I was recently stopped for going 88 km/h in a 60 km/h posted zone. The officer reduced the charge to 70 km/h in a 60 km/h zone. When I drove by that area the next day, brand new signs stating 80 km/h were posted. I can't be certain what was posted the previous night but I'm sure the officer will say he did a check and the sign listing the speed limit as 60 km/h was clearly posted. I went to my region's website and found that the local by-law was amended 7 days before. With that being said, I know a speed limit change is not in effect until a sign is posted. Long story short, when I read the supporting documentation for this speed limit amendment, it stated that the speed limit on the section I was traveling on was 'remaining' at 80 km/h. In fact, there was never a by-law changing this to a 60 km/h zone! My question is this: 1. If the sign did indeed say 60 km/h but the speed of that stretch of the road was and always should have been 80 km/h, is this grounds for either dismissal or an amendment of my charge to 88 km/h in an 80 zone? If so, can anyone point me to case law where a speeding ticket was thrown out or amended because an incorrect speed limit sign was posted?
I was recently stopped for going 88 km/h in a 60 km/h posted zone. The officer reduced the charge to 70 km/h in a 60 km/h zone.
When I drove by that area the next day, brand new signs stating 80 km/h were posted. I can't be certain what was posted the previous night but I'm sure the officer will say he did a check and the sign listing the speed limit as 60 km/h was clearly posted.
I went to my region's website and found that the local by-law was amended 7 days before. With that being said, I know a speed limit change is not in effect until a sign is posted.
Long story short, when I read the supporting documentation for this speed limit amendment, it stated that the speed limit on the section I was traveling on was 'remaining' at 80 km/h. In fact, there was never a by-law changing this to a 60 km/h zone!
My question is this:
1. If the sign did indeed say 60 km/h but the speed of that stretch of the road was and always should have been 80 km/h, is this grounds for either dismissal or an amendment of my charge to 88 km/h in an 80 zone? If so, can anyone point me to case law where a speeding ticket was thrown out or amended because an incorrect speed limit sign was posted?
From what I can determine, this would be the best to use (taken from http://www.canlii.org/eliisa/highlight. ... cj183.html) "Boyd-Gibbons v. Skinner, [1951] 1 All E.R. 1049 (U.K.K.B.)" - the Court set aside an acquittal at trial, holding that the presence of the speed limit signs, which must be deemed to have been lawfully erected by the local authority (being obligated to do so), was prima facie proof that a direction had been given under the highway traffic legislation, and in the absence of evidence to displace that proof, the Respondent should have been convicted. Therefore, it is assumed from the presence of a speed limit sign that there is an appropriate underlying by-law. It is not the prosecutor's responsibility to prove this, but rather my responsibility to show there is no underlying by-law. If I can show this (which I can), the speeding ticket could be either thrown out or amended to 88 km/h in an 80 km/h. For the record, if the ticket it amended and not thrown out, I will write every traffic ticket organization, every paralegal, and our local paper advising everyone that tickets given in that zone all need to be amended or thrown out! Am I correct in my legal reasoning above? Am I bring to vindictive by bringing this to everyone's attention if I win?
"Boyd-Gibbons v. Skinner, [1951] 1 All E.R. 1049 (U.K.K.B.)"
- the Court set aside an acquittal at trial, holding that the presence of the speed limit signs, which must be deemed to have been lawfully erected by the local authority (being obligated to do so), was prima facie proof that a direction had been given under the highway traffic legislation, and in the absence of evidence to displace that proof, the Respondent should have been convicted.
Therefore, it is assumed from the presence of a speed limit sign that there is an appropriate underlying by-law. It is not the prosecutor's responsibility to prove this, but rather my responsibility to show there is no underlying by-law. If I can show this (which I can), the speeding ticket could be either thrown out or amended to 88 km/h in an 80 km/h.
For the record, if the ticket it amended and not thrown out, I will write every traffic ticket organization, every paralegal, and our local paper advising everyone that tickets given in that zone all need to be amended or thrown out!
