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Ontario Highway Traffic Act

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PostPosted: Thu Apr 15, 2010 10:25 am 
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This brand new officer has more than likely been on the job for 8 or mor months.

Pre police college at OPP hq

Police college 13 weeks

Post police college at HQ

OJ training riding with a coach officer


Being on the job 3 day really has no bearing. If you are trained to lay criminal charges you can also lay HTA ones.

Like it or not the officer is trained in his job and acting within those powers. Everyone has to start somewhere.

ops


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PostPosted: Thu Apr 15, 2010 1:15 pm 
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Thanks guys for those links and information - very helpful and we really appreciate it.

WOW!!!! - thats insane - this is why these laws should not be in place, it gives the officer too much power and that guy was infact writing bogus tickets - WOW - unreal! :evil:

Another interesting point I wanted to share with you guys was that when we went to the impound to get back his van, the tow truck driver (who by the way was selected by the OPP Officer) was insisting that we pay in CASH only - so that we could avoid paying taxes!!! We refused, and said we want to pay the taxes, and we want a proper receipt! He gave us a big song and dance about not being able to accept credit cards. He eventually gave in and brought us to a car repair shop where the guy there reluctantly accepted his credit card.

The tow truck driver (who also is the owner of the impound lot) said he had no office and he had no posted rates for impound - he just threw numbers at us. Is he not supposed to have the rates posted? How can he run the credit card thru another "unrelated" business as he was telling us? Are there set rates for impounding the car that you guys are aware of? I want to check if he charged properly for the 7 day impound or if he ripped us off. I have sneaking suspicion that he scammed us and ripped us off.

Why would a "legit" towing business working for the OPP be so instant on us paying CASH and no taxes? Why would he offer for us a way to escape paying taxes if he works under contract for the OPP? Its illegal, its tax evasion - and yet he's working under contract to the OPP? Something is fishy here. My father-in-law also told me the tow truck driver was saying to him "be nice to her (the OPP officer) - she's really nice and she's being watched and its her third day on the job" - how would he know all this? How would he know that she's nice and that she's being watched? She was only 3 days on the job, how could he have such information about her unless he already knew her? Why did the OPP officer choose his specific privately owned towing company from all the companies out there? There's too many questions here and it does not smell right to me.

In addition to this, when we left the impound lot with the van, there was 2 OPP officers sitting on the side of the road. We got the impression they were sitting there waiting to get paid, or waiting to see if we would "cause a problem". Why would their be OPP sitting in a commercial area well out of the way of any major highway or OPP station? They were in Richmond Hill outside a privately owned impound lot. Is this normal? I never see OPP in these types of areas ever! I do howerver see York Regional Police in these areas very often.

What do you guys make of all this? I have copies of the towing receipt where he kept fudging the numbers and raising the price because we wanted to have a receipt. He really really wanted us to pay in CASH with no taxes and no receipt.


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PostPosted: Thu Apr 15, 2010 11:04 pm 
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Cash only and no receipt?! File a complaint. A big one. And be sure to let Revenue Canada and some fairly high-up people in the OPP know about that.

As for the rest of the stuff... that's odd. But definitely start by getting the word out to the proper authorities about the towing company. That is beyond illegal and if there's anything else going on, it will be discovered. Another place to talk to would be the Ministry of Consumer Services:

http://www.sse.gov.on.ca/mcs/en/pages/default.aspx

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* The above is NOT legal advice. By acting on anything I have said, you assume responsibility for any outcome and consequences. *
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PostPosted: Fri Apr 16, 2010 9:49 am 
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Radar Identified: thanks for confirming my suspicions. Do you know where I can find out what the proper rates are for the tow and the days in the impound lot? I want to find out if he ripped off my father-in-law. He had no posted rates, no office, and the only way we were finally able to get him to let us pay by credit card was when he walked us over to a car repair shop on the other side of the impound lot where the guy there reluctantly took the credit card.

You mentioned to let the higher ups in the OPP know about this, do you know whom I could contact and get actual results? Thanks.


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PostPosted: Fri Apr 16, 2010 9:58 am 
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Location: In YOUR rearview mirror!
Most areas I have worked has a tow association and just ask for next tow on list. The one I am in now does not, so just get the closest tow to the location stopped, unless specific tow needed (ie: extended cab tow, CAA, heavy tow)

Being by a compound is not so uncommon, some collisions require a technical collision investigator who measures depths of dents on vehicles, seatbelt usage, pulls the vehicles "black box" etc.. all from vehicles inside the compound.

