A few recent posts had me confused about the options you can pick on the back of tickets. Looks like there have been some changes made as of March 31st, 2012. Option 1 - Plea of Guilty Option 2 – Early Resolution (Meeting with Prosecutor) Option 3 – Trial Option So it looks like Option 2 no longer locks you into a guilty plea and allows for the pre trial resolution. Just though I'd share as an FYI.
A few recent posts had me confused about the options you can pick on the back of tickets. Looks like there have been some changes made as of March 31st, 2012.
Option 1 - Plea of Guilty
Option 2 – Early Resolution (Meeting with Prosecutor)
Option 3 – Trial Option
So it looks like Option 2 no longer locks you into a guilty plea and allows for the pre trial resolution.
If you choose Option 2 now and then decide to go to trial after speaking with the prosecutor, does this mean the clock for an 11B filing would start from the day you have your early resolution meeting instead of from when you were actually charged?
If you choose Option 2 now and then decide to go to trial after speaking with the prosecutor, does this mean the clock for an 11B filing would start from the day you have your early resolution meeting instead of from when you were actually charged?
from my experience through 11b pre-trial motion, was that neither the date you were charged nor the early resolution meeting was when the clock starts the JP at my trial ruled it's the day you filed your tickets at the sardine office, and expressed your intent to fight the charges the first attendance was ruled to be merely part of the trial process, and it was your intent to have a speedy/early resolution to save the court's time however it's something you'll have to argue at trial, i'm not sure if there is case-law regarding how the 11b clock works w.r.t. early resolution meetings
from my experience through 11b pre-trial motion, was that neither the date you were charged nor the early resolution meeting was when the clock starts
the JP at my trial ruled it's the day you filed your tickets at the sardine office, and expressed your intent to fight the charges
the first attendance was ruled to be merely part of the trial process, and it was your intent to have a speedy/early resolution to save the court's time
however it's something you'll have to argue at trial, i'm not sure if there is case-law regarding how the 11b clock works w.r.t. early resolution meetings
in Toronto do you have to specifically request a first attendance with the prosecutor? When I received my court date there was no mention of it. I have already faxed the prosectuor for disclosure but I would like a first attendance to see if I can get an early resolution. Do I just fax the prosecutor requesting one or do I have to do something formal at the court? Thanks
in Toronto do you have to specifically request a first attendance with the prosecutor? When I received my court date there was no mention of it. I have already faxed the prosectuor for disclosure but I would like a first attendance to see if I can get an early resolution. Do I just fax the prosecutor requesting one or do I have to do something formal at the court?
In the past though, you expressed your intent to fight the charges by choosing option 3 right at the beginning and separately requested a meeting with the prosecutor. Now it seems like you are only expressing your intent to fight the charges after the meeting so does it make it easier for the prosecutor to argue that the time period up to the meeting doesn't count? I'm just wondering if this is a response by the courts to an increase in 11B applications to counter the rulings that have reduced the time period for the 11B process to become an option?
iFly55 wrote:
from my experience through 11b pre-trial motion, was that neither the date you were charged nor the early resolution meeting was when the clock starts
the JP at my trial ruled it's the day you filed your tickets at the sardine office, and expressed your intent to fight the charges
In the past though, you expressed your intent to fight the charges by choosing option 3 right at the beginning and separately requested a meeting with the prosecutor. Now it seems like you are only expressing your intent to fight the charges after the meeting so does it make it easier for the prosecutor to argue that the time period up to the meeting doesn't count?
I'm just wondering if this is a response by the courts to an increase in 11B applications to counter the rulings that have reduced the time period for the 11B process to become an option?
It probably was changed in hopes of adding some efficiency to speed up the process. They can now avoid booking trials for people who simply want to work out a deal with the Crown. I think the change was in the works since prior to the recent 11b rulings. It was added through the most recent Good Government Act.
It probably was changed in hopes of adding some efficiency to speed up the process. They can now avoid booking trials for people who simply want to work out a deal with the Crown.
I think the change was in the works since prior to the recent 11b rulings. It was added through the most recent Good Government Act.
http://www.ontariocourtforms.on.ca/engl ... -act-forms The example for the form 4 appears to be updated with the correct wording for the back of the ticket. Haven't seen a real one yet.
11b motion delay calculations, if I'm not mistaken, are being made based on the R. v. Andrade case. http://canlii.ca/t/fn8jv I too wonder how the new Option will change the clock calculations.
11b motion delay calculations, if I'm not mistaken, are being made based on the R. v. Andrade case. http://canlii.ca/t/fn8jv
I too wonder how the new Option will change the clock calculations.