Am I correct in my legal reasoning above? Am I bring to vindictive by bringing this to everyone's attention if I win?
#1 why do you think that a speed limit is not in effect unless there's a sign for it? That's just incorrect. #2 I'm not sure how much traction you'd have with a 60 year old case from the UK. If the JP didn't agree with the reasoning, they'd just say they weren't bound by it, which they're not. #3 If the actual posted signage was wrong at the time you committed the offence, you'd probably have a great argument for the defence of officially induced error #4 If the road you were traveling on was actually an 80 and you can prove that, then that's the speed limit for the purpose of the charge you're facing at trial
#1 why do you think that a speed limit is not in effect unless there's a sign for it? That's just incorrect.
#2 I'm not sure how much traction you'd have with a 60 year old case from the UK. If the JP didn't agree with the reasoning, they'd just say they weren't bound by it, which they're not.
#3 If the actual posted signage was wrong at the time you committed the offence, you'd probably have a great argument for the defence of officially induced error
#4 If the road you were traveling on was actually an 80 and you can prove that, then that's the speed limit for the purpose of the charge you're facing at trial
That's what's listed in the Highway Traffic Act, Section 128: No by-law passed under this section or regulation made under clause (7) (c) becomes effective until the highway or portion of it affected by the by-law or regulation, as the case may be, is signed in accordance with this Act and the regulations. Without a sign, would the posted limit be the default for that region (i.e. 80 km/h in rural, and 50 km/h in urban)? I wasn't aware of that. Thanks for poiting that out. That's what I figured. Do you know of any case law or government law that supports this, or do you feel this is just obvious? Am I correct then in this statement: If the speed limit on a road is 60 km/h, a by-law changing it to 80 km/h is only effective once it's signing is changed from 80 km/h to 60 km/h? Once signed as 80 km/h, any deviation from this must be accompanied by either: i - a change in the underlying by-law, or ii - the speed limit changed according to Highway Traffic Act 128(8), which would also require signed designation that this road was a construction zone? In other words, if a by-law was passed on March 1st and signed on March 8th, the speed limit changes on March 8th - correct? Thanks for the response.
Simon Borys wrote:
#1 why do you think that a speed limit is not in effect unless there's a sign for it? That's just incorrect.
That's what's listed in the Highway Traffic Act, Section 128:
No by-law passed under this section or regulation made under clause (7) (c) becomes effective until the highway or portion of it affected by the by-law or regulation, as the case may be, is signed in accordance with this Act and the regulations.
Without a sign, would the posted limit be the default for that region (i.e. 80 km/h in rural, and 50 km/h in urban)?
Simon Borys wrote:
#2 I'm not sure how much traction you'd have with a 60 year old case from the UK. If the JP didn't agree with the reasoning, they'd just say they weren't bound by it, which they're not.
I wasn't aware of that. Thanks for poiting that out.
Simon Borys wrote:
#3 If the actual posted signage was wrong at the time you committed the offence, you'd probably have a great argument for the defence of officially induced error
That's what I figured. Do you know of any case law or government law that supports this, or do you feel this is just obvious?
Simon Borys wrote:
#4 If the road you were traveling on was actually an 80 and you can prove that, then that's the speed limit for the purpose of the charge you're facing at trial.
Am I correct then in this statement: If the speed limit on a road is 60 km/h, a by-law changing it to 80 km/h is only effective once it's signing is changed from 80 km/h to 60 km/h? Once signed as 80 km/h, any deviation from this must be accompanied by either:
i - a change in the underlying by-law, or
ii - the speed limit changed according to Highway Traffic Act 128(8), which would also require signed designation that this road was a construction zone?
In other words, if a by-law was passed on March 1st and signed on March 8th, the speed limit changes on March 8th - correct?
Re #1: you are correct, without signage it defaults to 50/80 Re #3: I don't know if there is any case law on officially induced error with respect to speed signage, there's just the generic case law which sets out the defence, which you would then argue applies to this situation. This is not a simple matter to argue and I would suggest you contact and consult with a lawyer or paralegal on it.
