Hi Everybody, I recently received a ticket for red light fail to stop under section 144 (18) of the Highway Traffic Act at the intersection of Dupont St. and Dufferin St. in Toronto with a set fine of $150 and total payable of $190. I think I entered the intersection on a yellow, however that is not the way the officer saw it. During the traffic stop the officer was polite bordering on friendly and I was equally polite to him, because as we all know arguing a ticket at the side of the road never helps. At the end of the stop as the officer was explaining my options regarding the ticket he told me that his patrol car had a dash cam and that the video would be used in court should I chose to challenge the ticket. After reviewing my options and reading this site I have thought of two possible defense strategies and I was hopping some of you might tell me what you think. 1) I could book a court date and request disclosure. I imagine that a copy of the officers dash cam video would be included in the disclosure. If the video showed that I entered the intersection on a yellow light it could clear me, on the other hand if it showed that I did in fact enter on a red light it could sink me. 2) Both the set fine and total payable appear to be wrong on my ticket. I've read about the London City v. Young case on this site and my situation seems to be exactly the same as the situation outlined in that case. If that is true it might be better to not book a trial and simply default on the ticket and hope the JP running the default docket notices the error and quashes the ticket. If he misses the error I can always appeal, which would take some work but would be worth it to keep this ticket off my record. I have never been a defendant in traffic court before so any opinions, suggestions or comments would be greatly appreciated.
Hi Everybody,
I recently received a ticket for red light fail to stop under section 144 (18) of the Highway Traffic Act at the intersection of Dupont St. and Dufferin St. in Toronto with a set fine of $150 and total payable of $190. I think I entered the intersection on a yellow, however that is not the way the officer saw it. During the traffic stop the officer was polite bordering on friendly and I was equally polite to him, because as we all know arguing a ticket at the side of the road never helps. At the end of the stop as the officer was explaining my options regarding the ticket he told me that his patrol car had a dash cam and that the video would be used in court should I chose to challenge the ticket. After reviewing my options and reading this site I have thought of two possible defense strategies and I was hopping some of you might tell me what you think.
1) I could book a court date and request disclosure. I imagine that a copy of the officers dash cam video would be included in the disclosure. If the video showed that I entered the intersection on a yellow light it could clear me, on the other hand if it showed that I did in fact enter on a red light it could sink me.
2) Both the set fine and total payable appear to be wrong on my ticket. I've read about the London City v. Young case on this site and my situation seems to be exactly the same as the situation outlined in that case. If that is true it might be better to not book a trial and simply default on the ticket and hope the JP running the default docket notices the error and quashes the ticket. If he misses the error I can always appeal, which would take some work but would be worth it to keep this ticket off my record.
I have never been a defendant in traffic court before so any opinions, suggestions or comments would be greatly appreciated.
http://www.ontariocourts.on.ca/ocj/en/s ... dule43.doc set fine of $260 http://www.toronto.ca/court_services/news.htm#surcharge surcharge of $60 + $5 service charge grand total $325.00
Ticket should be quashed if you follow the "default and appeal" procedure as outlined in London v. Young... it has worked for a number of our members here who have had improper fine amounts.
Ticket should be quashed if you follow the "default and appeal" procedure as outlined in London v. Young... it has worked for a number of our members here who have had improper fine amounts.
* The above is NOT legal advice. By acting on anything I have said, you assume responsibility for any outcome and consequences. *
http://www.OntarioTicket.com OR http://www.OHTA.ca
Thanks hwybear and Radar Identified for your reply's, they were most helpful. Based on what you both have said, as well as other things I have read, it seems that the London v. Young stratagy is the way to go. So I will ignore the ticket for now and await further developments.
Thanks hwybear and Radar Identified for your reply's, they were most helpful. Based on what you both have said, as well as other things I have read, it seems that the London v. Young stratagy is the way to go. So I will ignore the ticket for now and await further developments.
Well it looks like the JP running the default docket did not notice the error on my ticket. I received a notice of fine and due date in the mail today saying that I was convicted on July 29th and now owe the city $195.00. I will be heading down to the court house either tomorrow or the next day to file an appeal. I do have one question, is it necessary to write a factum for a provincial offences appeal and if so do I need to file this with the court before my hearing or do I just bring it with me the day of?
