I lost my case in Toronto court 6 months ago. I was ticket by driving at 84km on a road with speed limit 60km. Police said he got the speed when my car was 220m away from his Marksman 2020 laser gun. I was driving west on a curved road. A railway bridge above the road is around 200 meters east of the laser gun (according to google map). The road before the bridge is downhill, after the bridge is uneven uphill. The police was on the upper hill to take my speed. It was the first time for me to be in court, I did not do well in the cross-examination. In court, I showed to the judge Google map, photos I took for the road and bridge, and the speed gun menu that I got from disclosure. Even though I pointed out my car was not in the same level as the speed detector and the police was not perform the detection "in line the driving direction of the car" as required in the device menu, and there were railway bridge, metal fences, so the environment was not "clear of sign" as required in the menu. But the judge did not think my arguments were valid. She had the verdict based on the following: 1. Google map cannot be used for evidence as the measurement there can not be proved to be accurate. 2. I could not prove what my driving speed was at the point when I was caught 3. Even though the road was not level, it was down and up. She believed the police was well trained, he had done the speed detection many many times correctly. Even though I provided the technical challenge, it is not enough to prove the speed detector was not accurate. I am preparing my appeal court next month, would appreciate if anyone can share caselaw with similar road condition.
I lost my case in Toronto court 6 months ago. I was ticket by driving at 84km on a road with speed limit 60km. Police said he got the speed when my car was 220m away from his Marksman 2020 laser gun. I was driving west on a curved road. A railway bridge above the road is around 200 meters east of the laser gun (according to google map). The road before the bridge is downhill, after the bridge is uneven uphill. The police was on the upper hill to take my speed.
It was the first time for me to be in court, I did not do well in the cross-examination. In court, I showed to the judge Google map, photos I took for the road and bridge, and the speed gun menu that I got from disclosure. Even though I pointed out my car was not in the same level as the speed detector and the police was not perform the detection "in line the driving direction of the car" as required in the device menu, and there were railway bridge, metal fences, so the environment was not "clear of sign" as required in the menu.
But the judge did not think my arguments were valid. She had the verdict based on the following:
1. Google map cannot be used for evidence as the measurement there can not be proved to be accurate.
2. I could not prove what my driving speed was at the point when I was caught
3. Even though the road was not level, it was down and up. She believed the police was well trained, he had done the speed detection many many times correctly. Even though I provided the technical challenge, it is not enough to prove the speed detector was not accurate.
I am preparing my appeal court next month, would appreciate if anyone can share caselaw with similar road condition.
An appeal is NOT a new trial, meaning you do not get another chance to challenge the officer or the evidence against you. An appeal is saying that somebody (JP, prosecutor) did something wrong and that you want to challenge that. You need to read thru the entire transcript, line by line, and highlight anything that you think is incorrect. I think somewhere, i some caselaw, I have read that the courts can take judicial notice of google maps. If you can find one that says this, then you can argue that the JP made an error and should have accepted the google map and therefore the reading can't be accurate if there was a bridge between you and the officer. Maybe others know more about the google map thing. In Ontario the caselaw basically says that a police office only has to say they were qualified and say they beleive the device to be working correctly, and the JP will pretty much side with them everytime. You would need to have had your own expert witness to testify on your behalf about the inaccuracies of the device.
An appeal is NOT a new trial, meaning you do not get another chance to challenge the officer or the evidence against you. An appeal is saying that somebody (JP, prosecutor) did something wrong and that you want to challenge that.
You need to read thru the entire transcript, line by line, and highlight anything that you think is incorrect.
I think somewhere, i some caselaw, I have read that the courts can take judicial notice of google maps. If you can find one that says this, then you can argue that the JP made an error and should have accepted the google map and therefore the reading can't be accurate if there was a bridge between you and the officer. Maybe others know more about the google map thing.
In Ontario the caselaw basically says that a police office only has to say they were qualified and say they beleive the device to be working correctly, and the JP will pretty much side with them everytime. You would need to have had your own expert witness to testify on your behalf about the inaccuracies of the device.
I am not a lawyer and I am not a paralegal and I do not give legal advice.
All statements made are my opinion only.
