HTA 144(18) Came to a full stop at the intersection in the left turn lane, the light turned green and I pulled forward into the intersection and stopped to wait for a clearing to turn left. A van to my left actually turned left, what I assumed was jumping the green, and I saw the officer proceed into the intersection. The officer pulled into the intersection in front of me flashed his lights, sounded his siren and waived for me to proceed with my left turn and pull over. I didn't notice there was a separate light for left turns. I was unfamiliar with that intersection as I live two hours away. Officer wrote on the ticket " Failed to stop at red light". I admit I was wrong, but even the officer suggested I speak to the prosecutor to ask for the charge to be lessened to "signal confusion". Do I need to attend court to contest the ticket first, or can I just contact the prosecutor's office and plead guilty to the lesser charge. I would like to avoid driving back to Toronto from London several times. Is there any possible way I can get all this cleared up in one trip?
HTA 144(18)
Came to a full stop at the intersection in the left turn lane, the light turned green and I pulled forward into the intersection and stopped to wait for a clearing to turn left.
A van to my left actually turned left, what I assumed was jumping the green, and I saw the officer proceed into the intersection.
The officer pulled into the intersection in front of me flashed his lights, sounded his siren and waived for me to proceed with my left turn and pull over.
I didn't notice there was a separate light for left turns.
I was unfamiliar with that intersection as I live two hours away.
Officer wrote on the ticket " Failed to stop at red light".
I admit I was wrong, but even the officer suggested I speak to the prosecutor to ask for the charge to be lessened to "signal confusion".
Do I need to attend court to contest the ticket first, or can I just contact the prosecutor's office and plead guilty to the lesser charge.
I would like to avoid driving back to Toronto from London several times. Is there any possible way I can get all this cleared up in one trip?
1:You can go to the court on Markham road.(very busy) There follow the line to 1rst attendance meeting.(take a #) You will get to talk to a prosecutor and tell them what happened and what the cop said. They might reduce your charge right there. 2:Write everything you can remember about the incident most importantly about what the cop said. Check option 3(and do whatever it says to do) Wait for court date. If the cop is there try to get him to say how confusing the signals are,and that he said it could be lowered . Either option you have to attend at least one time. Cheers Viper1
jasonf wrote:
HTA 144(18)
Came to a full stop at the intersection in the left turn lane, the light turned green and I pulled forward into the intersection and stopped to wait for a clearing to turn left.
A van to my left actually turned left, what I assumed was jumping the green, and I saw the officer proceed into the intersection.
The officer pulled into the intersection in front of me flashed his lights, sounded his siren and waived for me to proceed with my left turn and pull over.
I didn't notice there was a separate light for left turns.
I was unfamiliar with that intersection as I live two hours away.
Officer wrote on the ticket " Failed to stop at red light".
I admit I was wrong, but even the officer suggested I speak to the prosecutor to ask for the charge to be lessened to "signal confusion".
Do I need to attend court to contest the ticket first, or can I just contact the prosecutor's office and plead guilty to the lesser charge.
I would like to avoid driving back to Toronto from London several times. Is there any possible way I can get all this cleared up in one trip?
1:You can go to the court on Markham road.(very busy)
There follow the line to 1rst attendance meeting.(take a #)
You will get to talk to a prosecutor and tell them what happened and what the cop said.
They might reduce your charge right there.
2:Write everything you can remember about the incident most importantly about what the cop said.
Check option 3(and do whatever it says to do)
Wait for court date.
If the cop is there try to get him to say how confusing the signals are,and that he said it could be lowered .
Either option you have to attend at least one time.
Cheers
Viper1
"hang onto your chair when reading my posts
use at your own risk"
Thanks Viper1 I just want to make sure I have everything straight. 144 (18) being absolute liability, intent has nothing to do with a conviction. Just possibly the fine. So my big decision is: A, Take the first attendance meeting and say thank you very much for whatever the prosecutor offers me. If he offers me nothing then take it to court, plead guilty and beg for lenience or hope the officer doesn't attend. B, Go to trial, hope the officer does not show up, the prosecutor offers a deal right before trial or that the judge takes pity on me. Either way it can't get much worse than the ~$325 ticket. One remaining question is not about guilt or innocence. I fully admit to making a mistake, but one that apparently gets made all the time according to the officer and the fact we saw someone pulled over in the same spot 20 minutes beforehand. For the fine will the JP consider the poorly designed light sequence/signage a reason to dismiss it or give a very low fine? The officer already let me know the prosecutor will likely amend the charge to something lesser. From my discussion with the officer this intersection is a major problem. Would showing several tickets written for the same infraction at that intersection relevant and how would I prove this? I would rather not make this the officer's word against mine. Can I request other tickets from that intersection during disclosure or do I need to file a FOI request?
