CVSA/CMV Info



Off_Camber
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by: Off_Camber on
Fri Jul 30, 2010 10:52 pm

i tried getting a forum for commercial vehicle violations. I work as a commercial truck driving driving instructor at a very reputable and large transport training school and have over 20 years commercial experience.
And as for hours of service, I actually had a Motor Carrier Enforcement officer at the scale tell me he didnt even know the full rules for the hours of service. Its more complicated than it needs to be.

Needs to be very simplified. you drive for 13, and off for 8. get rid of this 10 hour rule and 36 hr reset nonsense. the old systym was easier to understand, all Canada was trying to do was sync with the US hours of service.


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Simon Borys
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by: Simon Borys on
Fri Jul 30, 2010 11:06 pm

Off_Camber wrote:Its more complicated than it needs to be.
I completely agree! The laws about CMV's in general are quite complicated, but hours of service regulations are beyond ridiculous. I can tell you from my experience that not all MTO officers and very, very few police officers understand them enough to charge anyone for violating them.

What's the point in having laws that are too complicated to enforce?
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The Trucker
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by: The Trucker on
Wed Aug 25, 2010 6:59 pm

Simon is there a definition of Heavy Trucks in Ontario Highway Traffic Act. Do you know it ?
Is there a By-law from the city of Mississauga with that definition. Do you know it ?
I could not find anything ?
I do found one from the city of Sault Ste Marie and one from Vaughan .They are different.


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Simon Borys
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by: Simon Borys on
Wed Aug 25, 2010 11:52 pm

I believe the definition of heavy truck is synonymous with commercial motor vehicle (GW or RGW over 4500 kg), unless otherwise specified by by-law. I'm not sure though. I will post here if I can find a more concrete answer.
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The Trucker
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by: The Trucker on
Fri Aug 27, 2010 12:53 am

Thank you for the post Simon

The definition is for Heavy Vehicle , not Heavy trucks.

“heavy vehicle” means a vehicle, including a bus but not including a school bus, as defined
under the Highway Traffic Act, with a gross vehicle weight of 3,000 kilograms (3 tonnes)
or greater

Here is my point - I was cited braking this sign under Ontario Highway Traffic. Act

Truck Sign
33. A No Heavy Trucks sign shall,
(a) be not less than 60 centimetres in width and not less than 60 centimetres in height; and
(b) bear the markings and have the dimensions as prescribed and illustrated in the following Figure:

could not paste the picture here

If there is no definition for Heavy Trucks I could argue that I was not heavy at the time ,the truck was empty.(It sounds obvious that a tractor trailar is a heavy truck ,on the other hend empty is lighter than a straight truck for example )Could this be a legitimate point if there is no definition ?It sounds very simplistic

Here is the definition from Vaughan BY-LAW NUMBER 284-94

(g) "heavy truck" means a commercial motor vehicle having a weight when unloaded,
of three tonnes or more, or when loaded, of five tonnes or more, but does not
include a passenger vehicle, an ambulance or any vehicle of a police or fire
department;

Here is the one from THE CORPORATION OF THE CITY OF SAULT STE. MARIE
BY-LAW 2008-139

"'Heavy Truck' means a public vehicle that is properly registered to operate on a
highway in the Province of Ontario having a gross vehicle weight as licensed
pursuant to the Highway Traffic Act in excess of 13 tonnes or exceeding 12.5
metres (12.5m) in length but does not include an ambulance, a hearse, a fire
apparatus, a police vehicle or a motorbus."

They are all different .
Last edited by The Trucker on Fri Aug 27, 2010 9:08 am, edited 3 times in total.


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Simon Borys
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by: Simon Borys on
Fri Aug 27, 2010 8:42 am

I think the definition of heavy vehicle includes heavy truck.

However, given the discrepancies amongst the definitions and the lack of a clear definition in the HTA, you may want to consider taking it to trial and forcing the crown to prove that you met the definition of heavy truck that the sign was referring to. Remember that the onus is on them to prove, not you to disprove.

