Ticket received in Parking Lot of Mall. Officer sitting in cruiser looking down toward lap. Cruiser parked on an angle allowing access to turn to the left. I stopped proceeded to the left to turn at the next intersection. After I passed the cruiser and was a least a full car length passed him he honked his horn. I continued to the next intersection in the parking lot turned around and returned to the officer. He asked me why I didn't stop when he honked the horn. I told him wanted to safely turn around in a forward motion instead of backing up. Ticket was issued. The officer was not out of the vehicle directing traffic, he was sitting in the cruiser with his eyes focused on something in his lap. He was supposedly securing a fire scene. A tractor trailer cab had burnt in the parking lot and the fire had been distinguished. I was unaware of the incident as the firetruck was present and obstructed my view. I truly thoght that there had been an accident at the stoplight that was to my right, that is why I proceeded to my left to turn around.
Disobey Officer directing traffic.
- Simon Borys
- VIP

- Posts: 1065
- Joined: Fri Apr 30, 2010 10:20 am
Re: Disobey Officer directing traffic.
That's not likely to stick.
- Traffic Law
- Member

- Posts: 162
- Joined: Thu Sep 25, 2008 5:28 pm
Re: Disobey Officer directing traffic.
Winable case. I could have lots of fun with this one.
Re: Disobey Officer directing traffic.
perhaps the poster can post the road name, municipality so that a google maps search can reveal where this happened.....without it is jumping to conclusions.
I have blocked roads by parking a cruiser x-ways lights activated....only to have vehicles go around the front and rear of the cruiser via sholuder, extra lane, ditch etc...as the car is only so long...... plus sometimes we are equipped with pylons to "extent" the car...only to have people drive thru those too.....all this while waiting for the roads department to bring in full barriers (yes people drive around those too) just sayin
Re: Disobey Officer directing traffic.
I thought I had seen everything.
WOW
Cheers
Viper1
use at your own risk"
-
pvotrainer
- Jr. Member

- Posts: 30
- Joined: Fri Oct 29, 2010 8:08 am
Re: Disobey Officer directing traffic.
The officer has to give a "direction" for this charge to stick. Using the car to block the road does not count either as the HTA specifies the signs and or barracades that must be used. the officer was just lazy at the time. Also, you said you received the ticket in a parking lot. Section 134 only applies when on a highway (road, street, etc). It is not valid on private property such as a mall lot. Receiving the ticket there is ok as long as the offence took place on the highway.
- Simon Borys
- VIP

- Posts: 1065
- Joined: Fri Apr 30, 2010 10:20 am
Re: Disobey Officer directing traffic.
There may be an argument to be made for receiving a ticket in a mall parking lot or similar place. The definition of highway in the HTA is:
"highway" includes a common and public highway, street, avenue, parkway, driveway, square, place, bridge, viaduct or trestle, any part of which is intended for or used by the general public for the passage of vehicles and includes the area between the lateral property lines thereof
One could argue that the nature of the mall, and the corresponding parking lot, is such that the public has an open invitation to access, without the need for an express invitation, such as you might expect on other types of "private property", like your own driveway or a business's secured parking lot. This, arguably, would allow it to meet the definition of highway.
Re: Disobey Officer directing traffic.
pvotrainer wrote:
The officer has to give a "direction" for this charge to stick. Using the car to block the road does not count either as the HTA specifies the signs and or barracades that must be used. the officer was just lazy at the time. Also, you said you received the ticket in a parking lot. Section 134 only applies when on a highway (road, street, etc). It is not valid on private property such as a mall lot. Receiving the ticket there is ok as long as the offence took place on the highway.
HTA 134 (2) specifies to close a highway that a sign OR traffic control devices be used, not for directing of traffic.
HTA 134 (1)makes no reference to the offence having to be on a highway.
-
pvotrainer
- Jr. Member

- Posts: 30
- Joined: Fri Oct 29, 2010 8:08 am
Re: Disobey Officer directing traffic.
the HTA only applies to a highway, except in the instance of reporting a collision. for the police tossue a ticket for an offence under the HTA the offence must have taken place on a highway. Aimple definition of a highway is everything between the propety lines of the roadway, ( ifence to fence in the country, store front to store front downtown Toronto) The width of a standard highway is 33 feet from the centre of the road. if you live in a detached home, walk out to the front yard and find the water shutoff. That's the edge of the highway.