Also another officer could have been coming from court, CFS, doing an interview etc and just met up with the officer that was going to the compound at a convenient place. Might be 2 officers from totally different areas passing along mail.

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PostPosted: Fri Apr 16, 2010 12:09 pm 
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clyrrad wrote:
You mentioned to let the higher ups in the OPP know about this, do you know whom I could contact and get actual results?


Call the detachment the officer is based out of (probably either Downsview or Aurora) and ask to speak to a Staff Sergeant. Any problems, ask for an Inspector. If I were in your shoes, I'd discuss the interaction with the tow company at the impound lot first. The main thing is, they should not be doing any towing for the police. That's for starters.

Revenue Canada would also be very interested in someone saying "oh well if you pay me in cash, you don't have to pay taxes," repeatedly changing the receipt and then hesitantly taking you over to pay by credit card. Good move on your part - your credit card company would have a record of the payment.

As for towing/impound rates, they vary by operator, unfortunately. There is no set rate, as far as I know.

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* The above is NOT legal advice. By acting on anything I have said, you assume responsibility for any outcome and consequences. *
http://www.OntarioTicket.com OR http://www.OHTA.ca


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PostPosted: Fri Apr 16, 2010 1:28 pm 
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Location: In YOUR rearview mirror!
Radar Identified wrote:
clyrrad wrote:
You mentioned to let the higher ups in the OPP know about this, do you know whom I could contact and get actual results?


Call the detachment the officer is based out of (probably either Downsview or Aurora) and ask to speak to a Staff Sergeant. Any problems, ask for an Inspector. If I were in your shoes, I'd discuss the interaction with the tow company at the impound lot first. The main thing is, they should not be doing any towing for the police. That's for starters.


Most detachments in southern Ontario have an "Administrative Manager" which is a Sgt who takes care of questions like this and respond/investigate accordingly.

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Last edited by hwybear on Fri Apr 16, 2010 6:08 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Fri Apr 16, 2010 1:31 pm 
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Radar Identified wrote:
If I were in your shoes, I'd discuss the interaction with the tow company at the impound lot first. The main thing is, they should not be doing any towing for the police. That's for starters.
The tow company and impound lot are owned by the same guy. Its a tow truck driver that has his own impound lot. He has no office, no real phone number - the only number he lists is one that goes to a dispatch center who pages him and he calls you from his cell phone. There is no one (IE a Boss or Supervisor) that I could escalate this to at his company.

Can you also clarify what you meant in the lat part about "they should not be doing any towing for the police" - I didn't quite follow you on that.


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PostPosted: Fri Apr 16, 2010 3:15 pm 
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hwybear wrote:
Most detachments in southern Ontario have an "Administrative Manager" which is a Sgt who takes care of questions like this and respond/investigate accordingly.


Good to know... that would be the place to start then...

clyrrad wrote:
The tow company and impound lot are owned by the same guy. Its a tow truck driver that has his own impound lot. He has no office, no real phone number - the only number he lists is one that goes to a dispatch center who pages him and he calls you from his cell phone. There is no one (IE a Boss or Supervisor) that I could escalate this to at his company.


Sorry, bad choice of words on my part.

What I meant was, you should tell the OPP Administrative Manager about your interaction with the guy at his lot before mentioning the other stuff.

As for not doing any towing for the police... put another way: OPP should not be contracting with him or calling him to tow any vehicles.

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* The above is NOT legal advice. By acting on anything I have said, you assume responsibility for any outcome and consequences. *
http://www.OntarioTicket.com OR http://www.OHTA.ca


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Re: 153 In A 100 Zone (Highway 404 Southbound In Richmond Hi
PostPosted: Tue Feb 15, 2011 9:35 pm 
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Cool, new forums since I was here last - looks good :)

I just wanted to send you all an update on this case. So my father-in-law finally got his day in court for these two charges. We had to send 5 requests for disclosure before we got any response, and when the prosecutors office did finally respond, they gave us disclosure 3 days before the trial!!! We have been requesting his disclosure for months and months and months and they only give it to us 3 days before the trial? That does not seem right...

Regardless - with that said, the court date came 3 days later. We were there from 8:30am until 1:30pm waiting for his trial to start. At 1:30 they told us that not only had we wasted our whole day in court, but that they were not going to grant him a trial. He made numerious requests to the court that they grant him his trial since he was there since 8:30 am - but they refused and instead they pushed his trial date back until April.

