.
The OHTA does not apply to private property, such as mall parking lots. However, the criminal code does apply; dangerous driving and so do noise by-laws.
http://www.OHTA.ca OR http://www.OntarioTrafficAct.com
The definition has come to mean is the area property line to property line, as far as defining a highway. Most of the HTA offences, such as section 128 (speeding), section 130 (careless driving) and section 172 :roll: specify in their definitions that the offence (in so many words) is only applicable if it occurs on a highway. Private property is not a highway. Some parts of the HTA, like the requirement to report/remain at a collision, apply everywhere. As Reflections said, they could get you for some other offence in the parking lot, just not HTA... unless you hit something.
The definition has come to mean is the area property line to property line, as far as defining a highway. Most of the HTA offences, such as section 128 (speeding), section 130 (careless driving) and section 172 specify in their definitions that the offence (in so many words) is only applicable if it occurs on a highway. Private property is not a highway. Some parts of the HTA, like the requirement to report/remain at a collision, apply everywhere.
As Reflections said, they could get you for some other offence in the parking lot, just not HTA... unless you hit something.
Last edited by Radar Identified on Thu Feb 26, 2009 1:43 pm, edited 1 time in total.
So it's more or less based on case law? Which is perfectly fine; I just read the definition of 'highway' in the HTA to be worded to include private property meant for public access. So it would include mall parking lots, apartment visitor lots, TTC passenger drop-offs, etc., but exclude your house driveway and other controlled access areas like TTC parking lots. To me, the word 'public' there means 'public access' instead of 'public property'. I guess the courts feel differently. 8)
So it's more or less based on case law? Which is perfectly fine; I just read the definition of 'highway' in the HTA to be worded to include private property meant for public access. So it would include mall parking lots, apartment visitor lots, TTC passenger drop-offs, etc., but exclude your house driveway and other controlled access areas like TTC parking lots.
"highway" includes a common and public highway, street, avenue, parkway, driveway, square, place, bridge, viaduct or trestle, any part of which is intended for or used by the general public for the passage of vehicles and includes the area between the lateral property lines thereof; ("voie publique")
To me, the word 'public' there means 'public access' instead of 'public property'. I guess the courts feel differently.
It is used by the general public for the passage of vehicles. Not the spaces themselves, but the roadways that are adjacent to the spaces. How often do people exceed 50 km/h in front of Wal-Mart? Moot point anyways, as the courts don't recognise my interpretation according to case law. I was just interested on where the HTA was enforceable.
It is used by the general public for the passage of vehicles. Not the spaces themselves, but the roadways that are adjacent to the spaces. How often do people exceed 50 km/h in front of Wal-Mart?
Moot point anyways, as the courts don't recognise my interpretation according to case law. I was just interested on where the HTA was enforceable.
Where I bolded, because commas are only used to separate the items on the list, meaning roughly that: "highway" includes a common and public driveable surface, any part of which is intended for or used by the general public for the passage of vehicles and includes the area between the lateral property lines thereof; ("voie publique") Public is the key otherwise. If it's not on public property, then it does not apply, unless it is classified as a toll highway (which can be private property). Mall parking lots are surely not toll highways (would you pay to park at a mall?)
"highway" includes a common and public, highway, street, avenue, parkway, driveway, square, place, bridge, viaduct or trestle, any part of which is intended for or used by the general public for the passage of vehicles and includes the area between the lateral property lines thereof; ("voie publique")
Where I bolded, because commas are only used to separate the items on the list, meaning roughly that:
"highway" includes a common and public driveable surface, any part of which is intended for or used by the general public for the passage of vehicles and includes the area between the lateral property lines thereof; ("voie publique")
Public is the key otherwise. If it's not on public property, then it does not apply, unless it is classified as a toll highway (which can be private property). Mall parking lots are surely not toll highways (would you pay to park at a mall?)
"The more laws, the less justice" - Marcus Tullius Cicero
"The hardest thing to explain is the obvious"
Where I bolded, because commas are only used to separate the items on the list, meaning roughly that: "highway" includes a common and public driveable surface, any part of which is intended for or used by the general public for the passage of vehicles and includes the area between the lateral property lines thereof; ("voie publique") Public is the key otherwise. If it's not on public property, then it does not apply, unless it is classified as a toll highway (which can be private property). Mall parking lots are surely not toll highways (would you pay to park at a mall?) I pay every time I go to Eaton Centre. :D I think I'm starting to understand. So if someone was to 'stunt' in a Home Depot parking lot, section 172 couldn't be applied? I guess it would end up being a trespassing charge then.
racer wrote:
"highway" includes a common and public, highway, street, avenue, parkway, driveway, square, place, bridge, viaduct or trestle, any part of which is intended for or used by the general public for the passage of vehicles and includes the area between the lateral property lines thereof; ("voie publique")
Where I bolded, because commas are only used to separate the items on the list, meaning roughly that:
"highway" includes a common and public driveable surface, any part of which is intended for or used by the general public for the passage of vehicles and includes the area between the lateral property lines thereof; ("voie publique")
Public is the key otherwise. If it's not on public property, then it does not apply, unless it is classified as a toll highway (which can be private property). Mall parking lots are surely not toll highways (would you pay to park at a mall?)
