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Summons Received! Any Advice
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 19, 2011 1:11 am 
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Hi, Guys.

I Received 2 summons 1. Racing Section and 2 Fail to Have Insurance


My questions are basicly the following,

1. what are some good defences against those 2 charges.
2. the officer clearly lost site of me and did not get me on a Radar as for speed..


Now my real question is that for the racing ticket since its an strict liability offence as per the new caselaw's what extra defences do i have that i usualy dont have with part 1 matters.

and i know my case might not be as simple as it sounds.. but i recall seeing some caselaw or provincial offences act section stating that the officer must
tell the whole story from beginig to end from memory and only use his notes to recall the events of that evening.

so my question begins 1. if i prove his recollection is not good of the events. such as color of motorcycle and position of rider etc.

i would assume that would prove beyond a reasonable doubt that he has no recollection of the events that night. and would possibly cause more questions to arise.

what other information can i use and what other questions can i question him with to prove beyond a reasonable doubt that i was not racing.

and as per the fail to have insurance : if i recall correctly i remember someone mentioning that they had to prove you had no insurance simply not presenting a slip is not a clear indication of if the vehicle is insured or not its a clear a indication that the person has no slip at the moment.

any help would be appreciated.


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Some extra info
PostPosted: Thu Jan 20, 2011 12:09 am 
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Consent to change presiding justice

(4) A justice presiding at a trial may, at any stage of the trial and upon the consent of the prosecutor and defendant, order that the trial be conducted by another justice and, upon the order being given, subsection (2) applies as if the justice were unable to act. R.S.O. 1990, c. P.33, s. 30 (4).



Has Anyone ever attempted the above?

i beleive the presiding justice in my case is a little bias the one at the first appearance JP and subsequent ones.

I also, was wondering if anyone has attempted this one out of curosicty or how it works.


Finding
(3) The trial of the issue shall be presided over by a judge and,
(a) where the judge finds that the defendant is, because of mental disorder, unable to conduct his or her defence, the judge shall order that the proceeding remain suspended;



and also if anyone has ever been convicted and has asked for sentencing to occur infront of another justice or at another date as they do this quite often in criminal courts.


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Re: Summons Received! Any Advice
PostPosted: Thu Jan 20, 2011 12:55 am 
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I think you're looking at this the wrong way. It's not about "what defences are available to me", it's "I'm not actually guilty because..." or "I should be held legally responsible because..." and when you can finish either of these sentences you will have your answer as to what defence, if any, is appropriate to use. Looking for defences that don't reflect reality is not going to be productive, since JP's are not compelled, or likely, to entertain any defence that does not have an air of reality.

If you have specific and realistic issues with things like the officer's lack of specific recall, or the inadequacy of their notes or the fact that they did not use a proper speed measuring device to gauge your speed, then those are what you should focus on. The likelihood of success depends, of course, on how it all comes out in court.

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Re: Summons Received! Any Advice
PostPosted: Thu Jan 20, 2011 2:02 am 
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Simon,

Thanks for the quick reply, well i was just wondering what defences are available to see what categories i fall under..

now here is the scenerio..


me and friend are in 2 diffent lanes side by side light turns green we accellerate and well obviouly motorcycles sport ones accelerate really fast and ours were noisy due to the D&D exhaust system..

so police observes us from across the block on the parrele street they did lose site.. of us its mentioned in notes..

and they dont recall the colors of bikes or anything correctly.

they then decided to see us in timhortons since its a local bikers hangout.. and they presumed we woudl be there and we were..

so they handed us a racing summons well the only problem is no speed measuring device was used..

from the notes seems the officer has very bad recollection now..


what im wondering is since no speed measure device was used do i have a valid defence as to if i was racing or not?

and since officers lost site and wrote colors of the bikes wrong does it mean possible mistake identity?

and last but not least..