As for a mall parking lot, trying to get it included under the HTA has failed at each attempt. While the definition seems confusing, the courts are clear. It does not apply
-
pvotrainer
- Jr. Member

- Posts: 30
- Joined: Fri Oct 29, 2010 8:08 am
Re: Disobey Officer directing traffic.
Hwybear, you are correct about section 134(2) is for closing a highway. 134 refers to the Regulations. The regulation it refers to describes what must be used to close a highway and a car is not included. Traffic cones (pylons) no entry sign, and saw horse style barracades are. Without using what is specified means no offence has been committed. Section 134(1) applies when an officer is directing traffic, such as in an intersection
Re: Disobey Officer directing traffic.
pvotrainer wrote:
the HTA only applies to a highway, except in the instance of reporting a collision. for the police tossue a ticket for an offence under the HTA the offence must have taken place on a highway. Aimple definition of a highway is everything between the propety lines of the roadway, ( ifence to fence in the country, store front to store front downtown Toronto) The width of a standard highway is 33 feet from the centre of the road. if you live in a detached home, walk out to the front yard and find the water shutoff. That's the edge of the highway.
As for a mall parking lot, trying to get it included under the HTA has failed at each attempt. While the definition seems confusing, the courts are clear. It does not apply
I have been doing this for "many moons" and know highway definition etc...I do no think the original poster described the area well enough, as is indicating there is stoplights in vicinity. Would have been better with a actual street/mall address so we could all google map and see what it is about...just sayin
Can also direct traffic with the cruiser, such as closing down one lane of traffic for a collision.....it is not a closed hwy as a lane is still open
Similar Topics
-
-
- DISOBEY OFFICER DIRECTING TRAFFIC
- Posted in Failing to obey the directions of a police officer
- By BartlettM on
- Replies: 7
-
-
-
-
-
- Failure To Obey Officer Directing Traffic Sitting In Car
- Posted in Failing to obey the directions of a police officer
- By frost on
- Replies: 5
-
-
-
-
- Disobey Officer Traffic on RIDE
- Posted in Failing to obey the directions of a police officer
- By turbin on
- Replies: 11
-
-
-
-
-
-
- Nutcase tries to run down an officer to avoid traffic ticket
- Posted in General Talk
- By Radar Identified on
- Replies: 2
-
-
-
- OPP officer struck during traffic stop
- Posted in General Talk
- By Radar Identified on
-
-
-
- Traffic Ticket: Officer is lying
- Posted in Courts and Procedure
- By armenius on
- Replies: 2
-
-
-
- Officer establishing traffic history re: Speeding
- Posted in General Talk
- By CuriousDriver14 on
- Replies: 12
-
-
-
- What Can I say to the officer during a traffic stop
- Posted in General Talk
- By PounDDer on
- Replies: 16
-
-
-
-
- Interfere with Traffic Highway Traffic Act 170
- Posted in Other Ontario Provincial Acts Related to Traffic
- By 2zeus2 on
- Replies: 1
-
-
-
- Disobey sign H.T.A 182(2) -- Officer bluffing?
- Posted in Prohibited turns
- By nightsky on
- Replies: 12
-
-
-
- Disobey Sign (Officer on private property)
- Posted in Failing to obey signs
- By RexTaz on
- Replies: 1
-
-
-
Featured Topics
driving to US - questions
Planning on going to the US (NY from TO) for about a week, next year;
so some questions and points,
1> Do I need to get special cover from my insurance
2> My car speedo is in KM's , would it help to put a couple of stickers to note where the MPH limits are
3> IF I get a ticket, do I have to go back to NY, to deal with it?
4> If I ignore it can I be extradited or fined…
HTA 144(18.1) - photo evidence of "approaching" the intersection
I will be going to trial for my red light camera offence.
I'll be arguing two issues, centered on the fact that there are two essential elements of 144(18) - a) a vehicle approaching the intersection shall stop; and b) the vehicle shall not proceed until green. Both essential elements must be contravened beyond a reasonable doubt to be an offence.
