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Ontario Highway Traffic Act

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PostPosted: Mon Apr 13, 2009 6:04 pm 
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FiReSTaRT wrote:
P.S. The first safety mod I did on my bike was installing a 130dB horn, to replace the inaudible stock tweeter :twisted:


Do you wear earplugs before starting the motorcycle? 130 dB will destroy 100% hearing in an hour!


FiReSTaRT wrote:
The way it looks to me, there was a group of horse riders spread out all over the road. If they want to spread out, they can do that on horse trails and on meadows. Not on roads made for motor vehicle travel.


Apparently the damage was done on the driver's side, so the horse was on the lane opposite to what the p/u should have been staying on. Even the testimony says "he wasn't on his side of the road". What do you do? Move to the other side where the p/u should have been driving, so that he changes lanes into where he should be and still have a collision???

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PostPosted: Mon Apr 13, 2009 6:25 pm 
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I should, but I don't. Since my hearing has been messed up (just short of being technically hearing-impaired) even before I started riding, I don't even notice the regular noise.. As for the horn, it's not like I use it non stop or for long periods of time. Mostly used for a few seconds at a time to warn careless and/or aggressive drivers planning to make a turn in front of my bike.
I guess I didn't catch the detail. But the story also doesn't offer how far into the road the horseback riders were and how narrow the road was. I wouldn't want to convict him before knowing all of the details and I wanted to point out the other issue -- bicycle/horseback riders, skateboarders, pedestrians minibike riders etc etc etc all taking dangerous actions around faster moving vehicles.

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PostPosted: Mon Apr 13, 2009 6:42 pm 
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Hitting animals on the road is not uncommon. We see deer on the roads here more often.

Some people do hit them. Never by choice. I myself had a few close encounters where deer just show up on the road after a slight curve on the road, and you see them at the last moment. You can't always stop, and it is a very intense moment. I have never personally hit a deer or any animal, but where I live, in the summer time, sometimes you will see dead deers lying in the ditches.

I don't think the driver intentionally hit the horse. Why would he?

I would question where the horse and rider were on the road.

Horses should not even be on the road. It is the riders repsonsibility to make sure the horse is safe and not pose any threat to cars driving by.

If the driver didn't hit and run, I think this story would just be cited as an accident.

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PostPosted: Mon Apr 13, 2009 7:00 pm 
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Also I know how intimidating it can be when you collide with a member of a group. Maybe he felt threatened by the behaviour of the riders as a group.

On one occasion, my buddy and I were riding our motorcycles and we saw a guy driving a Lexus cut off another motorcyclist. The motorcyclist crashed as a direct result of the driver's action. Fortunately, he and his passenger were fine. The driver stopped, assumed an aggressive stance and started yelling at the motorcyclist. At that point, we pulled over, I came up to the driver (about 3-4' distance) and asked him "Is there anything you have to say to your victim in front of us?" The driver remembered he had pressing business elsewhere and hightailed it off the scene. We reported him to Peel police and never heard back from them.

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PostPosted: Mon Apr 13, 2009 8:22 pm 
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adding in the previous mentioned school kids....see adults doing same stuff...disobeying cross walk signs etc...no wonder the kids don't know any better.

remember couple yrs back....a child got hit by a car on a paved back road that goes to a popular beach/marina.....mother complained in the paper.....my kids always play on the road :shock:

kids on skateboards with boards etc on road...get to a parking lot, stay off the roads

Certainly motorists are not always, seldom to blames in these situations.

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PostPosted: Mon Apr 13, 2009 8:42 pm 
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That's where I have my Eastern European upbringing to thank. Where I grew up, kids knew to cross only at crosswalks and to look left and right before actuallly crossing... By the age of 5. It's sad that kids here don't learn to do the same by the age of 12. Maybe community policing programs should be established to deal with the problem. Also more enforcement of people on bicycles violating the h.t.a. and more accountability for improper livestock presence on the roads.