It's not a question of opting in. The old forms remain valid until March 31, 2013. If you're interested in seeing why that's the case, here it is: O. Reg 108/11 (which is also s. 1(3) of O.Reg 462/11) says: Despite the revocation of Forms 1 to 7 of Regulation 949 of the Revised Regulations of Ontario, 1990 (Parking Infractions), those Forms may continue to be used, in addition to the Forms referred to in this Regulation, until the day that is one year after the day this section comes into force. O.Reg 462/11 s. 7(2) says: Sections 1 and 2 [referring to above] come into force on the later of the day subsection 7 (4) of Schedule 1 to the Good Government Act, 2011 comes into force and the day this Regulation is filed. Regulation 462/11 was filed December 9, 2011. Schedule 1 s. 7(4) of the Good Government Act, 2011 is brought into force by the s. 11(2) of that Act, which says: Subsections 1 (1), (3) and (7), sections 3 and 4, subsections 5 (1) and (3) to (6), 6 (1), (2) and (4) to (40) and 7 (1) to (9) and sections 9 and 10 come into force on a day to be named by proclamation of the Lieutenant Governor. The Table of Proclamations states that s. 7(4) of the Good Government Act, 2011 is proclaimed in force on March 31, 2012. Since this is the later date, the old forms will continue to be valid until March 31, 2013.
Decatur wrote:
FYI.
The municipality has to opt in to the early resolution program. The back of our PON's didn't change Option 2 at all.
It's not a question of opting in. The old forms remain valid until March 31, 2013.
If you're interested in seeing why that's the case, here it is:
O. Reg 108/11 (which is also s. 1(3) of O.Reg 462/11) says:
Despite the revocation of Forms 1 to 7 of Regulation 949 of the Revised Regulations of Ontario, 1990 (Parking Infractions), those Forms may continue to be used, in addition to the Forms referred to in this Regulation, until the day that is one year after the day this section comes into force.
O.Reg 462/11 s. 7(2) says:
Sections 1 and 2 [referring to above] come into force on the later of the day subsection 7 (4) of Schedule 1 to the Good Government Act, 2011 comes into force and the day this Regulation is filed.
Regulation 462/11 was filed December 9, 2011. Schedule 1 s. 7(4) of the Good Government Act, 2011 is brought into force by the s. 11(2) of that Act, which says:
Subsections 1 (1), (3) and (7), sections 3 and 4, subsections 5 (1) and (3) to (6), 6 (1), (2) and (4) to (40) and 7 (1) to (9) and sections 9 and 10 come into force on a day to be named by proclamation of the Lieutenant Governor.
The Table of Proclamations states that s. 7(4) of the Good Government Act, 2011 is proclaimed in force on March 31, 2012.
Since this is the later date, the old forms will continue to be valid until March 31, 2013.
Wonder why we got all new stock of Pon's then? We turned in all of our old ones and the new accused copy is blue instead of yellow. Our new ones are the Form 3 in the link provided.
Wonder why we got all new stock of Pon's then? We turned in all of our old ones and the new accused copy is blue instead of yellow. Our new ones are the Form 3 in the link provided.
I have researched this issue further and here is some clarification: Some services use Form 3 Provincial Offence Notices. Some services use Form 4. Both forms have changed, as of March 31, 2012. The new forms are valid as of that date. The old Form 4s are not valid at all any more, and the old Form 3s are only valid for 6 months (not 12 as I had originally stated - was reading the wrong section). There's not much difference between the old and new Form 3s, except that the defendant's copy is now blue, not yellow. Option 2 was and still is guilty with an explanation. The big change is with Form 4. Option 2 on the old form was guilty with an explanation and option 3 was trial (with the possibility of an early resolution meeting). In the new Form 4 Option 2 is now early resolution meeting, option 3 is straight to trial, and the possibility of pleading guilty with an explanation before a JP and making submissions on sentence is gone. Generally, services who used the old Form 3 will use the new one and services who used the old Form 4 will use the new one. The Ministry of the AG has informed police services that they can "opt-in" to using Form 4 (if the municipality and prosecuting agency is on board). Hope this clarifies things.
I have researched this issue further and here is some clarification:
Some services use Form 3 Provincial Offence Notices. Some services use Form 4. Both forms have changed, as of March 31, 2012. The new forms are valid as of that date. The old Form 4s are not valid at all any more, and the old Form 3s are only valid for 6 months (not 12 as I had originally stated - was reading the wrong section).
There's not much difference between the old and new Form 3s, except that the defendant's copy is now blue, not yellow. Option 2 was and still is guilty with an explanation.
The big change is with Form 4. Option 2 on the old form was guilty with an explanation and option 3 was trial (with the possibility of an early resolution meeting). In the new Form 4 Option 2 is now early resolution meeting, option 3 is straight to trial, and the possibility of pleading guilty with an explanation before a JP and making submissions on sentence is gone.