1) My ticket says I (being the owner) am "charged…
RIDE program, your rights, weigh in
I know that the RIDE program has been covered extensively in these great forums, but I have a question about the stop itself:
I recently was stopped for a RIDE Program and the officer asked me to roll the window down all of the way (I had it at half and could easily communicate with them). I told them that I could hear them just fine and they insisted I roll it down all of the way. Again I told…
Fail To Surrender Valid Permit for Motor Vehicle
Not sure the right place for this so if it needs to be moved please do so.
I was stopped today for 15 over the speed limit, I gave all the documents to the officer and he said he could not accept a photocopy of my ownership only the original I had a photo copy front and back and I had my plate sticker number with it.
he gave me a ticket for HWY ACT Section 7(5)(a) he said only the original would…
Underglow Lighting
Hey! I'm from Sudbury Ontario. Hope that general talk is fine for this subject
I am very serious about looking for exact ruling about underfacing lighting
Section 14 clearly states:
Red and blue lights to the front restricted
(14.1) In addition to the lighting requirements in this Part, a police department vehicle may carry lamps that cast red and blue lights, but no other motor vehicle shall carry…
can i represent my dad for red light camera violation
hi all,
i was driving my dad's car when i was caught by the red light camera in Brampton. My dad would've to take time off work to go ask for a trial and then go to one.
Can i represent him? if yes, what do i need to do?
thank you
144(18) - Alleged rolling stop on a red light.
I was pulled over and told I went through a red light during a right turn. I learned through a friend who is a police constable that the one who pulled me over is new to the job (under a year, and possibly even the first month or two of real duty).
I was given a ticket for $180. I have some questions:
(1) Is this offense automatically associated with 3 demerit points? I see no mention of them on…
bluetooth devices / cell phones / distraction
so I have a cell phone on a dash mount, (so I can see it)
I have a bluetooth handsfree in the visor.
If I'm driving, and the phone goes, if I press the button on the bluetooth device to take a call and just talk into the mic
Will you be ticketed ?
I think you can set it for auto or voice answer but my phone doesnt support that
Also I heard somewhere that you can't have the phone in sight ?
Is talking…
Confused about something
I got a ticket for 'Disobey Stop Sign' in November of 2013 (in York Region), requested disclosure and went to court in August of 2014. At my first appearance, I did not plea but requested an ajournment to to consult legal advice. The JOP set the next appearance in September.
I contacted a paralegal about my options. He told me that on my next appearance, if the police officer did not show, the…
Grounds for appeal ?
I had a trial and found guilty, but the trial seemed to go wrong since the beginning.
The JP asked me if i am intending to take the stand- I said NO.
I asked how to submit my evidence-documents and photos.
JP said-i have to take the stand if i want to submit evidence.(Now i am finding this is wrong-i could introduce my evidence during cross examination and my defense would be much stronger)
Me-OK i…
Quebec also has "Street Racing" legislation
Ottawa, Canada (AHN) - Beginning Tuesday, or April Fool's Day 2008, fines on Quebec drivers caught overspeeding will be doubled. It is not only the money penalty that will go up, but also demerit points.
The new law, Bill 42, is similar to Ontario's street racing rule. It stipulates fines for motorists who drive at over 40 km/h at under 60 km/h zones, speed at 50 km/h at 60 to 90 km/h areas and…
Jim Kenzie on truck Speed limiters
www.wheels.ca/Columnists/article/515144
Make big trucks go slower and the roads will become safer.
Obvious, isn't it? It's also obvious when you look out the window that the world is flat.
Last Monday, truckers in Ontario tried to mount a convoy to Queen's Park to show their opposition to electronic speed limiters. These devices, electronic chips in trucks' engine management systems, restrict speeds…
notice of motion?
I received a ticket for 40 over in Mississauga, I called in to set a trial date, which is sometime in January.
THe other day I received a letter in the mail labelled as 'notice of motion'
it states that i go into court on the date specified ....
i do not understand what this is for...
any input?
Courts have lost jursdiction
In my case, the Crown stated that there was a defect on the Certificate of Offense and essentially the Courts have lost jursdiction.