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PostPosted: Mon Apr 13, 2009 11:11 pm 
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Horses are permitted on the roads, and they are governed by the HTA. Some sections specifically mention them, like section 148(2):

Quote:
Every person in charge of a vehicle or on horseback on a highway who is overtaken by a vehicle or equestrian travelling at a greater speed shall turn out to the right and allow the overtaking vehicle or equestrian to pass.


The rider should have control of them, and allow overtaking vehicles to pass safely, give way as required, etc. Based on the report, it sounds as though the p/u driver was on the wrong side of the road, maintained his speed, bee-lined for the horse and rammed it. I can't see where the horse rider did anything illegal in this case. We have a lot of farming communities where encountering horses on the road would be normal, like Aurora or King City. What I'd like to know is, what was the p/u doing driving on the wrong side of the road?

FiReSTaRT wrote:
Where I grew up, kids knew to cross only at crosswalks and to look left and right before actuallly crossing... By the age of 5.


On a daily basis I see people hauling their little kids across the street I live on, outside of crosswalks, with cars whipping by at 50-85 km/h (speed limit 60). People seem to have no sense of self-preservation anymore, at least in North America. It just seems as though doing the safe and smart thing is too inconvenient.


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PostPosted: Mon Apr 13, 2009 11:44 pm 
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Quote:
Every person in charge of a vehicle or on horseback on a highway who is overtaken by a vehicle or equestrian travelling at a greater speed shall turn out to the right and allow the overtaking vehicle or equestrian to pass.


Maybe both the riders and the driver got confused. In any case, while the law allows for horses to be on the roads, the reality of the situation is that the law was originally written when horses were still used for transportation. These days, horses are not so common and only used for recreational purposes. Our roads are already overtravelled by cars and when you introduce livestock, it becomes a mess. In any case I'd like to hear the results of an official collision investigation before drawing any conclusions.
What kinda street do you live on? If it's a major street like Eglinton or Hurontario, you can't expect for people to do 40km/h just because people are crossing the street with their kids. That's why we have traffic lights with marked pedestrian crossings.

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PostPosted: Tue Apr 14, 2009 12:29 am 
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FiReSTaRT wrote:
What kinda street do you live on? If it's a major street like Eglinton or Hurontario, you can't expect for people to do 40km/h just because people are crossing the street with their kids. That's why we have traffic lights with marked pedestrian crossings.


Victoria Park Avenue (four lanes, lots of traffic). Sorry, maybe my wording led you to believe that I was faulting the drivers instead of the pedestrians in this case. I wasn't. I definitely don't expect drivers to go unreasonably slowly. Like you, I expect that pedestrians, particularly those with small kids, will take their own safety and especially their children's safety into consideration and use a crosswalk at the traffic lights. If I had a small child with me, I wouldn't even think of crossing a road where people travel at high speeds outside of a crosswalk. It's way too risky and I wouldn't want to teach the kid that it's okay to jaywalk on busy roads.


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PostPosted: Tue Apr 14, 2009 1:22 am 
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I should have paid more attention reading, too. You are correct. And then they scream at "speeding" drivers. "I was taking my sonny-boy across this small residential street, quaintly named the Queen Elizabeth Way, when some crazy young punk driving a souped up rice rocket almost ran us over doing 300km/h. Why doesn't the government do something about these idiots?" And then we get slimeballs like Jaczek who feed off that *EDIT*, (try and often succeed to) pass dumb/unnecessary and certainly redundant laws and get lots of nanny-votes.

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PostPosted: Wed Apr 15, 2009 9:18 am 
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FiReSTaRT wrote:
Quote:
Every person in charge of a vehicle or on horseback on a highway who is overtaken by a vehicle or equestrian travelling at a greater speed shall turn out to the right and allow the overtaking vehicle or equestrian to pass.


