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What Can I say to the officer during a traffic stop
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PostPosted: Mon Jul 31, 2017 12:39 pm 
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Recently my mom was pulled over and the officer threw the ticket at her and told her "see me in court". I was for a expired stick, which I advised her she should change and also film a cop when pulled over because of situations like this.

Anyway, my questions are:

1. Can you swear at the officer during a traffic stop?

2. At what point can an officer order you out of the vehicle?

Thanks


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Re: What Can I say to the officer during a traffic stop
PostPosted: Mon Jul 31, 2017 3:24 pm 
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This is the type of question that will send a topic into a never ending vortex. You're going to get a one or two wannabe freedom fighters in here and it'll never end....

Too many people look at this like "what can I do" instead of "what should I do".

I have a feeling there's a bit more to this story. Keep in mind the side of the road is not a courtroom. Take your ticket and simply go. There's absolutely no advantage to getting into a back and forth with an officer roadside. If you disagree with the charge, you're more than free to ask for a trial. That's all. Move on. You're allowed to disagree, and that's fine. Just don't do it on the side of the road.

If you have a issue with an officer, there's a complaint process. It's independent from your ticket. They are two separate issues. Whoever is seeing your HTA case wont care about the officers attitude and vice versa.


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Re: What Can I say to the officer during a traffic stop
PostPosted: Mon Jul 31, 2017 3:37 pm 
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Can you swear at a police? Yes. There is no charge they can charge you with for swearing at them. Is it a good idea? Probably not, as it may lead to them finding other violations that they might have overlooked otherwise.

Personally (as a wannabe freedom fighter) I subscribe to the be polite, but don't answer questions philosophy. I am only obligated to provide my drivers license, insurance and registration when asked. I am not obligated to answer any questions. People seem to feel the need to explain their situation but usually this just ends with them proving themselves to be guilty.

Google the following and read up on your rights:
ontario know your rights talking to police

_________________
I am not a lawyer and I am not a paralegal and I do not give legal advice.
All statements made are my opinion only.

ShrekTek


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Re: What Can I say to the officer during a traffic stop
PostPosted: Mon Jul 31, 2017 4:56 pm 
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As others have said, be polite and hand over your licence and vehicle documents when asked, but watch your self to make sure you don't say anything incriminating. My goal during a traffic stop is to be as forgettable as possible so that come court time the cop doesn't remember anything about me except for what he has scribbled in his notes. If you get into a big argument with the officer, he is much more likely to remember the details of the stop and he will probably take excellent notes so that he can nail you in court. Remember that if the cop has decided to write you a ticket there is pretty much nothing you can say that will make him change his mind so running your mouth will only hurt your cause. While there is no law against swearing at an officer, be sure not to escalate things to the point where the officer can claim that you threatened him especially if you are dealing with an officer who is a bit of a hot head. The last thing you want to do is to give him an excuse to throw you in jail or rough you up. If his behaviour was way out of line you can always file a complaint with the professional standards unit of the police force involved.


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Re: What Can I say to the officer during a traffic stop
PostPosted: Mon Jul 31, 2017 5:32 pm 
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Shrektek is not completely correct in his response. Depending on the circumstances, if you're in or around a public place where the swearing occurs it could be considered causing a disturbance under the Criminal Code. This is a pretty big stretch but getting into it with an officer at the roadside has the potential to escalate into something more serious. Again, this would only apply in extreme cases where other members of the public are around and are disturbed by the swearing.


Causing disturbance, indecent exhibition, loitering, etc.

175 (1) Every one who

(a) not being in a dwelling-house, causes a disturbance in or near a public place,

(i) by fighting, screaming, shouting, SWEARING, singing or using insulting or obscene language,


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Re: What Can I say to the officer during a traffic stop
PostPosted: Tue Aug 01, 2017 8:01 am 
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daggx wrote:
As others have said, be polite and hand over your licence and vehicle documents when asked, but watch your self to make sure you don't say anything incriminating. My goal during a traffic stop is to be as forgettable as possible so that come court time the cop doesn't remember anything about me except for what he has scribbled in his notes. If you get into a big argument with the officer, he is much more likely to remember the details of the stop and he will probably take excellent notes so that he can nail you in court. Remember that if the cop has decided to write you a ticket there is pretty much nothing you can say that will make him change his mind so running your mouth will only hurt your cause. While there is no law against swearing at an officer, be sure not to escalate things to the point where the officer can claim that you threatened him especially if you are dealing with an officer who is a bit of a hot head. The last thing you want to do is to give him an excuse to throw you in jail or rough you up. If his behaviour was way out of line you can always file a complaint with the professional standards unit of the police force involved.