Well it looks like the JP running the default docket did not notice the error on my ticket. I received a notice of fine and due date in the mail today saying that I was convicted on July 29th and now owe the city $195.00. I will be heading down to the court house either tomorrow or the next day to file an appeal. I do have one question, is it necessary to write a factum for a provincial offences appeal and if so do I need to file this with the court before my hearing or do I just bring it with me the day of?
You shouldn't need to write a factum at all. You should be able to make your argument orally on the day of. The rules state that you should do a factum and serve it on the crown beforehand, but I don't think they're stringently enforced against non-lawyers.
You shouldn't need to write a factum at all. You should be able to make your argument orally on the day of. The rules state that you should do a factum and serve it on the crown beforehand, but I don't think they're stringently enforced against non-lawyers.
-Thanks Simon, that is good to know. -I went down to Old City Hall today and filed my appeal. I was given a court date of January 9th, so now I'll do some more reading to get all my ducks in a row and wait for my day in court.
-Thanks Simon, that is good to know.
-I went down to Old City Hall today and filed my appeal. I was given a court date of January 9th, so now I'll do some more reading to get all my ducks in a row and wait for my day in court.
Well my court date is on Monday, I think I have a pretty good grip on what I need to do and I think my case is actually pretty straight forward. I've got 3 copies of my case law and three copies of the fine scheduled showing that my ticket has an incorrect set fine. Tomorrow I'm going to make some last minute notes to myself so I don't forget what I want to say, other than that I think I'm good to go. If anyone has any last minute advice pleas feel free to offer it, if not then wish me luck and I will let everyone know how it went when I get back.
Well my court date is on Monday, I think I have a pretty good grip on what I need to do and I think my case is actually pretty straight forward. I've got 3 copies of my case law and three copies of the fine scheduled showing that my ticket has an incorrect set fine. Tomorrow I'm going to make some last minute notes to myself so I don't forget what I want to say, other than that I think I'm good to go. If anyone has any last minute advice pleas feel free to offer it, if not then wish me luck and I will let everyone know how it went when I get back.
Hi Everybody, I just wanted to let you all know that I had my day in court today and, thanks in no small part to the helpful people on this board, I won my case. Things went very smoothly, I showed up about 20mins before court was to start, the crown came over and asked me if I was contesting my own case, I said yes and other than that the crown didn't speak to me. When my name was called I came up and was prepared to make my argument but as it turned out I really didn't have to do anything. My hearing lasted less then five minutes and went something like this: Judge: please approach and state your name: Me: my name is Daggx Judge: You are arguing that the set fine on your ticket is incorrect? Me: Yes your Honour Judge: *looks at Crown* is the set fine on Mr. Daggx's ticket incorrect? Crown: yes your Honour Judge: Ok Mr. Daggx, the JP should have quashed the proceedings against you, so I am going to enter an acquittal in your case Me: thank you your Honour And that was it. The Judge seemed to be well aware of the principles set out in London v. Young and I believe the Crown was too as she didn't put up any kind of fight. Now all I have to do is sit back and see how long it takes the city to refund the fine money I paid them. So once again thank you to the people on this board for helping me out, if it weren't for you all I would have never known about London v. Young and I would have not been able to mount nearly as good a defense to the charge against me.
Hi Everybody,
I just wanted to let you all know that I had my day in court today and, thanks in no small part to the helpful people on this board, I won my case. Things went very smoothly, I showed up about 20mins before court was to start, the crown came over and asked me if I was contesting my own case, I said yes and other than that the crown didn't speak to me. When my name was called I came up and was prepared to make my argument but as it turned out I really didn't have to do anything. My hearing lasted less then five minutes and went something like this:
Judge: please approach and state your name:
Me: my name is Daggx
Judge: You are arguing that the set fine on your ticket is incorrect?
Me: Yes your Honour
Judge: *looks at Crown* is the set fine on Mr. Daggx's ticket incorrect?
Crown: yes your Honour
Judge: Ok Mr. Daggx, the JP should have quashed the proceedings against you, so I am going to enter an acquittal in your case
Me: thank you your Honour
And that was it. The Judge seemed to be well aware of the principles set out in London v. Young and I believe the Crown was too as she didn't put up any kind of fight. Now all I have to do is sit back and see how long it takes the city to refund the fine money I paid them. So once again thank you to the people on this board for helping me out, if it weren't for you all I would have never known about London v. Young and I would have not been able to mount nearly as good a defense to the charge against me.
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Re: Red light fail to stop under section 144 (18) HTA