Re #1: you are correct, without signage it defaults to 50/80
Re #3: I don't know if there is any case law on officially induced error with respect to speed signage, there's just the generic case law which sets out the defence, which you would then argue applies to this situation. This is not a simple matter to argue and I would suggest you contact and consult with a lawyer or paralegal on it.
I searched but could not retrieve a satisfactory answer.
It seems matter-of-fact that all sorts of work equipment, namely backhoes, loaders and other similar mororized vehicles without licence plates, sometimes equipped with a slow moving vehicle sign, often not, some with an amber beacon, some without, are encountered on a highway, travelling under their own power, sometimes on multi-lane roads…
Hello everyone I'm not sure if this is the right place to put it but I need some answers as I'm very scared and don't know what to do. Recently if got a Novice Driver B.A.C Above zero I am 23 years old and I'm pretty due to get my G class license in a couple of weeks. I understand that I was wrong for drinking a beer and half and driving with a G2 Class license.
I have been reading Fight Your Traffic Ticket site and have a couple of comments.
I was issued two tickets at the same time, one for invalid left turn (Hwy 7 in Markham and Swansea). Another one, because the officer did not like my copy of registration documents.
I am planning to challenge it in the court. Actually I already submitted the request.
Hi, I have a court date Oct. 21,08 for parking in the fire route of my friends building. How can i get this $100 fine reduced or eliminated? only argument i really have is that visitor parking was full and i went around a few times. I wasn't there for long either.
+
I just got a ticket for going right on red fail to stop(114[18])$180. No pedestrians were in the way. I'm not a unsafe driver, so I'm…
My mom received a ticket under OHTA 159(1). She was turning left at an intersection. The light was green and there were no cars in front of her. She entered the intersection and waited for incoming traffic to clear so that she could complete the turn. As she waited, a fire truck with its sirens on was driving from the street onto which she was turning (perpendicular). He honked at her (presumably…
Basically, I was selling the car and I informed the buyer that the car was in not insured at the time.
He bought dealer plates from his work place and assured me that it was fine. We got pulled over by OPP and they asked for our information.
I explained that it was my car and the test driver was working at a dealership with his plates that has insurance, they told us that the plates don't apply
The other day I was given a ticket for speeding 119 in a 90, on highway 17 near Marathon, ON (Speeding ticket capital of the universe, BTW). The officer claims to have "clocked" me using the vehicle mounted radar at 121 KMH and dropped it (presumably to lower fine and demerits).
I was not going that fast, but there was a larger, and faster moving, vehicle behind me, gaining fast (I was driving a…
Location: 401 exit to Homer Watson Blvd, Kitchener/ Cambridge.
I was going on 401. When I was approaching the location mentioned at the topic, I tried to over take a truck in front of me, and realized a car tailgating me right after I went out to the fast lane. At first I thought it was some other fast drivers so I just thought that I would go back into the middle…
Hey, i recently got a ticket for failing to stop a red light (Section 114(18)).
I was travelling south, the cop was travelling north. He was on the other side of the intersection then me, my light turned yellow and i tried running it but it turned red before i could cross the line. I was going too fast to be able to stomp the break so i had to run it through.
