A few recent posts had me confused about the options you can pick on the back of tickets. Looks like there have been some changes made as of March 31st, 2012. Option 1 - Plea of Guilty Option 2 – Early Resolution (Meeting with Prosecutor) Option 3 – Trial Option So it looks like Option 2 no longer locks you into a guilty plea and allows for the pre trial resolution. Just though I'd share as an FYI.
A few recent posts had me confused about the options you can pick on the back of tickets. Looks like there have been some changes made as of March 31st, 2012.
Option 1 - Plea of Guilty
Option 2 – Early Resolution (Meeting with Prosecutor)
Option 3 – Trial Option
So it looks like Option 2 no longer locks you into a guilty plea and allows for the pre trial resolution.
If you choose Option 2 now and then decide to go to trial after speaking with the prosecutor, does this mean the clock for an 11B filing would start from the day you have your early resolution meeting instead of from when you were actually charged?
If you choose Option 2 now and then decide to go to trial after speaking with the prosecutor, does this mean the clock for an 11B filing would start from the day you have your early resolution meeting instead of from when you were actually charged?
from my experience through 11b pre-trial motion, was that neither the date you were charged nor the early resolution meeting was when the clock starts the JP at my trial ruled it's the day you filed your tickets at the sardine office, and expressed your intent to fight the charges the first attendance was ruled to be merely part of the trial process, and it was your intent to have a speedy/early resolution to save the court's time however it's something you'll have to argue at trial, i'm not sure if there is case-law regarding how the 11b clock works w.r.t. early resolution meetings
from my experience through 11b pre-trial motion, was that neither the date you were charged nor the early resolution meeting was when the clock starts
the JP at my trial ruled it's the day you filed your tickets at the sardine office, and expressed your intent to fight the charges
the first attendance was ruled to be merely part of the trial process, and it was your intent to have a speedy/early resolution to save the court's time
however it's something you'll have to argue at trial, i'm not sure if there is case-law regarding how the 11b clock works w.r.t. early resolution meetings
in Toronto do you have to specifically request a first attendance with the prosecutor? When I received my court date there was no mention of it. I have already faxed the prosectuor for disclosure but I would like a first attendance to see if I can get an early resolution. Do I just fax the prosecutor requesting one or do I have to do something formal at the court? Thanks
in Toronto do you have to specifically request a first attendance with the prosecutor? When I received my court date there was no mention of it. I have already faxed the prosectuor for disclosure but I would like a first attendance to see if I can get an early resolution. Do I just fax the prosecutor requesting one or do I have to do something formal at the court?
In the past though, you expressed your intent to fight the charges by choosing option 3 right at the beginning and separately requested a meeting with the prosecutor. Now it seems like you are only expressing your intent to fight the charges after the meeting so does it make it easier for the prosecutor to argue that the time period up to the meeting doesn't count? I'm just wondering if this is a response by the courts to an increase in 11B applications to counter the rulings that have reduced the time period for the 11B process to become an option?
iFly55 wrote:
from my experience through 11b pre-trial motion, was that neither the date you were charged nor the early resolution meeting was when the clock starts
the JP at my trial ruled it's the day you filed your tickets at the sardine office, and expressed your intent to fight the charges
In the past though, you expressed your intent to fight the charges by choosing option 3 right at the beginning and separately requested a meeting with the prosecutor. Now it seems like you are only expressing your intent to fight the charges after the meeting so does it make it easier for the prosecutor to argue that the time period up to the meeting doesn't count?
I'm just wondering if this is a response by the courts to an increase in 11B applications to counter the rulings that have reduced the time period for the 11B process to become an option?
It probably was changed in hopes of adding some efficiency to speed up the process. They can now avoid booking trials for people who simply want to work out a deal with the Crown. I think the change was in the works since prior to the recent 11b rulings. It was added through the most recent Good Government Act.
It probably was changed in hopes of adding some efficiency to speed up the process. They can now avoid booking trials for people who simply want to work out a deal with the Crown.
I think the change was in the works since prior to the recent 11b rulings. It was added through the most recent Good Government Act.
http://www.ontariocourtforms.on.ca/engl ... -act-forms The example for the form 4 appears to be updated with the correct wording for the back of the ticket. Haven't seen a real one yet.
11b motion delay calculations, if I'm not mistaken, are being made based on the R. v. Andrade case. http://canlii.ca/t/fn8jv I too wonder how the new Option will change the clock calculations.
11b motion delay calculations, if I'm not mistaken, are being made based on the R. v. Andrade case. http://canlii.ca/t/fn8jv
I too wonder how the new Option will change the clock calculations.