* what part of the POA or any relevant case law says officers must use there own recollection and not the notes for an conviction.
* Can i Object to officer using His notes?
* Can i Request another JP preside Over the Trial?
*where can i find some more information on how procedural stuff other then the POA Link below...
http://www.canlii.org/en/on/laws/stat/r ... c-p33.html


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Re: Summons Received! Any Advice
PostPosted: Thu Jan 20, 2011 9:51 am 
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Location: In YOUR rearview mirror!
Shaan wrote:
from the notes seems the officer has very bad recollection now..


Notes are for the officer, not everyone else. In other words, the officer only need write enough notes for him/her to remember details of the incident. There are some incidents I have not even used my notebook on the stand. Can still vividly remember some stops from many years ago, not the person or plate, but the vehicle and what it did.

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Re: Summons Received! Any Advice
PostPosted: Thu Jan 20, 2011 12:59 pm 
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Hey Shaan,

Your best bet may be to go with mistaken identity if there is a big discrepancy of the colors of the bikes but remember under some lighting and angles of view, dark blues may look like black and some people may describe the same color by using different terms. The officer may have identified the riders by the type of clothing rather than bike makes.

The notes that appear on paper are notes that are made to refresh the officers memory and not provide the whole story where you are present at. The officers may have a recollection of a particular decal or hemet that they did not put into their notes.

You did not describe the time lapse between the loss of sight and them spotting you at the restaraunt. Was the restaraunt in a direct flight direction from where they losst sight of you? Would it be likely that your bikesw ould have drove directly there or di the trip require several turns?

You may wish to hire someone to assist you with this charge.


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Re: Summons Received! Any Advice
PostPosted: Thu Jan 20, 2011 9:48 pm 
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From what you've described it seems this case turns on whether the officers can prove that you were the one driving the bike they saw "racing". If no traffic stop was conducted and there's no notes explicitly stating how else the came to believe it was you, I don't see how they can.

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Re: Summons Received! Any Advice
PostPosted: Sat Jan 22, 2011 3:12 pm 
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Well no the entire drive was not in view as the entire 350 meters as per google maps from the point of departure to the point of stopping he might have saw the first 50 meters after that its all Big Stores strip plaza to be exact blocking the view.

In his notes he clearly mentions he lost site and the drawing of the map he did well indicates that and furthure his notes also show that he heard about the bikes from his partner he did not 'hear them' or see them so i guess my position at this point could also be hearsay if i can prove it at court?


I also had a further question i received this summons in october 2009 with a friend well we figured they had lost my summons as when my buddy went to first appearance they had no record of it well almost 1.5 years later they found it i guess and decided to issue a bench warrant well since i had no knowledge of the Offence being still presented in court am i eligable for a 11B?


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Questions Regarding Dislclosure and Stays
PostPosted: Thu Jan 27, 2011 3:13 pm 
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Guys i have a quick question regarding Disclosure request i sent a disclosure request to the crowns office requiring a further disclosure as the notes i received in the disclosure from the officer are unreadable and i requested typed notes

a copy of both sides of the officer's copy of the ticket (Notice of Offence);
o a typed version of any hand written notes;
o witness will say statements;
o witness statements;
o any statements made by the defendant;
o copies of the original notes of such statements; and
o the names and address, occupation and criminal record of the persons providing such information.

that was my disclosure request contents the items i requested well, i got the disclosure and it ended up being the same one as i received on First Appearance, so my question remains do i ask for another disclosure fax the same request again? or how do i proceed wit getting this Stayed?

Also, i got this summons almost a year ago a friend was supposed to appear on my behalf for first appearance i guess he didn't so i never heard back from the courts for almost year and a half and i did try communicate with the court via phone trying to find the summons they couldn't locate it now suddenly it has surfaced am i Eligible for 11B?


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Re: Summons Received! Any Advice
PostPosted: Thu Jan 27, 2011 4:07 pm 
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Post merged under the thread for the original offence.
KEEP ALL POSTS RELATED TO THE SAME OFFENCE UNDER THE SAME THREAD.

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* The above is NOT legal advice. By acting on anything I have said, you assume responsibility for any outcome and consequences. *
http://www.OntarioTicket.com OR http://www.OHTA.ca


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