I'm just curious how long will a Driving while suspended affect my insurance rates? Initially when I got my conviction with DWS my rates went from 180 a month to 390, since then I've had no tickets or even been pulled over and my rates have gone down to 240 since then. I believe it will be 3 years in Sept 2017. Will the DWS affect my insurance for 6 years because thats how long it stays on my…
It's winter, and there's been a cold snap. The highway you are traveling on is wet, but not slippery. You take your exit, but the salt trucks haven't been on this ramp, and despite slowing down to below the recommended speed, your car slips on some black ice, and you find the car rotating clockwise. The car rotates 180 degrees, and slides backwards off the ramp…
So about a month ago I received a stunt/racing charge for going 140 in an 80 zone. I decided to go with a paralegal, and was notified by the paralegal that on the summon's it states to go to a criminal court. The paralegal was confused as this should be at a Provincial court. They said that since I do not have any criminal charges, that the officer wrote the wrong address down including…
I got a careless driving ticket and I was involved in quite a serious accident. I was driving at about 60 km/h arriving towards a stop sign. Unfortunately when I tried to stop, my shoes were sliding off from my foot as they did not have any strap and were perhaps oversized and slippery. I could not stop at the sign and hit a van that had the right of way. Both vehicles were badly damaged and…
In some cases, it takes too long for the Crown to bring a charge against a defendant to trial. If your charge has taken too long to come to trial, you can stop the proceedings by "filing an 11B." This is filing paperwork to bring a motion at your trial, where you essentially say, "my rights to a speedy trial have been violated, and I want the case stopped." It is called an 11B because section…
Hi I'm new to this forum but I hope I'm bringing you all good news.
I recently wrote a book short titled ABUSE OF POWER
This book is all about how the Ontario government broke the law to enact the new street racing legislation.
To start with the denial of the right to remain innocent until proven guilty was enacted without due process under the Charter of Rights and Freedoms. How it wasn't done…
I have been caught 3 times driving while suspended for unpaid fines . I have still not paid the fines and did not go to the first 2 court dates. When I was pulled over the second time the police officer said he would put down as it was my first time . But I had to work as I just started a new job. I called in to have the date changed but they said it was to late . So I did not go to court .…
Today I received a hand held device ticket on Gardiner. I was pulled over by the police officer and told i was using my cell phone while driving but i never even touched my cell phone. He told me my hand was not on steering. I am sure i didn't touch the phone. The phone was on the right passenger seat connected to my car. I was using mobile gps which was on dashboard display and never touched…
As the title states, I received a ticket for failing to proceed at a green light. I have gained a lot of knowledge from this site for various things, however even a google search of this ticket doesn't seem to pull up much info. Someone else had made a post about this back in 2009 but my story is quite different.
So I shall explain...
On the night of February 23/2013 I had decided to be the…
Need some advice on reaching a plea deal with the prosecutor and how to go about talking to the crown. I'm not here to be lectured ect. I'm aware I made a mistake, and need advice on fixing it. So kindly keep comments about my impulsive decision to yourself.
Backstory:
I'm 19 with a g2 license. Was going home late at night and decided to go down a road that I knew was smooth with zero traffic so I…
I recently got pulled over and issued a ticket for following too closely and am looking to challenge the charges. However, I will be at school by the trial date. This is significant because I received the ticket in Ottawa (where my family lives), but attend school in Waterloo (almost 6 hours away). I will also be starting co-op this summer and as such likely won't be returning home in order to…
I was charged with careless driving for a one-vehicle accident, and would like to know how to go about pleading not guilty. I was driving on a rural road at night in an 80 kmh zone. I was driving up a hill. At the top of the hill is a 90 degree turn sign (no stop sign, no kmh posted). I hit the brakes too late, and because the road goes downhill and there's a lot of gravel, skidded one or two…
Not sure the right place for this so if it needs to be moved please do so.
I was stopped today for 15 over the speed limit, I gave all the documents to the officer and he said he could not accept a photocopy of my ownership only the original I had a photo copy front and back and I had my plate sticker number with it.
he gave me a ticket for HWY ACT Section 7(5)(a) he said only the original would…
Tonight, I was pulled over for apparently doing 132km in an 80km zone. Although I'd only caught myself doing 120km(yes, still over, I'm aware). After about 30 min of sitting on the side of the road, the officer came over and kindly decided not to take away my license or impound the car on the spot. I did not recieve any fines. He did, however, give me a court date in August. Never mentioning…
I have been a frequent visitor of this site for a while now but I just made an account today to ask a question that I have gotten no real clear cut answer on in the past.
What I'm talking about here is H.I.D. (High Intensity Discharge) Headlight Conversion Kits. For those of you who don't know what they are all about you can just google it and you will receive more than enough…