Generally, services who used the old Form 3 will use the new one and services who used the old Form 4 will use the new one. The Ministry of the AG has informed police services that they can "opt-in" to using Form 4 (if the municipality and prosecuting agency is on board).
Corporation (City of Mississauga) v. Lam, 2012 ONCJ 734 (CanLII) http://canlii.ca/t/ftxn2 It appears that when you select Option 2 - "First Attendance Meeting" after receiving your offence notice, it will be considered as a neutral delay for your 11b time calculations; it could also be considered an implicit waiver of the delay.
Corporation (City of Mississauga) v. Lam, 2012 ONCJ 734 (CanLII)
It appears that when you select Option 2 - "First Attendance Meeting" after receiving your offence notice, it will be considered as a neutral delay for your 11b time calculations; it could also be considered an implicit waiver of the delay.
On a speeding ticket I chose Option 2 - meet a prosecutor. I never heard from them until they suspended my license. I will now pay the fine in order to get my license back as soon as possible but I want to fight this. How do I go about it after the fact ?
On a speeding ticket I chose Option 2 - meet a prosecutor.
I never heard from them until they suspended my license. I will now pay the fine in order to get my license back as soon as possible but I want to fight this. How do I go about it after the fact ?
You already asked this question and you got the perfect answer. Go to the courthouse and explain to them you chose option 2 and never heard a reply. They will reopen your case.
boatpoker wrote:
On a speeding ticket I chose Option 2 - meet a prosecutor.
I never heard from them until they suspended my license. I will now pay the fine in order to get my license back as soon as possible but I want to fight this. How do I go about it after the fact ?
You already asked this question and you got the perfect answer. Go to the courthouse and explain to them you chose option 2 and never heard a reply. They will reopen your case.
quick question. On option 3 there are two check boxes. 1) for request of a trial and 2) I plan on questioning the validity of the officers evidence. I assume I check both? When I called the office they said they will request a meeting ahead of trial with the JP to review the case and possible offer a plea, I am just looking to plea the ticket down. Thanks!
quick question.
On option 3 there are two check boxes. 1) for request of a trial and 2) I plan on questioning the validity of the officers evidence.
I assume I check both? When I called the office they said they will request a meeting ahead of trial with the JP to review the case and possible offer a plea, I am just looking to plea the ticket down.
Hi, I am new to the forum. I have been trying to get information off of here and www.ticketcombat.com for my case.
I was given a ticket for going 122km/h in a posted 100km/h zone at Hwy 401 east at Thickson Rd in Whitby ON on April 10th, 2009.
I find this absolutely absurd, since I was in the left most lane of the 401 approximately(within 5km/h) following the speed of traffic in my lane. The guy in…
Hey this is my first ticket so as much information that people can provide will be appreciated. I was making the drive home going around 90kph(in a 80) behind what I knew was an undercover police car. The cop abruptly pulled to the side and pulled back in behind me to pull me over. Now I reduced my speed to below 80 when the cop pulled to the side but he claimed he had me clocked at 109kph and…
On Wednesday I attended court at 1530 Markham Road, courtroom E2, in order to fight my speeding ticket. My original plan was to plead not guilty, and to watch all the people who went before me, the process, the Prosecutor and the Justice Of The Peace so I could strategize and form the best plan for my defence at trial. I had done some research online and sort of knew I wanted to defend myself,…
About 5 months ago I was driving along a two-way road approaching an intersection. The road had a left/ straight turning lane and a right turning lane. There was an 18 wheel gravel truck occupying the left lane at a red light. I pulled behind the truck intending to drive straight. After not moving for about 1 second, I check my rear view mirror, signaled and changed lanes to the right…
I am currently working for an auto parts delivery company and they contracted me to work as a courier.
As I left my base to make my first delivery which was less than 300 meters away from the shop, I had my seat belt off because i was under the impression, according to Section 106 Exception #6 subsection (c) of the highway traffic act, that I would be exempted from the seat belt law. The rule…
Got a ticket yesterday for "Insecure Load" contrary to HTA Sec 111(2). $160. I was pulling a utility trailer in which I had loaded a steel and wood cabinet. Total length of cabinet is 57.5". 14.75" (1/4 of the cabinet) was sticking out over the side of the trailer at about a 45 degree angle, the rest (3/4) was inside the trailer. The trailer has sides 24" high. I didn't have a tie-down or bungee…
I've been researching for months for defence strategy and basic trial information regarding my speeding ticket. However, the information is so conflicting that I have no confidence whatsoever that I know what I'm doing.
I didn't get this info from a friend of a friend, it came from this website, court officials, case laws, and a consultation with a traffic ticket fighting company.