This is exactly why if I was going to swear at the cop or argue I have a camera rolling. If you were to tell him "I hope you die" or somethign along those lines he surely would say thats a threat. However if you had the camera, pending the officer doesnt smash it while he roughs you up, you could show you did not.

I wasn't there for my moms traffic stop but she has no evidence anyway so I am sure any complaint she files goes straight in the trash. I wish she did as that would be considered assault with a weapon if she was to throw a piece of paper at the officer (ex: officer bubbles)..

When can the officer ask you out of a vehicles though? Can he order you out if he does not like your attittude?


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Re: What Can I say to the officer during a traffic stop
PostPosted: Tue Aug 01, 2017 9:03 am 
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PounDDer wrote:
When can the officer ask you out of a vehicles though? Can he order you out if he does not like your attittude?


An officer can tell you to get out of your car for the purpose of checking for sobriety.

Another reason would be for the officers safety.

"Attitude" may not mean the same for you as it does for the officer. The officer may look at it as someone who is aggressive, moving their hands, not keeping still, etc. At that point, it can become an issue of officer safety.


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Re: What Can I say to the officer during a traffic stop
PostPosted: Tue Aug 01, 2017 5:29 pm 
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'Officer Bubbles' was an idiot. But so are those who are disrespectful to officers doing their job. It's a two way street. The posts above saying that you are better to do what's asked and complain later if you must are bang on. To not get out of the car when told to do so is not going to end well. If you felt you shouldn't have been asked then complain later.

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Former Ontario Police Officer. Advice will become less relevant as the time goes by !


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Re: What Can I say to the officer during a traffic stop
PostPosted: Tue Aug 01, 2017 8:35 pm 
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PounDDer wrote:
daggx wrote:
As others have said, be polite and hand over your licence and vehicle documents when asked, but watch your self to make sure you don't say anything incriminating. My goal during a traffic stop is to be as forgettable as possible so that come court time the cop doesn't remember anything about me except for what he has scribbled in his notes. If you get into a big argument with the officer, he is much more likely to remember the details of the stop and he will probably take excellent notes so that he can nail you in court. Remember that if the cop has decided to write you a ticket there is pretty much nothing you can say that will make him change his mind so running your mouth will only hurt your cause. While there is no law against swearing at an officer, be sure not to escalate things to the point where the officer can claim that you threatened him especially if you are dealing with an officer who is a bit of a hot head. The last thing you want to do is to give him an excuse to throw you in jail or rough you up. If his behaviour was way out of line you can always file a complaint with the professional standards unit of the police force involved.


This is exactly why if I was going to swear at the cop or argue I have a camera rolling. If you were to tell him "I hope you die" or somethign along those lines he surely would say thats a threat. However if you had the camera, pending the officer doesnt smash it while he roughs you up, you could show you did not.

I wasn't there for my moms traffic stop but she has no evidence anyway so I am sure any complaint she files goes straight in the trash. I wish she did as that would be considered assault with a weapon if she was to throw a piece of paper at the officer (ex: officer bubbles)..

When can the officer ask you out of a vehicles though? Can he order you out if he does not like your attittude?


I wasn't there, neither were you. Everything your mother says to you is her perception of what occurred , did the officer throw the ticket ? Maybe... but in my 10 years I'd never seen that happen. The big thing is perception and everyones is different. Assault with a weapon ... you'd have better chance of winning lotto 649. Argyll was right, if you have a complaint wait until emotions aren't high and decide if thats the route you'd like to take.

Getting into a dispute on the roadside with an officer isn't a wise idea unless you want your vehicle inspected from top to bottom or to end up with a court date and I can almost guarantee they could find more reasons to lay even more charges under HTA if they do an inspection. The majority of officers out there (even traffic cops) are good people doing their job properly and within the confines of the law. Yes there are bad apples as there are in any profession, plain and simple.

To answer you , no they cannot order you out of the car for your attitude but as the passenger having an attitude and swearing at the cop playing ''tough guy'' won't help your moms situation as the driver/owner.