Thanks Viper1
I just want to make sure I have everything straight.
144 (18) being absolute liability, intent has nothing to do with a conviction. Just possibly the fine.
So my big decision is:
A, Take the first attendance meeting and say thank you very much for whatever the prosecutor offers me. If he offers me nothing then take it to court, plead guilty and beg for lenience or hope the officer doesn't attend.
B, Go to trial, hope the officer does not show up, the prosecutor offers a deal right before trial or that the judge takes pity on me.
Either way it can't get much worse than the ~$325 ticket.
One remaining question is not about guilt or innocence. I fully admit to making a mistake, but one that apparently gets made all the time according to the officer and the fact we saw someone pulled over in the same spot 20 minutes beforehand. For the fine will the JP consider the poorly designed light sequence/signage a reason to dismiss it or give a very low fine? The officer already let me know the prosecutor will likely amend the charge to something lesser.
From my discussion with the officer this intersection is a major problem. Would showing several tickets written for the same infraction at that intersection relevant and how would I prove this? I would rather not make this the officer's word against mine. Can I request other tickets from that intersection during disclosure or do I need to file a FOI request?
for others to assist you, please provide the following: - the names of the roads at this intersection - describe the intersection better (how many lanes there are), direction of travel etc. If I see someone pulled over in a particular location (for whatever reason) I certainly remember that location for future, especially the same day
jasonf wrote:
Came to a full stop at the intersection in the left turn lane, the light turned green and I pulled forward into the intersection and stopped to wait for a clearing to turn left.
A van to my left actually turned left, what I assumed was jumping the green, and I saw the officer proceed into the intersection.
for others to assist you, please provide the following:
- the names of the roads at this intersection
- describe the intersection better (how many lanes there are), direction of travel etc.
but one that apparently gets made all the time according to the officer and the fact we saw someone pulled over in the same spot 20 minutes beforehand.
If I see someone pulled over in a particular location (for whatever reason) I certainly remember that location for future, especially the same day
Above is merely a suggestion/thought and in no way constitutes legal advice or views of my employer. www.OHTA.ca
They'll probably offer you a deal of "Improper Stop," or "Stop Wrong Place," HTA 144 (5) - at least I think that is the section. Probably not, but I don't think it would hurt. It could point to bad intersection design, or it could point to just bad driver behaviour. You'd need to show that it is not just inattentive or aggressive driving, but rather that the intersection suckers drivers into making mistakes. Unless the traffic lights are angled really weirdly, there is very poor visibility, etc., that's an uphill battle. You'd probably need the Ontario Traffic Manual and you would need to show all of the evidence that this intersection does not meet its standards. In other words, it would take a LOT of work and it still would be iffy when it goes to trial. A lot of tickets being written at one intersection does not necessarily mean that the intersection design is bad. Example: Brampton. Lots of well-designed intersections, but people simply run red lights, again and again, and again and again and again. (As shown by the fact that AllState recently revealed it is the most dangerous place in Ontario to which to drive, and the Drive Test Centre there has the highest failure rate in the province.)
jasonf wrote:
A, Take the first attendance meeting and say thank you very much for whatever the prosecutor offers me. If he offers me nothing then take it to court, plead guilty and beg for lenience or hope the officer doesn't attend.
B, Go to trial, hope the officer does not show up, the prosecutor offers a deal right before trial or that the judge takes pity on me.
They'll probably offer you a deal of "Improper Stop," or "Stop Wrong Place," HTA 144 (5) - at least I think that is the section.
jasonf wrote:
For the fine will the JP consider the poorly designed light sequence/signage a reason to dismiss it or give a very low fine?