So I was driving east bound pulling an empty tandem trailer on a gravel highway. Eventually I caught up to a truck pulling a fifth wheel. The speed limit was 70km/h and I don't quite remember but I'm almost 100% that the guy in front of me was driving at 60km/h. After being behind him for a few kilometers and getting two cracks in my windshield from rocks off his tires, I decided to pass him. I…
I have been driving for over 10 years without any tickets and accidents what so ever. Unfortunately my luck ran out this past Friday; when the officer pulled me over doing 80 in a 50 zone in Mississauga, Ontario. Officer was very friendly and polite not to mention nice enough to reduce the charge to 15KM.
On the speeding ticket it now says doing 65km in a 50 zone. Never having a speeding…
hi everyone im just wondering if its right for a cop to have my car impounded and give me a traffic ticket for improper plates when my car didnt leave my property, yes i knew the plates werent to my car but on private property it dont matter aslong as it dosent go onto public property. am i right with this that i shouldnt have gotten the ticket or my car impounded?????????????
Have been busy and haven't had much time to follow up on this...
Went to court having not received disclosure (and was not organized enough to apply for a stay), so the trial was adjourned. They photocopied the officer's ticket and notes and provided a log sheet from the plane. I've sent another request for the rest of the disclosure items.
So here's my question -- can an officer amend the ticket…
Hi guys, I got pulled over last night and was ticketed with HTA 172, I was going 157 on a 100 on 400N and was wondering what I should do. I was using cruise control but the guy in the lane to my left was driving into my lane irresponsibly to I sped up to get ahead of him and just my luck that's when an OPP cruiser pulled up behind me flashing his lights. My court date is at the end of the month…
If anyone can answer this I would greatly appreciate it.
Friday morning I checked my mail and received a letter from the MTO stating that under section 47(1) of the HTA the Registrar of Motor Vehicles has decided to suspend my driving privilege for medical reasons. This was due to a report submitted by a physician in compliance with section 203 of the HTA. Enclosed with that letter were forms to…
Ok so looking for some advice in regards to my wife's speeding ticket 120k in 100 (I was in vehicle so witnessed most - but was resting at initial clock.)
whats the likelihood of positive outcome of an 11b (or an officer no show, which I suspect doesn't really happen as much as web/Ads would have you believe) of 8months.
Wife REALLY doesn't want to go, and of course I'm the one doing all of the…
I know I shouldn't have driving but I slept at my buddies' place and I thought I was ok to drive in the morning.. needless to say I still drove and got pulled over.
Background details:
I was pulled over in the morning last week, apparently going 120 km/hr on 90km Northbound DVP. Two cop cars tailed me for a bit, saw them in my rearview mirror while on the left lane, slowed down to…
I got two tickets on Feb 20 2011. One for red light, and the other for Stop sign. I knew I had a good chance at getting off on the red light, because the officer couldn't actually see the light facing me. He was at an opposite angle, further up the street.
I set a court date for both tickets. On April 22 I moved to a new place. I went to the Service Ontario location and renewed my licence…
Winnipeg's police officers have been told to issue more traffic tickets, in part to increase revenue.
And a union representing cops says the move could hurt their efforts to curb the city's gang violence.
Police Chief Keith McCaskill said last night he -- and he alone, without input from Mayor Sam Katz -- recently made the call to patrolling officers and to those in specialized units to step up…
I'm wondering if anyone could enlighten me on what to do about the following scenario:
I was pulled over by a YRP constable because I only had one front head light working. Upon being pulled over, I also realized my insurance card was expired by one month and my car permit was not on me at all. (It doesn't matter now but my valid insurance card was sitting at home in an envelope…
I have a wicked prosecutor in my area, he is an evil man and will lie and cheat, whatever is necessary for him to win. I got a yellow light infraction ticket and the cop was a no show. I requested the charge dismissed and it went like this:
Me: I request the charge be dismissed because the officer is not here
Prosecutor: No, we are going to adjourn the trial so the officer can attend
Accident happened at a regular intersection with turning lanes and lights. I was turning left. The light turned yellow, and the car approaching sped up to make the light. I thought he was stopping, so i made the turn. At the time of the collision the light was red.
I understand that it is my fault. I'm just wondering what my best course of action is.
alright well to get started ive developed a passion for longboarding
for those of you who dont already know a longboard is a big skateboard too heavy for tricks and stuff but boy can they ever go fast
my hobbies include going up the escarpment here in hamilton and stoney creek and riding down the roads leading to the lower part of the city. just wondering here. what would happen if i was going down…
My court date is nearing at old city hall at appeals court.
iwhats going to happen and what do i do?
do I present my certificate of offence and point out to the judge the fine was incorrect, I did not appear and am now appealing on the grounds the Justice of the peace erred and failed to quash the ticket on the basis of the certificate not being properly examined and is not complete and regular on…