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Re: What Can I say to the officer during a traffic stop
PostPosted: Tue Aug 01, 2017 9:56 pm 
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I look at it this way. I pull someone over and I can do two things..Write a ticket or write a warning.

Guess go tends to get tickets and who tends to get warnings.

OPS


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Re: What Can I say to the officer during a traffic stop
PostPosted: Tue Aug 01, 2017 11:08 pm 
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Well, my questions have been answered so I guess this thread is pretty much closed.

I can honestly say I have never been let off with a warning. Even when the officer was in the wrong they gave me the tickets and I can promise I was quite pleasent.

I know my attittude towards the police was soured when I was working downtown Toronto and I was issued a ticket against my license for a parking sign. At the time the police were hiding around corners and waiting for delivery and service guys to jump into their vehicles. I guess the cops didnt care as loading docks will not allow you to enter and the underground parking lots ceilings were too low to drive into. I took it to court and the JP rolled his eyes when he read the name and the ticket. It was reduced to a parking ticket...... That was the one time I honestly would have liked to have told the officer where to go.

Thanks for the replies.


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Re: What Can I say to the officer during a traffic stop
PostPosted: Fri Aug 04, 2017 6:47 am 
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I would say, yes you could

"Causing disturbance, indecent exhibition, loitering, etc.
175. (1) Every one who
(a) not being in a dwelling-house, causes a disturbance in or near a public place,
(i) by fighting, screaming, shouting, swearing, singing or using insulting or obscene language,"


ShrekTek wrote:
Can you swear at a police? Yes. There is no charge they can charge you with for swearing at them. Is it a good idea? Probably not, as it may lead to them finding other violations that they might have overlooked otherwise.

Personally (as a wannabe freedom fighter) I subscribe to the be polite, but don't answer questions philosophy. I am only obligated to provide my drivers license, insurance and registration when asked. I am not obligated to answer any questions. People seem to feel the need to explain their situation but usually this just ends with them proving themselves to be guilty.

Google the following and read up on your rights:
ontario know your rights talking to police

_________________
--------------------------------------------------------------
* NO you cant touch your phone
* Speeding is speeding
* Challenge every ticket
* Impaired driving, you should be locked up UNDER the jail


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Re: What Can I say to the officer during a traffic stop
PostPosted: Mon Aug 07, 2017 7:58 pm 
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OPS Copper wrote:
I look at it this way. I pull someone over and I can do two things..Write a ticket or write a warning.

Guess go tends to get tickets and who tends to get warnings.

OPS


I have always been extremely polite to every cop that pulled me over, and I always got a ticket :(


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Re: What Can I say to the officer during a traffic stop
PostPosted: Tue Aug 08, 2017 8:44 am 
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Then you have been very unfortunate.

_________________
Former Ontario Police Officer. Advice will become less relevant as the time goes by !


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Re: What Can I say to the officer during a traffic stop
PostPosted: Sat Aug 12, 2017 8:52 am 
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A few years ago, I was driving home from Florida with my father. My mother, wife and kids had flown home because of pressing schedules, so I offered to drive home with my dad (I had the flexibility to do that in those days). I was pulled over by a state trooper in West Virginia for driving somewhere around 80 mph in what I thought was a 70-mph zone, but was a 60. It's a curvy, mountainous area. The officer approached on the right to protect himself from traffic. My father started mouthing off to the officer; I elbowed him in the side to get him to shut up. After the officer took my licence, registration and insurance to his car, I told my father NEVER to act that way with a police officer. When I saw the officer returning a few minutes later with a yellow piece of paper, I knew I was receiving a ticket.

Instead, the officer came back to my father's window and said something along the lines of "I know you're anxious to get home and you're used to looking at the big white numbers on your speedometer, not the little blue ones. I'm giving you a warning [in WV, warnings are done on the same form as tickets, so they're in the system]. The next 20 miles or so are really twisty; that's why the limit is only 60 through here. Just try to keep close to that and you'll be fine." I smiled and thanked the officer.

I'm sure if my father hadn't been in the car with me, I would have received a ticket, even though I was polite with the officer. It was obvious I was driving him home from a vacation or winter stay in a warmer place and wasn't just a guy in his early 50's driving through the middle of nowhere. Then again, the fact I was polite and contrite helped either way. The irony is we had switched drivers only about fifteen minutes earlier after filling the car.


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