Probably not, but I don't think it would hurt.
jasonf wrote:
From my discussion with the officer this intersection is a major problem. Would showing several tickets written for the same infraction at that intersection relevant and how would I prove this?
It could point to bad intersection design, or it could point to just bad driver behaviour. You'd need to show that it is not just inattentive or aggressive driving, but rather that the intersection suckers drivers into making mistakes. Unless the traffic lights are angled really weirdly, there is very poor visibility, etc., that's an uphill battle. You'd probably need the Ontario Traffic Manual and you would need to show all of the evidence that this intersection does not meet its standards. In other words, it would take a LOT of work and it still would be iffy when it goes to trial. A lot of tickets being written at one intersection does not necessarily mean that the intersection design is bad. Example: Brampton. Lots of well-designed intersections, but people simply run red lights, again and again, and again and again and again. (As shown by the fact that AllState recently revealed it is the most dangerous place in Ontario to which to drive, and the Drive Test Centre there has the highest failure rate in the province.)
* The above is NOT legal advice. By acting on anything I have said, you assume responsibility for any outcome and consequences. *
http://www.OntarioTicket.com OR http://www.OHTA.ca
ok well here is my story .. I had an old megaphone from alarm system and decided since my horns on my car were rusted and were not making a loud enough sound.. i connected the alarm megaphone to the horn wires and it sounded very cool. depending on how log i hold my horn down for . due to the size of the power horn.. and mhy car being a Honda.. meaning no room under the hood i had installed it…
So I got this ticket because the lady behind me was WAY too close and I had to back up before getting hit by another car and dented her bumper.
Offense is stated as follows: Start from Stopped position - Not in Safety
Highway Traffic Act 142 (2)
First of all, I don't really know what that means and if it says that I was not in safety (which I wasn't) why am I getting a ticket? And why didn't the…
This is my first time ever getting a ticket and I am completely frustrated and don't know what to do.
On July 7th, I was driving to work, taking my usual route and it's about a 15 minute drive for me. At the first red light, I noticed I had a bit of time thanks to the countdown so I quickly reached into my bag to grab a lip balm. I noticed I had brought the wrong one so I just kept it out and…
It happened last December. I was facing north in the middle of the intersection at Donmills and McNicoll waiting to make a left turn. There was a big white van on the other side of McNicoll facing south waiting to turn left too. When the light changed to amber, I checked and the road was clear, there was no upcoming vehicle. So slowly I made the left turn. Suddenly a small car dashed up from…
First off, the most similar case and HELPFUL thread has y far come from neo333: a great read and very similar and relevant to my case and of course ticketcombat.com
I'll cole's notes this so that it can be concise and can recap my experience with disclosure, notes and failed stay request and adjourned court date. Thank you for reading and leaving your opinion.
I got a notice in the mail that trial is set four weeks from today, so it's time to request disclosure. I have zero chance of getting an 11b since trial is less than two months after the offense date and the officer did not reduce the charge. I really want to try and create delays on the trial, to reduce the chance of the officer showing up on multiple occasions. Is there any known loop-holes…
Got my first ticket last Thursday and I have a couple of questions. I was driving westbound on Moore St. (west of Bayview) and made a left onto a residential street at a 4-way stop sign. It was my first time driving through that area - was driving my girlfriend to a wisdom tooth surgery.
The police were set up to catch people, as that intersection had a no left turn sign from 7-9 am (buses…
I was in a light collision with a police vehicle last November and will be having a trial by the end of the month. What happened was I was pulled over. I stopped and kept my right signal on. The cop car then tried to pull behind me when he was on my left but 2 cars pulled behind me. The cop wasn't too smart and instead of waiting for the two cars to pull away, he drove forward and boxed all the…
A friend of mine (who is from China and with no knowledge of English at all) asked me to interpret for him on court.
He got pulled over by a stealth patrol car last october, got 3 tickets (fail to show insurance card, using cell phones and fail to stop on right for emergency vehicle) , court date is next week. He told me his insurance expired for less than a month and other charges are false…
My husband was driving my car and passed a school bus with flashing lights. He did not realize this until he was past the bus. The driver honked at him but there were no cops nearby and he didn't get pulled over. I believe the driver or witnesses reported this and we got issued a ticket in the mail. The ticket is under my name as the registered owner: charged with Fail to Stop for…
I have just got a ticket (Fail to yield on through highway) and by the way it's me first ticket and this is how I got it.