Maybe both the riders and the driver got confused. In any case, while the law allows for horses to be on the roads, the reality of the situation is that the law was originally written when horses were still used for transportation. These days, horses are not so common and only used for recreational purposes. Our roads are already overtravelled by cars and when you introduce livestock, it becomes a mess. In any case I'd like to hear the results of an official collision investigation before drawing any conclusions.
What kinda street do you live on? If it's a major street like Eglinton or Hurontario, you can't expect for people to do 40km/h just because people are crossing the street with their kids. That's why we have traffic lights with marked pedestrian crossings.


Plenty of horses are used for transportation outside of the GTA. I regularly see a buggy with a "slow vehicle" sign on the back pulled by one or two horses. The Waterloo Home Depot has a barn for horse-and-buggy parking.

hwybear wrote:
Plus people walking on the wrong side of the road.


What's the "wrong side"? :lol:

I hate pedestrians who walk on the roadway when there is a sidewalk three feet next to them.

My previous bosses have all commented on how I walk behind a person instead of next to them. Apparently it makes them feel that I think I am "inferior" to them and not worthy of walking abreast. :oops:

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PostPosted: Wed Apr 15, 2009 4:05 pm 
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FiReSTaRT wrote:
In any case, while the law allows for horses to be on the roads, the reality of the situation is that the law was originally written when horses were still used for transportation. These days, horses are not so common and only used for recreational purposes.


OHTA was written in 1990. I highly doubt that the horses were in common use in 1990.

admin wrote:
I don't think the driver intentionally hit the horse. Why would he?


Surely you are not suggesting that the horse rider decided to run the horse under the pickup truck. Why would she? Risk her life for what? Some mentioned that North Americans seem to have a lesser sense of self-preservation, but to intentionally steer the horse onto a way of a pickup truck?

What I think happened here is that the driver was in "I am the king of the road with a pickup, I can drive as fast as I want, wherever I want, and everyone else should get out of my way" set of mind. Given that he drove off like that simply proves the fact that hit the horse in that frame of mind.

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PostPosted: Wed Apr 15, 2009 4:19 pm 
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racer wrote:
Surely you are not suggesting that the horse rider decided to run the horse under the pickup truck. Why would she? Risk her life for what? Some mentioned that North Americans seem to have a lesser sense of self-preservation, but to intentionally steer the horse onto a way of a pickup truck?


Weird comment to make but ok.

The point was if your read, no body deliberately hits a horse or any animal or anything on the road.

This has nothing to do with North Americans as you put it.

racer wrote:

What I think happened here is that the driver was in "I am the king of the road with a pickup, I can drive as fast as I want, wherever I want, and everyone else should get out of my way" set of mind. Given that he drove off like that simply proves the fact that hit the horse in that frame of mind.


So your saying this guy was driving like a North American, and claimed to be king of the world, and hit the horse and took off because he intentionally hit the horse?

There is NO evidence that would suggest he went out of his way and targeted the horse. IF you ever drove a car more than a week and out of your city, you would realize driving is not always as easy as it looks.

You can't blame North Americans, and you can't blame the driver without knowing what happened exactly.

Also, he was not charged with speeding, so I don't know how you figure he was driving like a North American as you put it.

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PostPosted: Wed Apr 15, 2009 4:57 pm 
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admin wrote:
The point was if your read, no body deliberately hits a horse or any animal or anything on the road.


I disagree with that. People around here hit raccoons, turtles, and rabbits for sport. It's doubtful that they would move up to a horse, but there's always that one guy more nutso than the rest.

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PostPosted: Wed Apr 15, 2009 8:46 pm 
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admin wrote:
So your saying this guy was driving like a North American, and claimed to be king of the world, and hit the horse and took off because he intentionally hit the horse?


If the article is correct, then yes. The p/u driver crashed into the horse and rider, mortally wounded the horse and seriously injured the rider. Even if that was accidental, the passenger got out, looked at them and instead of asking if they were okay or anything, shouted at them: "What were you doing on the road?" Then they drove off, and it wasn't to get assistance. They left the rider to die on the road. That's not the reaction of someone who got confused or made an honest mistake. It would seem that racer's scenario is quite plausible.


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