It's not a question of opting in. The old forms remain valid until March 31, 2013. If you're interested in seeing why that's the case, here it is: O. Reg 108/11 (which is also s. 1(3) of O.Reg 462/11) says: Despite the revocation of Forms 1 to 7 of Regulation 949 of the Revised Regulations of Ontario, 1990 (Parking Infractions), those Forms may continue to be used, in addition to the Forms referred to in this Regulation, until the day that is one year after the day this section comes into force. O.Reg 462/11 s. 7(2) says: Sections 1 and 2 [referring to above] come into force on the later of the day subsection 7 (4) of Schedule 1 to the Good Government Act, 2011 comes into force and the day this Regulation is filed. Regulation 462/11 was filed December 9, 2011. Schedule 1 s. 7(4) of the Good Government Act, 2011 is brought into force by the s. 11(2) of that Act, which says: Subsections 1 (1), (3) and (7), sections 3 and 4, subsections 5 (1) and (3) to (6), 6 (1), (2) and (4) to (40) and 7 (1) to (9) and sections 9 and 10 come into force on a day to be named by proclamation of the Lieutenant Governor. The Table of Proclamations states that s. 7(4) of the Good Government Act, 2011 is proclaimed in force on March 31, 2012. Since this is the later date, the old forms will continue to be valid until March 31, 2013.
Decatur wrote:
FYI.
The municipality has to opt in to the early resolution program. The back of our PON's didn't change Option 2 at all.
It's not a question of opting in. The old forms remain valid until March 31, 2013.
If you're interested in seeing why that's the case, here it is:
O. Reg 108/11 (which is also s. 1(3) of O.Reg 462/11) says:
Despite the revocation of Forms 1 to 7 of Regulation 949 of the Revised Regulations of Ontario, 1990 (Parking Infractions), those Forms may continue to be used, in addition to the Forms referred to in this Regulation, until the day that is one year after the day this section comes into force.
O.Reg 462/11 s. 7(2) says:
Sections 1 and 2 [referring to above] come into force on the later of the day subsection 7 (4) of Schedule 1 to the Good Government Act, 2011 comes into force and the day this Regulation is filed.
Regulation 462/11 was filed December 9, 2011. Schedule 1 s. 7(4) of the Good Government Act, 2011 is brought into force by the s. 11(2) of that Act, which says:
Subsections 1 (1), (3) and (7), sections 3 and 4, subsections 5 (1) and (3) to (6), 6 (1), (2) and (4) to (40) and 7 (1) to (9) and sections 9 and 10 come into force on a day to be named by proclamation of the Lieutenant Governor.
The Table of Proclamations states that s. 7(4) of the Good Government Act, 2011 is proclaimed in force on March 31, 2012.
Since this is the later date, the old forms will continue to be valid until March 31, 2013.
Wonder why we got all new stock of Pon's then? We turned in all of our old ones and the new accused copy is blue instead of yellow. Our new ones are the Form 3 in the link provided.
Wonder why we got all new stock of Pon's then? We turned in all of our old ones and the new accused copy is blue instead of yellow. Our new ones are the Form 3 in the link provided.
I have researched this issue further and here is some clarification: Some services use Form 3 Provincial Offence Notices. Some services use Form 4. Both forms have changed, as of March 31, 2012. The new forms are valid as of that date. The old Form 4s are not valid at all any more, and the old Form 3s are only valid for 6 months (not 12 as I had originally stated - was reading the wrong section). There's not much difference between the old and new Form 3s, except that the defendant's copy is now blue, not yellow. Option 2 was and still is guilty with an explanation. The big change is with Form 4. Option 2 on the old form was guilty with an explanation and option 3 was trial (with the possibility of an early resolution meeting). In the new Form 4 Option 2 is now early resolution meeting, option 3 is straight to trial, and the possibility of pleading guilty with an explanation before a JP and making submissions on sentence is gone. Generally, services who used the old Form 3 will use the new one and services who used the old Form 4 will use the new one. The Ministry of the AG has informed police services that they can "opt-in" to using Form 4 (if the municipality and prosecuting agency is on board). Hope this clarifies things.
I have researched this issue further and here is some clarification:
Some services use Form 3 Provincial Offence Notices. Some services use Form 4. Both forms have changed, as of March 31, 2012. The new forms are valid as of that date. The old Form 4s are not valid at all any more, and the old Form 3s are only valid for 6 months (not 12 as I had originally stated - was reading the wrong section).