Me driving in a residential neighborhood maybe 10-15 km/h approaching a stop sign completely stopped at the stop sign started moving again turning right and out of nowhere I was hit by this van. he went directly to the driver's side fender,wheel, and bumper. Since it was my…
Hi I'm new to this forum but I hope I'm bringing you all good news.
I recently wrote a book short titled ABUSE OF POWER
This book is all about how the Ontario government broke the law to enact the new street racing legislation.
To start with the denial of the right to remain innocent until proven guilty was enacted without due process under the Charter of Rights and Freedoms. How it wasn't done…
So i lent my car to my gf the other day and she went to drop her friend at a Go station but when she was turning left into the parking lot at the Go station a bus hits her from behind while she was turning so now my rear fender is pushed in and more scrathes and my bumper is damaged...but the cop that showed up just kept telling my gf thats its her fault cause its private property...is that true…
Hi, thanks for reading. I've read a bunch of articles online and searched the forum to try and find my answers but I'm still unsure so I'm creating a new thread.
I was following a car that was going SUPER fast down the DVP but I got pulled over. I was speeding, too; however I don't want to use the "you got the wrong guy" defence because I'll probably lose.
I left my home at 4 am to pick up my daughter from downtown Toronto. When I passed the major intersection south of my house there were two police cars in the middle of the intersection and one officer waved me through the intersection.
When I returned with my daughter at 5:30 am the police cars were still in the intersection. I slowed down as I approached the intersection but the police were no…
I will be representing my wife at her speeding trial next week. Mostly everything is pretty much run of the mill but since she wasn't speeding we will be having her take the stand. Since this opens up the opportunity for the prosecutor to cross examine, I am just wondering if anyone here knows what kind of questions we should expect from the prosecutor in order to best prepare.
When the court sends out the notice of trial, do they use the address the officer wrote on the ticket, or the actual address in the MTO database? In the case of the former, what are the implications? The reason I ask is that my wife got a ticket last week and the officer wrote the wrong city on it.
This topic discusses the same thing but with CN police; is it any different for regular offences?
Driving onto ramp entering a major highway, posted limit is 100km/h, suggested ramp limit is 40km/h - I end up colliding with the concrete barrier on the passenger side of the vehicle.
Police arrive, suspect alcohol and breathalyze me with a result of 0.00 - I am asked for a statement and cautioned, however (stupidly) I proceed to provide the details anyways.
My friends and I were heading to Kelso Beach, I had signalled and i pulled off to the shoulder as my car seemed to be making noise, but after riding over the shoulder the noise stopped, i signalled back again and merged back into traffic after making sure it was safe, the officer which was ahead of me on the shoulder a few meters away pulled me over.…
I've decided to fight a traffic ticket for stop sign violation. The offense was 12 months ago, and I've got a court date for next Tuesday. I've requested disclosure and, although a bit last minute, received it two weeks before my court date.
Upon reviewing the case materials, there isn't much of a defense I can find -based on the cop having an obstructed view, or any mistakes in the…
I will be going to trial for my red light camera offence.
I'll be arguing two issues, centered on the fact that there are two essential elements of 144(18) - a) a vehicle approaching the intersection shall stop; and b) the vehicle shall not proceed until green. Both essential elements must be contravened beyond a reasonable doubt to be an offence.
1) My ticket says I (being the owner) am "charged…
I'm a newbie, so be kind if I'm messing up. Question: is it illegal to signal oncoming traffic that they are approaching a speed trap by flashing one's lights?
I ask because I was stopped for doing that yesterday evening, but did not end up with a ticket. The officer spend 5-10 minutes n his car, then sent me on my way. I'm wondering if he changed his mind or found out it was legal.
ok well here is my story .. I had an old megaphone from alarm system and decided since my horns on my car were rusted and were not making a loud enough sound.. i connected the alarm megaphone to the horn wires and it sounded very cool. depending on how log i hold my horn down for . due to the size of the power horn.. and mhy car being a Honda.. meaning no room under the hood i had installed it…