I pay every time I go to Eaton Centre.
I think I'm starting to understand. So if someone was to 'stunt' in a Home Depot parking lot, section 172 couldn't be applied? I guess it would end up being a trespassing charge then.
I heard Julian Fantino is gonna have OPP officers and planes to patrol parking lots for aggressive driving. Rumour is a 7 day license suspension and toe on the spot. Mandatory court date.
I heard Julian Fantino is gonna have OPP officers and planes to patrol parking lots for aggressive driving.
Rumour is a 7 day license suspension and toe on the spot. Mandatory court date.
Highway is anything between fence line to fence line. Under the act it states, "any part of which is intended for or used by the general public for the passage of vehicles" This refers to those rest stops off the highway, not Walmart parking lots. Passage of vehicles, one way in (off highway) and one way out (onto highway).
Highway is anything between fence line to fence line. Under the act it states, "any part of which is intended for or used by the general public for the passage of vehicles"
This refers to those rest stops off the highway, not Walmart parking lots. Passage of vehicles, one way in (off highway) and one way out (onto highway).
I have just heard this argument from my 2 cousins, which are both taking Criminology in Ottawa and training to be police officers. They told me that the HTA does not apply to private property. Now you may say, yeah no point in it applying to a Wal-Mart, but what about the 407? The 407 is PRIVATE PROPERTY!!! It is owned by a corporation, and therefore they told me for that reason the HTA does not apply on the 407. She also told me she discussed this with police in North York, and they said it was true, that police really can only go on it if there is an accident, but can't stop anybody speeding since the HTA does not apply. Although saying this, I have seen some OPP around Oakville on the 407. Looking like they are looking for speeders. But not like people would be aware of this, they may just pay the ticket. Is this actually true? Or is it just a myth?
I have just heard this argument from my 2 cousins, which are both taking Criminology in Ottawa and training to be police officers.
They told me that the HTA does not apply to private property.
Now you may say, yeah no point in it applying to a Wal-Mart, but what about the 407?
The 407 is PRIVATE PROPERTY!!! It is owned by a corporation, and therefore they told me for that reason the HTA does not apply on the 407. She also told me she discussed this with police in North York, and they said it was true, that police really can only go on it if there is an accident, but can't stop anybody speeding since the HTA does not apply.
Although saying this, I have seen some OPP around Oakville on the 407. Looking like they are looking for speeders. But not like people would be aware of this, they may just pay the ticket.
I was stopped for allegedly doing 122 in a 90. I requested disclosure and like most received the minimum. The notes are just a photo copy with no explanations or typing. Only received parts of the manual that pertain to testing. Appears the officer was using a "Laser Atlanta Speed Laser", but no model or serial number is referenced in the notes. Testing is noted in two times written at the…
Hey guys, wanted to know if anyone has had a similar situation, and if you have any advice:
I was travelling E/B on Dundas St and had a green light to turn S/B on Spadina Ave. There's a no right on red sign, I observed it. I initiated my maneuver, slowly pulling my car into position to make the turn. This intersection is super busy, and there was a group of pedestrians who were painfully slowly…
This is the first traffic ticket that i have ever had, and i was wondering if someone could shoot me some of their advice as to how i could go about the case?
It was a red light, i approached the intersection and stopped, noticed two pedestrians on the right of me, and one officer on left and right of my vehicle, on the cross walks. They were pay duty for construction happening. I was waiting for…
I thank you in advance for the opportunity to share my concern here with you and also ask for help . I have a portfolio for 21 years, 16 years in class A / Z and with my Abastract / CVOR record both clean. I was stopped by an OPP on HWY 6 towards Tobermory, On just because I was above the allowed highway limit. According to the policeman, he told me that I reached 130km / h in an…
I can't find the category for this post so I'm posting it here.
Two questions...
1. Are golf carts considered a 'vehicle' under the Highway traffic act? I know carts can't drive across roads or on roads but if you try to bring one from the USA into Canada they are considered a 'vehicle'.
2. If you are on private property are you allowed to carry 'opened' alcohol in your golf cart? I know golf…
I was going southbound on 427 and exited at Queensway (Toronto). I needed to make a right turn and it is no right turn on red. So I stop on red light. There were 3 cars in front of me. I get the green arrow pointing right. So the cars turn right and when I was turning the green arrows just turned off. There was no amber. It just turned off. So I get pulled over…
Back on august 28th around 7 40 in the morning I got pulled over by a cop in a car that was not legally registered for the road yet, Stupid as it was i was literally just taking it for a drive on my street because it was sitting for so long My street is a residential street so i didn't think i cop would be turning on it anytime soon. But of course i got unlucky. He got me gave me 3 tickets. By…
I got ticket for failing to stop at stop sign in Toronto. i heard that the police officer must see the stop line, if there is one, from where he was sitting. That is exactly my case, Is it a strong case? If so do i need a picture to show that there is a stop line and a picture to show that he could not see the stop line from where he was sitting?