There's not much difference between the old and new Form 3s, except that the defendant's copy is now blue, not yellow. Option 2 was and still is guilty with an explanation.
The big change is with Form 4. Option 2 on the old form was guilty with an explanation and option 3 was trial (with the possibility of an early resolution meeting). In the new Form 4 Option 2 is now early resolution meeting, option 3 is straight to trial, and the possibility of pleading guilty with an explanation before a JP and making submissions on sentence is gone.
Generally, services who used the old Form 3 will use the new one and services who used the old Form 4 will use the new one. The Ministry of the AG has informed police services that they can "opt-in" to using Form 4 (if the municipality and prosecuting agency is on board).
Corporation (City of Mississauga) v. Lam, 2012 ONCJ 734 (CanLII) http://canlii.ca/t/ftxn2 It appears that when you select Option 2 - "First Attendance Meeting" after receiving your offence notice, it will be considered as a neutral delay for your 11b time calculations; it could also be considered an implicit waiver of the delay.
Corporation (City of Mississauga) v. Lam, 2012 ONCJ 734 (CanLII)
It appears that when you select Option 2 - "First Attendance Meeting" after receiving your offence notice, it will be considered as a neutral delay for your 11b time calculations; it could also be considered an implicit waiver of the delay.
On a speeding ticket I chose Option 2 - meet a prosecutor. I never heard from them until they suspended my license. I will now pay the fine in order to get my license back as soon as possible but I want to fight this. How do I go about it after the fact ?
On a speeding ticket I chose Option 2 - meet a prosecutor.
I never heard from them until they suspended my license. I will now pay the fine in order to get my license back as soon as possible but I want to fight this. How do I go about it after the fact ?
You already asked this question and you got the perfect answer. Go to the courthouse and explain to them you chose option 2 and never heard a reply. They will reopen your case.
boatpoker wrote:
On a speeding ticket I chose Option 2 - meet a prosecutor.
I never heard from them until they suspended my license. I will now pay the fine in order to get my license back as soon as possible but I want to fight this. How do I go about it after the fact ?
You already asked this question and you got the perfect answer. Go to the courthouse and explain to them you chose option 2 and never heard a reply. They will reopen your case.
quick question. On option 3 there are two check boxes. 1) for request of a trial and 2) I plan on questioning the validity of the officers evidence. I assume I check both? When I called the office they said they will request a meeting ahead of trial with the JP to review the case and possible offer a plea, I am just looking to plea the ticket down. Thanks!
quick question.
On option 3 there are two check boxes. 1) for request of a trial and 2) I plan on questioning the validity of the officers evidence.
I assume I check both? When I called the office they said they will request a meeting ahead of trial with the JP to review the case and possible offer a plea, I am just looking to plea the ticket down.
I have a problem and not sure what the hell to do about it. Few days ago I was stopped on a street going westbound against blinding afternoon sun following the flow of traffic. I drive a taxi for living in Toronto and have ACZ driver's license. I have a perfect record both for professional as well regular demerit points. I haven't been pulled over as a matter of fact in some 15 years for…
I have recently gone to court for a speeding ticket issued by an OPP officer. As it stood, the officer forgot to sign the ticket. So at my trial, before I made a plea, I pointed this out to the justice of the peace and asked that the ticket be quashed. I was asked to produce my copy of the ticket, which I gave and the JOP then agreed with me and dismissed the case. Before he did so, the…
I got pulled over (along with about 10 other cars) for going through a road closed sign. I had just pulled out of a parking lot pretty much right beside the road closed sign, and with about 4 cars behind me there wasn't much I could do but go through, so I think I have a good chance of fighting it. However, on my ticket under the Signature of issuing Provincial Offences Officer, it's left…
So here's my situation, any advice would be appreciated.
On June 26, 2013 I received a ticket for 25 over in a 60 zone
In early October I received my notice of trial (Feb 25, 2014)
In early January I sent in my request for disclosure
In late January I received a letter to pick up my disclosure, however when I picked up my disclosure it wasn't typed (I had requested it to be) and I needed…
Is there a legal requirement to report an accident to the insurer?