Thanks ShrekTek. I have read through the transcript, I want to argue that the judge did not consider the fact that the road is curved, not level. I have seen some posts that the police is not supposed to use speed detector on a curved road as it may not be accurate. I read the book "The law on Speeding and Speed detection Devices", it also mentioned the police is not recommended to detect speed on curved road. So I just want to see if there is any caselaw for reference.
Thanks ShrekTek. I have read through the transcript, I want to argue that the judge did not consider the fact that the road is curved, not level.
I have seen some posts that the police is not supposed to use speed detector on a curved road as it may not be accurate. I read the book "The law on Speeding and Speed detection Devices", it also mentioned the police is not recommended to detect speed on curved road. So I just want to see if there is any caselaw for reference.
If you are on a curved road then the radar will display a lower speed than you are travelling. It's simple physics (math ?) And will be able to be explained by any officer under cross examination.
If you are on a curved road then the radar will display a lower speed than you are travelling. It's simple physics (math ?) And will be able to be explained by any officer under cross examination.
Former Ontario Police Officer. Advice will become less relevant as the time goes by !
If you're basing your appeal on the fact that the Lidar was "inaccurate" you're going to have a very difficult time. From you description it sounds like the officer was not level with the path of travel and off to the side. This would produce a cosine angle affect that would put the reading displayed as lower than how fast you were actually travelling. Google "police lidar and cosine" for information. Radar and lidar are both subject to cosine from elevation and angle off of the path of travel.
If you're basing your appeal on the fact that the Lidar was "inaccurate" you're going to have a very difficult time. From you description it sounds like the officer was not level with the path of travel and off to the side. This would produce a cosine angle affect that would put the reading displayed as lower than how fast you were actually travelling.
Google "police lidar and cosine" for information. Radar and lidar are both subject to cosine from elevation and angle off of the path of travel.
Agreed. Unless you stop you car on the feet of the officer in a perfectly straight line, everything is technically going to be "on an angle", "curved", etc. The error you are trying to prove benefits the driver. The device measures Point A to Point B in a straight line. What you are essentially saying by bringing up this argument is that you were travelling even faster than the recorded speed.
Agreed.
Unless you stop you car on the feet of the officer in a perfectly straight line, everything is technically going to be "on an angle", "curved", etc.
The error you are trying to prove benefits the driver. The device measures Point A to Point B in a straight line.
What you are essentially saying by bringing up this argument is that you were travelling even faster than the recorded speed.
I got ticket for failing to stop at stop sign in Toronto. i heard that the police officer must see the stop line, if there is one, from where he was sitting. That is exactly my case, Is it a strong case? If so do i need a picture to show that there is a stop line and a picture to show that he could not see the stop line from where he was sitting?
I got a ticket, Disobey stop sign, sec 136.1.a on dec 6th
I made a left in an intersection and was pulled over by a police officer in an unmarked car who had been sitting down the road. A classic fishing hole situation. I was genuinely surprised when he stopped me and told me I went through a stop sign without even slowing down. I know to shut up and be polite and take the ticket. I…
Yesterday morning, I rear-ended someone. I was going the speed limit. The sun was directly in front of me and it blinded my windshield and my eyes. At the same time, the person in front of me stopped/slowed down (also due to the sun). I started to slow down but didn't stop and I hit them since I couldn't see anything. I was not driving too close initially. I…
I was driving in the county at night and hit a limousine stretched out side ways across the road. The limo had its lights on and had side lighting as well. The police officer charged me with careless driving because it was "fully lit up".
It took me to the next day to figure out what had happened - what I remember made no sense. What I had run across was a "false visual reference" illusion.
I was on hwy 37 trying to make my girlfriends ganadmas mass and I live an hour away and I had an hour to get there so I was going fast but not 50 over untill some idiot got on my tail soo close that I was to concentrated on him that I kept going faster untill I got pulled over at 147 on an 80 km hwy.
I alreaddy lost 3 points and this time was just the…
Hello, got stopped today for rolling a stop sign. Ticket says failure to stop, but quotes hta 1361b.
Doesn't 1361b mean failure to yield?
Is this a fatal error? Or could it be amended at trial. How can I prepare a defence if I don't know if I'm defending the failure to stop or the failure to yield?
After he was providing me with a ticket for failure to obey to the stop sign (I am pretty sure I stopped but less than 3 seconds recommended by my driver ed. instructor), I know everybody say that..as an excuse.