What exactly does that mean?
Also, the Crown submitted a white form. Im not sure what that is.
Can someone explain what that form is?
Failure to stop for a school bus
I was out on a four lane highway around Orangeville Ontario and I noticed a school bus coming south (I was going north). I kept my eyes on the bus in case it was going to stop. As I approached it, it was slowing down a little, but no lights, and especially no arm with the STOP sign. As I was just about to pass the bus, I still did not see the lights, nor did I see the STOP sign.
Next thing I…
Trial/disclosure strategy for Speeding ticket
Hey everyone first off I'd like to say great website, I have been reading and it is very useful ![]()
I'm posting today as I'd like to get some feedback on my situation and have a couple of questions. Please excuse the vagueness in some areas - I don't want my case to be identifiable given the small town.
So I was driving up north and was pulled over by an OPP SUV for doing 31 over. Cop drove past me,…
deciding what to do
Driving on a 80km/hr highway the car ahead hits the brakes and slows to 55, l slow down right behind him no reason to slow down traffic was moving between 80 and 90. I notice the driver is on the phone and looking through papers on the passenger seat. He begins to start to go a opp officer drives by doing 80 plus in oncoming lane turns around and says l was following to close. Told him what was…
Slid into a car at intersection - Careless Driving.
My son was making a right turn at the intersection he had a green so slowed down looked and proceeded into the turn. It was pouring rain and the was a big pool of water as he got arround the curb. He tried to keep the car going sharp right however it slid into the car making a left turn. the lane he was turning into is very narrow and at a very busy corner. He paniced and left the scene only…
Turn Not in Safety - Collision
Hi,
I had an collision the other day. I was turing left and ran into a car going straight in the opposite direction. The insurance company has already determined that I'm at fault, since I made the left turn. But I'm wondering whether I should go on trail and at least I might get rid of the ticket. The ticket was under 142(1)
I was told that if I go on court, both the guy I hit and the officer who…
3 day suspension / roadside A
question for a friend of mine.....says she got a 3 day suspension for giving a A on a roadside. Thing is she wasnt driving. She is a g2 driver and the car was parked in a parking lot, she just ran out to get something and turned the car on. Can a 3 day be issued if you arent driving on a highway - (I've read for impaired it doesnt matter, but 3 day isnt criminal)? And is there any way to…
Golf carts
I can't find the category for this post so I'm posting it here.
Two questions...
1. Are golf carts considered a 'vehicle' under the Highway traffic act? I know carts can't drive across roads or on roads but if you try to bring one from the USA into Canada they are considered a 'vehicle'.
2. If you are on private property are you allowed to carry 'opened' alcohol in your golf cart? I know golf…
Disobey Sign - 182(2) - No signature on ticket?
I got pulled over (along with about 10 other cars) for going through a road closed sign. I had just pulled out of a parking lot pretty much right beside the road closed sign, and with about 4 cars behind me there wasn't much I could do but go through, so I think I have a good chance of fighting it. However, on my ticket under the Signature of issuing Provincial Offences Officer, it's left…
An absolute nightmare
I was driving westbound on Hwy. 8 earlier this month in North Dumfries Township, approaching the Cambridge city limits. The weather was clear and the roads were dry. I noticed a vehicle on the shoulder on my side of the road, pointing towards me. This didn't concern me right away, as it is a rural area and I sometimes see vehicles doing mail delivery. The vehicle then started accelerating and…
34 over in community safety zone - auto summons
I was pulled over yesterday in a community safety zone and told I was doing 84 in a 50. When i passed the officer I looked at my odometer and I was only doing 64. I was given a summons on the spot to appear in court at the end of June. Do I have any chance in this if it comes down to his word over mine. I was in the car alone but have travelled these same roads every day, twice a day for 6 years…
passenger exit of vehicle
who is at fault when :a) a passenger opens door and jumps out of vehicle onto the road with traffic. b) he gets hit by a car travelling in the adjoining lane. c) traffic lights were green. d) pedestrian crossing was further up and indicated "no crossing" light e) the vehicle that he exited from leaves the scene as soon as accident occurred. f) no charges have been laid after police filed report…