Scenario
- 2 vehicle accident
- each vehicle has less than $1000 damage
- each vehicle has damage roughly equal to insurance deductible
- a police Accident Report was completed
In this scenario the drivers decided to repair their own damages. But are they legally bound to report the accident and damages to the insurer? ...and out of…
I will be representing my wife at her speeding trial next week. Mostly everything is pretty much run of the mill but since she wasn't speeding we will be having her take the stand. Since this opens up the opportunity for the prosecutor to cross examine, I am just wondering if anyone here knows what kind of questions we should expect from the prosecutor in order to best prepare.
i got pulled over by a cop this morning in my kids's school zone for failure to stop at a stop sign. i am thinking of fighting this ticket, but i noticed that on the ticket itself it only says "disobey stop sign - fail to stop" and there is no mention of the demerit points. a co-worker mentioned to me that a ticket should state how many demerit points i am being docked. i know the Highway Traffic…
Alright, so this happened back awhile ago on June and I haven't appeared in Court. However, I would like some inputs and advice before I get into this battle.
Back in June I got a Speeding Ticket claiming I was going 100km/h on Blackcreek going south towards Lawrence. The Speed Limit there is 70km/h.
At this point of time, it was roughly traffic hour around 4-5PM. Coming off of the Highway, and…
Ive already done searches, read the act as best i can but still haven't read a complete answer. Where in the HTA does it state that the front license plate must be attached to the front bumper? I have it on the passenger sun visor (if ppl remember the old temp permits that taped to the pass side of windshield) i figured that this spot would be the same. However now they have got rid of…
My son was returning from school and was just entering the driveway when another vehicle hit the rear end. Police writes a ticket "fail to yield from private drive" 139(i). He is going to fight this ticket and made an application for disclosure. The trial is next week and he still hasn't received the disclosure.
He checked with the court last month and they said that they will call when disclosure…
i was travelling on the 401 (posted speed 100km/h) in the far left lane, when i caught up to a vehicle going ~110km/h. I patiently waited for the vehicle to move over a lane, but they did not. The vehicle behind me moved to the center lane to pass, but because he was a safe distance behind me, i moved into the middle lane ahead of him to pass the slower moving car. When I accelerated, i…
So I was returning from my honeymoon in Montreal, and was cruising down the 401 just inside the Ontario/Quebec border. I was passing one of the Onroute stations and saw an OPP cruiser. I checked my speed and I was doing 120. A few kilometers up the road the cruiser pulled me over and told me I was clocked doing 132 by the aircraft. I was a little surprised to see the ticket was for the full…
I made a right turn during prohibited hours (7am-6pm) in Toronto. I was ticketed by a COP who was specially watching for that trap.
After I've received the ticket HTA144(9), I discovered one of the seven digits of my license plate was incorrectly written on my ticket. I was thinking about to make a First Attendance at the court office to see the prosecutor for a reduced charge...any advice or…
Have been busy and haven't had much time to follow up on this...
Went to court having not received disclosure (and was not organized enough to apply for a stay), so the trial was adjourned. They photocopied the officer's ticket and notes and provided a log sheet from the plane. I've sent another request for the rest of the disclosure items.
So here's my question -- can an officer amend the ticket…
I am not sure if my case is really a case of " mis-use parking permit" and need some advises on whether i should fight the ticket. Here is what happened:
During the labor day long weekend, I took my parents to diner at a local shopping mall. (my father's hip was broken in 2016 and he's been on wheelchair since, the permit is in his name and I been using the permit to help him for doctor's…
I have a court date coming up where I need to subpoena one of the officers that was present when I got my ticket. The issuing officer didn't include the fact that the second one was present at the time in his report (disclosure) but did give me the second officers name and badge number after the judge told him to do it.
What I'm looking for help with is the process of me getting to…
I got pulled over on a 4 lane section fo Highway 7... Thank god I didn't get a stay at home ticket as well or my car impounded.
Officer clocked me at 156 km/h he decided not to impound my car and give me a 149 km/h since it was my first offence and he said I was polite and respectful. I would give this officer a 5/5 review if I could, very polite and respectful.
Long story short, I was driving from Toronto to Ottawa and around Napanee with my friend in two separated cars, the officer was parked on uturn. He followed us turn his light on and got between us and pulled us over, he told me that i was running at 152 km/h without showing me his LISAR. they suspended my and my friends license and impounded the two cars for 7 days. This was a Friday in January…
I'm unsure on what to do here. I was under the impression that I could request a stay on the day of trial because disclosure was not given to me in an adequate time. I requested disclosure 2x by fax, 5 months ago.
I read on ticketcombat that I had to file a motion 15 days prior to the trial to request a stay of proceedings.
Does anyone else get blinded by fog lights on rural roads? I don't seem to have a problem with them on lighted streets, but the badly aimed fog lights or ones with a poor cutoff really get to me when driving the Escort. I just came back from a 20-minute drive, and every single pickup truck had fog lights on, and forced me to focus on the bottom right of the road. My windshield is clean and…