Hi I got a OPP ticket 135km in 100km ...reduced to 115km by the policeman. Niagara Falls ON. I am thinking of going to court under the hopeful premise the policeman doesn't show up.... I was also thinking of sending someone else to represent me and not to check in until the very last second. This way if the policeman does show, he'll delay the trial for another day and state I couldn't make it...if he doesn't show, my friend will plead not guilty for me and charge will be dismissed. I do understand if I do go to court and policeman does show up, I run the risk of presecutor raising the charge back up to the original amount. I just don't want the ticket on my record My insurance agent mentioned that if I am convicted, I will lose the 12% non-conviction discount.,.and there is a greater chance of my insurance company finding it out these days. Please chime in with any comments/concerns thanks
Hi
I got a OPP ticket 135km in 100km ...reduced to 115km by the policeman. Niagara Falls ON.
I am thinking of going to court under the hopeful premise the policeman doesn't show up.... I was also thinking of sending someone else to represent me and not to check in until the very last second. This way if the policeman does show, he'll delay the trial for another day and state I couldn't make it...if he doesn't show, my friend will plead not guilty for me and charge will be dismissed.
I do understand if I do go to court and policeman does show up, I run the risk of presecutor raising the charge back up to the original amount.
I just don't want the ticket on my record
My insurance agent mentioned that if I am convicted, I will lose the 12% non-conviction discount.,.and there is a greater chance of my insurance company finding it out these days.
I don't think anyone here would recommend the tactic of having a friend lie to the Court and say you couldn't make it. First off, there's no guarantee the Court will adjourn the matter. More importantly though, you're friend could get in serious legal trouble if he's caught lying to the Court.
I don't think anyone here would recommend the tactic of having a friend lie to the Court and say you couldn't make it. First off, there's no guarantee the Court will adjourn the matter. More importantly though, you're friend could get in serious legal trouble if he's caught lying to the Court.
I agree with Straton. Don't lie to the court and don't have your friend do so. If you are seeking an adjournment through your friend, you most likely will get it if it's first appearance. And that works if you appear yourself and say that you were trying to prepare, couldn't do it on your own and are now seeking legal advice or maybe legal representation. Courts have a reputation for allowing the adjournments on this basis for any offence where the defendant is self-represented. Another avenue you could explore is request the disclosure from the prosecutor. If they don't have it ready until close to the trial (or the trial date) then you can simply ask for the adjournment to review the disclosure, seek legal advice and prepare your defence. This means the delay up to the next trial date will be attributed to the crown and not you. Therefore your rights to file 11b are protected and you haven't waived anything.
I agree with Straton. Don't lie to the court and don't have your friend do so. If you are seeking an adjournment through your friend, you most likely will get it if it's first appearance. And that works if you appear yourself and say that you were trying to prepare, couldn't do it on your own and are now seeking legal advice or maybe legal representation. Courts have a reputation for allowing the adjournments on this basis for any offence where the defendant is self-represented.
Another avenue you could explore is request the disclosure from the prosecutor. If they don't have it ready until close to the trial (or the trial date) then you can simply ask for the adjournment to review the disclosure, seek legal advice and prepare your defence. This means the delay up to the next trial date will be attributed to the crown and not you. Therefore your rights to file 11b are protected and you haven't waived anything.
Ok .. thanks for the replies. Well aside from hoping the officer doesn't show up, Skywalker12's comments asking for disclosure documents would have to be another option. I have requested a phone hearing since i live 75kms away. I assume I would ask the prosecutor on the phone at that time for disclosure documents?
Ok .. thanks for the replies.
Well aside from hoping the officer doesn't show up, Skywalker12's comments asking for disclosure documents would have to be another option. I have requested a phone hearing since i live 75kms away. I assume I would ask the prosecutor on the phone at that time for disclosure documents?
Preferrably to ask for disclosure before the hearing. Give them at least a month to prepare it or else the court may attribute the delay to you or consider it neutral time, which not in your favour. Even if the disclosure is provided to you at the hearing, you can ask for adjournment to have it reviewed and prepare your defence, you can also ask for additional disclosure if you feel that the disclosure you received is lacking or insufficient. Keep in mind the Stinchombe rule where you may not be able to compell the Crown to give you some of the evidence as part of the disclosure due to the triviality of the offence. If the crown attempts to amend the charge to original, I would then lock the crown into an 11b delay. Make a submission that the charge is different, and you need new disclosure, make it as difficult for them as possible, and watch in amusement the agony of the crown as they see an 11b coming their way and they can't do anything about it. Once an 11b is made, do a good case, have the ticket dropped and laugh at the crown who thought they will scare you by amending the charge back to original :) Remember that during the several adjournments due to disclosure, if the cop fails to appear at any of those appearances you can move to withdraw your request for disclosure and proceed with trial immediately, forcing the crown to drop the charge due to no evidence :)
Preferrably to ask for disclosure before the hearing. Give them at least a month to prepare it or else the court may attribute the delay to you or consider it neutral time, which not in your favour.
Even if the disclosure is provided to you at the hearing, you can ask for adjournment to have it reviewed and prepare your defence, you can also ask for additional disclosure if you feel that the disclosure you received is lacking or insufficient.
Keep in mind the Stinchombe rule where you may not be able to compell the Crown to give you some of the evidence as part of the disclosure due to the triviality of the offence.
If the crown attempts to amend the charge to original, I would then lock the crown into an 11b delay. Make a submission that the charge is different, and you need new disclosure, make it as difficult for them as possible, and watch in amusement the agony of the crown as they see an 11b coming their way and they can't do anything about it.
Once an 11b is made, do a good case, have the ticket dropped and laugh at the crown who thought they will scare you by amending the charge back to original
Remember that during the several adjournments due to disclosure, if the cop fails to appear at any of those appearances you can move to withdraw your request for disclosure and proceed with trial immediately, forcing the crown to drop the charge due to no evidence
I am not following. If you got the disclosure on the reduced charge and they amend it to the original the disclosure is still the same. So how can it be fought on improper disclosure. Note i have see that tried before here and the JP agreed that the disclosure is the same therefore lets go to trial. Now if the amended charge took it to the stunt drive area I could see as the defense could change but 135 in a 100 is fought the same as the 115 in a 100. They are both still speeding offenses. So any kind of adjournment would fall on you OPS
I am not following. If you got the disclosure on the reduced charge and they amend it to the original the disclosure is still the same. So how can it be fought on improper disclosure.
Note i have see that tried before here and the JP agreed that the disclosure is the same therefore lets go to trial.
Now if the amended charge took it to the stunt drive area I could see as the defense could change but 135 in a 100 is fought the same as the 115 in a 100. They are both still speeding offenses. So any kind of adjournment would fall on you
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