Then he stopped me again to return the documents.
Any advice and feed back would be really appreciated.
Can you get evidence for whether someone had an advanced green at an intersection? My dad was making a right turn on a red (after stopping) into a plaza parking lot. He got hit by someone making a left turn from the opposite lane. The driver told the officer called to the collision that he had an advance green. My dad said he came out of nowhere which makes me…
So i was driving on Eglinton Avenue East near Rosemount Ave.
The school bus was on the the curb on the opposite side of the road while i was travelling on the middle lane of the three-laned Eglinton Avenue East (five lanes apart plus a raised median island seperating the traffic)
I could not see the school bus as my view of the bus was being obstructed by the cars in front of me and on my left hand…
Lots of good information on getting disclosure from the Crown here.
Now, I am just wondering if I will be relying upon evidence of my own at trial... do I have to voluntarily send this material to the Crown in a reasonable time before the trial, or only if they request disclosure from me?
This morning I had an exam for university. I was studying the entire night and i wanted to catch like maybe 1-2 hours of sleep before the exam so i went to sleep. I woke up like 5 hrs after and realize that I was about to miss my exam. I still could have made it so I asked my dad for his car since I was in a huge rush and he gave it to me.
I went on the highway and I was going at 135 km/h but…
the police officer was in in the opesite oncumming lane he was fallowing another car so close that i was not even able to see his cruser till he was buy he said that i was going 111 in a 80 he said he hade me on radar he only asked for me drivers licencs and never asked for my insurence so on the ticket there no insurence dose enyone think i can beat this i wana take it to cort becuse he was…
Hi I have a couple questions so I'll explain my situation and any advice would be appreciated.
Can't remember exact date so lets call it some time in 2008 I got a fine for $5000.00 for driving without in insurance. I never paid the fine and in 2012 I was pulled over and the officer asked to see my license. Although I had it on me I figured it would be under suspension for the unpaid fine from…
Alright, so I did something really stupid the other day, I was driving down a country road and wanted to hit the curves so I passed 3 cars at once, inadvertently making it up to very much past 50 over (80 limit)... Much to my chagrin there was a cop coming in the opposite direction who immediately skidded on the gravel shoulder and who I thought was 100% going to turn around and pull me over,…
Anyone know how backed this courthouse is? I submitted my ticket for trial at the end of August, and still no letter. Im scared it got lost in the mail, can i call the courthouse and find out my courtdate? Or would i have to go in personally?
I recently received a ticket for failure to use low beams - while following - Ticket was issued Sec 168 (
- it was on the 401 and no one was within 500 meters of me, I was warning a oncoming vehicle that there was an officer hiding (which is not illegal or I could not find a law against it) it was a police vehicle travelling at very high rate of speed in the opposite direction with no lights on…
I received a warning letter from MTO for a 2pts ticket.What happened is that the police officer issued a "unsafe left turn" and then changed the ticket to "failed to signal" at the scene, but she submitted both tickets!!! And I !!!ONLY!!! received the latter ticket from her(I requested trial for "failed to signal"). I recently received notice from MTO that I'm convicted for "unsafe left turn".
Hello everyone! I was given a ticket for using a hand-held communication device while driving. It was 3 am, I was at a stop light and the cop saw me with the my phone in my hand. I told him i was just checking the time on it. I received the notes a few weeks ago ill copy them down below. Any help is appreciated although i believe there's no hope for me. The cop recorded me saying what phone i…
I got pulled over about 15 or so days ago the court till this date has not received the summons what is the legal time period that the court has to follow to accept the summons from the office court says its 15 days is the legal timeframe the officer has to serve it on the court
I requested for disclosure of information two months ago.
I received the radar manual after one month, but not others (including maintenance/calibration record of the radar, certificate of police training). On further pursuit, the prosecutor told me that he did not have them and he did not see why I needed these documents. He said he did not know where to get them when I asked.
Last Friday I was pulled over by an OPP motorcycle cop who informed me I was going 134. I was on the SB 404, I did see him parked under a bridge and when I passed him he was not on his bike.
I'm hoping to get some insight for a defense in this case.
I was in lane 1 and I had a car in front of me, and a car behind me, also there was a car speeding down Lane 3 passing everyone and moved quickly into…