You could just let them present their evidence at trial and if they don't talk about the definition, that would be a good question to ask the officer. "Officer, what is the definition of "heavy truck" under the HTA? How did you determine that I met the definition?" I doubt they'll have an answer.
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The Trucker
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by: The Trucker on
Fri Aug 27, 2010 4:57 pm

Sounds to easy ( suspiciously) to be true :)
If somebody knows definition for heavy trucks in Ontario Highway traffic Act please post
:)


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by: pvotrainer on
Fri Oct 29, 2010 10:47 am

The HTA does not define a heavy vehicle or heavy truck. It mentions it in section 110 by making the driver responsible for damaging a highway. Ontario Regulation 615 - Signs and Ont Reg 147 - Toll Highways define a heavy truck in regards to what vehicles must use a transponder. Both of these set the weight at the Gross Weight or Registered Gross Weight being greater than 5000 kgs.

When it comes to a weight restriction for a section of highway, such as a residential area, you have to refer to the Municipal By-law that authorizes the posting of the sign. That by-law will define the weight and it usually refers to loaded and unloaded weights. Check under the parking by-laws as well if you can't find it easily. Check with your city clerk's office.


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hwybear
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by: hwybear on
Fri Oct 29, 2010 11:20 am

pvotrainer wrote:The HTA does not define a heavy vehicle or heavy truck. It mentions it in section 110 by making the driver responsible for damaging a highway. Ontario Regulation 615 - Signs and Ont Reg 147 - Toll Highways define a heavy truck in regards to what vehicles must use a transponder. Both of these set the weight at the Gross Weight or Registered Gross Weight being greater than 5000 kgs..
Where is 615 is this?
I would expect no heavy truck to include any CMV with a RGW over 4,500kgs....that would make it simple across the board
Above is merely a suggestion/thought and in no way constitutes legal advice or views of my employer. www.OHTA.ca


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beleafer81
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by: beleafer81 on
Fri Oct 29, 2010 12:17 pm

I have a question. I drive a 2005 GMC safari cargo van my company supplies for work, fully marked with company signage. There are a few roads in Ottawa like Ottawa river parkway, Island park drive, colonal By drive, ect that have signs posted "no comercial vehicles - $110 fine". Do I drive a "comercial vehicle" according to that law (its insured as a comercial vehicle)? How can I find out? Is it just a by-law or would it be HTA related offence? I assume it would apply to heavy vehicles like a big delivery truck or something, but the sign says "comercial Vehicles" I have asked a Ottawa police service officer and she said she didn't know because that wasnt her beat. I usually see RCMP patroling those roads.
It's not what you know, it's what you can prove - Alonzo Harris (Denzel Washington) in Training Day


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hwybear
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by: hwybear on
Fri Oct 29, 2010 4:03 pm

Every pickup or vehicle with a delivery body is a commercial motor vehicle by definition.

However, for CMV offences to apply, the RGW (registered gross weight, >>LOOK on the ownership <<) has to be OVER 4,500kgs.
Above is merely a suggestion/thought and in no way constitutes legal advice or views of my employer. www.OHTA.ca


pvotrainer
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by: pvotrainer on
Fri Oct 29, 2010 5:47 pm

[quote]Where is 615 is this?
I would expect no heavy truck to include any CMV with a RGW over 4,500kgs....that would make it simple across the board[/quote]


That was in response to THETRUCKER's post. He was charged under the HTA for heavy truck, likely 182(2) Disobey Sign. Ont. Reg 615 describes the signs permitted to be used on a highway.

Making the HTA simple is like trying to bring logic into policing. The HTA uses 4500 kgs for some weights, 4601 and 4800 for others.


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Simon Borys
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by: Simon Borys on
Sat Oct 30, 2010 3:43 pm

hwybear wrote:Every pickup or vehicle with a delivery body is a commercial motor vehicle by definition.

However, for CMV offences to apply, the RGW (registered gross weight, >>LOOK on the ownership <<) has to be OVER 4,500kgs.
Or greater than 4500 kg actual weight transmitted to the ground by all 4 wheels, including any weight incidentally transferred by virtue of the fact that the vehicle is towing a trailer.

But, there is a personal use exemption for pickup trucks with GVWR's under 6,000 kg, but that doesn't apply to a business.
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