It is now over a year since he was he was initially pulled over, he had his license suspended, his car towed and impounded - and now he's lost yet another day of work in court (plus parking costs at the court house I might add) - he's suffered enough and they still wouldn't grant him a trial or throw out the case.

From researching this forum and other online resources I understand he now has the ability to file to have the case dismissed due to that fact its taken so long to get a trial - the fact he was only given disclosure 3 days before trial and the fact they could not grant him his original trial date even though he made repeated requests to get the trial over and done with.

Could any of you guys chime in on this and let us know your thoughts are? What paper work we should be looking to have filed to have the case dismissed? I understand from initial reading we should be looking at filing for a section 11 to get the case dismissed? Can any of you point us to the proper resource or information so we can see about getting the case which is long over due dismissed?

Sorry its taken so long to get back to you guys with any news on this case - but you see this is how slow the courts work - we will both really appreciate any help you guys can give us. Thanks.


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Re: 153 In A 100 Zone (Highway 404 Southbound In Richmond Hi
PostPosted: Tue Feb 15, 2011 11:07 pm 
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Here's our "in house" information on how to file an 11B:

topic2952.html

If it has been more than 1 year from the date of the offence, it is likely that the 11B will succeed.

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Re: 153 In A 100 Zone (Highway 404 Southbound In Richmond Hi
PostPosted: Fri Feb 18, 2011 8:02 pm 
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Just for giggles, ask them to reimburse you for the day off work...........and your impound fees..........................waiting for bear to comment............

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Re: 153 In A 100 Zone (Highway 404 Southbound In Richmond Hi
PostPosted: Thu Feb 24, 2011 9:48 pm 
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Thanks Radar Identified - I see I have some reading cut out for me here - appreciate the link thanks again.


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Re: 153 In A 100 Zone (Highway 404 Southbound In Richmond Hi
PostPosted: Mon Feb 28, 2011 3:21 pm 
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Ok - UPDATE -

We have created all the Section 11B documents (6 bound documents) prepared and TABBED in the exact order from all the reading you've link us to - THANKS A MILLION!

Question - the links refer to serving the various agencies but it talks about Toronto. I am referring to:
1) Department of Justice
2) Attorney General of Ontario
3) Ontario Court of Justice
4) The Prosecutors Office

Given that his court will be in the Tannery Mall in Newmarket - does he actually have to go to Toronto and file with all the Toronto locations? Or can those 4 departments be served the documents somewhere in York Region - preferably Newmarket?


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Re: 153 In A 100 Zone (Highway 404 Southbound In Richmond Hi
PostPosted: Wed Mar 23, 2011 4:00 pm 
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To keep this thread updated, I will post the answers to my own questions in the hopes that it can help someone else.

Here are the answers to questions 1 thru 4 (I found out that in my last post the order of who to serve first was wrong for questions 3 & 4 - below is the proper order).

The offices that must be served (in proper order) are:

1) Department of Justice (Attorney General of Canada) - from reading you can serve this office by Fax, but we served them one of the books we created since they were already printed. We served their Toronto office which is located in the Exchange Tower at 130 King St, Suite 3400 Toronto Ontario M5X 1K6

2) Attorney General of Ontario - from reading you can serve this office by Fax, but we served them one of the books we created since they were already printed. We served their Toronto office which is located in the McMurtry-Scott Building at 720 Bay Street. That building has crazy security so you cant go to their office. You have to use the phone they have in the lobby, just look up the extension for the "Constitutional Branch" then ask them to send a clerk to come stamp your "Constitutional Challenge"

3) The Prosecutors Office - these guys are located on the 2nd floor in Suite 266 in the Tannery Mall at 465 Davis Drive in Newmarket. We had the actual prosecutor stamp the books since the woman working at the desk told us that her stamp was no good for a "Part 3" - no idea what that is, but the prosecutor himself put his stamp on each of the books.

4) Ontario Court of Justice (Provincial Offenses Office) - these guys are located on the 2nd floor in Suite 200 in the Tannery Mall at 465 Davis Drive in Newmarket. These are the last guys to serve and be prepared to wait in a LONGGGGGGGGGG Line of frustrated fellow citizens while you watch the clerks in each 3 booths take more breaks than you'll ever get at any other job - they kept closing their booths for breaks - they have just 3 booths and most of the time there was just one person at a time "working". Be prepared to be annoyed / frustrated / and have a long wait to get your books stamped.

I hope this helps........

Now I still have a last question of what happens from here - now that the 11B is filed what do we have to do?


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