I got pulled over for disobey the "No Heavy truck" sign, on the ticket it say Highway traffic act Section 182(2), but I think I didn't disobey the "No Heavy Truck" sign, because my truck was loaded with delivery items(which at the time it was under 5 tonnes), I didn't request for disclosure, the cop that pulled me over didn't even check my truck to see if it is over 5 tonnes.
I picked up a brand new (old stock) Fuzzbuster a while ago at auction (wopping $5!!) and I want to mount it on the dash of my old GTO as a cool accessory when I show it at car shows. But I'm not sure if it's legal or not.
Here's my thoughts:
- It is early 70's technology (x-band) so it won't detect modern police radar. That's assuming no police force uses the old x-band frequency.
This morning I came downstairs to see my car with a ticket on it for $150 for parking in a fire route. The underground parking is under construction and we cannot park there so the tenates have to park either in visitors or adjacent streets. I have been parking in the same spot for a week and nothing was said to me until I found the ticket Sunday morning. I looked at every other car parked where…
Just bought my 1st GPS. Pretty decent little outfit. Have used it on a couple of short trips and got me to the destintation properly.
I have taken it to work recently and it is not as accurate as I first had hoped. The calculation of my vehicle speed is off by 2km/hr (GPS reads high). When stationary in many locations, it does not place me exactly where I am parked. On 2 different times it…
HI! So my husband was driving home at 2 am and blew out his back passenger tire which caused him to hit a parked car, he did quite a bit of damage to the car , there was no one around , and he did not have any paper to leave a note, also because it was a very old 1980 car and my husband assumed the damage was less than 1000,00 dollars and he left and did not report it until the next day. A week…
Issued in a news release by Toronto Police Traffic Services Sergeant Tim Burrows, these were the top 10 peeves of drivers in an on-line survey by the Toronto Police:
10. Slow drivers
9. Slower-moving drivers who pull into your lane when you're going faster
I received a speeding ticket this past weekend, and although the officer was nice and gave my 6yo a coupon for a free slushy, I want to fight the ticket.
The officer wrote the offence as "95km/h in a posted E0 km/h zone" the "E" being what looks like a written backwards 3. Now I know and you can probably guess he intended to write an 8 but that is not what is there it is an incomplete 8 and…
Quick run down of my situation: My liscence was suspended in early September for a DUI. Got caught driving last weekend on the 401. Officer claimed I was pulled over because she figured I was speeding and I looked suspicious because I was looking around in the car too much. She searched the entire car looking for weed - none was found. I was charged with driving while under suspension.
I wasn't quiet sure where this should go, so I am going to try here.
I am 25 years old, and I have had my G2 license since March 2010. I haven't upgraded to my full G only out of not really having the time nor cash to do it as of yet. In early February of this year I was pulled over by an OPP at a RIDE program and blew a 0.031 BAC. I was unaware at the time that I was supposed to have a BAC…
I was involved in an accident last month. I was proceeding along a street with cars parked adjacent to the curb. Approaching an intersection I saw a large truck and trailer parked against the curb (no brake lights, or turn signals) so I presumed he was parked there. I approached the intersection, following the same path as all the other traffic, just to the right of the centre line. When I…
I have received 2 pieces of paper on the door of my home within the last week. Looks like I am being summons to witness for an accident where the other driver was at fault last year. (He hit me and was charged at the scene).
I'm just wondering if anyone knows how many attempts they will make to serve me, or if they will keep trying until they do ?
I was charged 2 days ago with RED LIGHT - FAIL TO STOP and set fined $150 and I guess 3 points. I was driving turning left on the intersection with a traffic light, and when I jst about to turn left the light turned to orange and I didn't have enough time to stop. Once I turned I saw the light turned to red and 2seconds later I saw a police beacon flashing through my rear-view mirror. It…
Highway 21 is often closed in the winter. I and a lot of other people need to cross Highway 21 to get to work. Several people have told me that if a highway is closed, it's not only illegal to drive along the highway, but to cross it on any intersecting road, because while you cross it you're technically driving on a closed road.
Hi all, I was ticketed for this offense while on a bicycle where I "turned left" at a red light without first coming to a complete stop at the red light. It was a T-intersection where I was facing the straight through lanes (4 lanes, two in each direction) and a side street came in from the right only (2 lanes, one in each direction), and no vehicles or pedestrians were entering from the right at…
In early March I was driving in the Yonge & Churchil area. An officer said I failed to stop at a stop sign and ticketed me 110+3 demerits. While getting my license etc. I have multiple photocopy of my car ownership in my car, and that I thought I handed him the copy with the validation sticker on the back as required but gave him one of the blank copies by accident. He came back with…
specify in their definitions that the offence (in so many words) is only applicable if it occurs on a highway. Private property is not a highway. Some parts of the HTA, like the requirement to report/remain at a collision, apply everywhere.
