SmokeScreen wrote:

All joking aside, do officers have to fill out any kind of "use of force form" when a taser or stun gun, pepper spray is used?

Yes a report is filled out.

and side note...if I had a choice, I would want to be "tazed"!

If a person does get shocked/sprayed because they made a sudden or unexpected move are they automatically under arrest?

huh? that does not make sense.

Police are authorized to use force by the Criminal Code and Police Services Act.

Well my question was, if a person gets shocked with a taser or pepper sprayed because they made a sudden movement or the officer misunderstood what a person was doing or about to do, does the person who was shocked or sprayed get arrested? It's never come up in my daily life, but does the officer give warning they are about to use the taser or pepper spray if the person does not stop what they are doing or show their hands?

It is not unreasonable to imagine a person being in a bad mood because they have been stopped for something, perhaps an angry motorist cursing while they dig in the glove box or centre console could give the wrong impression to an officer who may think they are looking for a weapon.......ZAP. Or do cops ask the person to stop what they are doing or else.......just curious as to what happens.

SmokeScreen wrote:

Well my question was, if a person gets shocked with a taser or pepper sprayed because they made a sudden movement or the officer misunderstood what a person was doing or about to do, does the person who was shocked or sprayed get arrested?

this is situational specific, perceived by the officer with a multitude of factors that come into play. If use of force has been used the person was going to be arrested for an offence or is already under arrest for an offence.

It's never come up in my daily life, but does the officer give warning they are about to use the taser or pepper spray if the person does not stop what they are doing or show their hands?

situational pending

It is not unreasonable to imagine a person being in a bad mood because they have been stopped for something, perhaps an angry motorist cursing while they dig in the glove box or centre console could give the wrong impression to an officer who may think they are looking for a weapon.......ZAP. Or do cops ask the person to stop what they are doing or else.......just curious as to what happens.

situational pending. I have had irate people, but deal with it accordingly.

I've also had 2 stops of calm drivers. I've had told them to stop reaching for their documents, they looked at me, told them to put their hands on the wheel. Then informed the person not to move and any movement would be treated as a threat to me and appropriate force would be taken. Called for backup, made arrest. Both times for handguns visible to me. I had more than enough grounds/threat to drawn my weapon, but communication and compliance resulted in no force necessary....again situational pending.

Thanks hwybear, I really do have respect for the job done by officers, just not alays the clearest picture of it. And I am really thankful it is not like it is in the States, being pulled over down there in some places is very stressfull for both driver and as I imagine officer too. Cops here seem mellow by comparison.

SmokeScreen wrote:

And I am really thankful it is not like it is in the States, being pulled over down there in some places is very stressfull for both driver and as I imagine officer too.

Some states/places they're pretty mellow too...

That said, I think the most stressful traffic stop I've ever been in was when I got pulled over by the Michigan State Police in Detroit for having a loud muffler. At the time, I was living in Michigan but had an older car, and the muffler did need repairs... anyway, I pulled onto the shoulder. I'd already shut the engine off and rolled down the windows, but he barked some very specific instructions over the bullhorn:

- Put all documents on the dashboard and keep glovebox open

- Take keys out of the ignition and put them on the passenger seat

- Look straight ahead, hands on steering wheel, do not move or turn around until he tells me to

- Do I have any weapons? Give thumbs up or down

- Give thumbs up when all instructions complied with

He then approached from the right side with one hand on his sidearm. He checked to make sure the trunk was closed and locked when he approached. I later found out that police in Detroit have to shoot several drivers every year during traffic stops, and no prior history on the vehicle/driver is no guarantee of officer safety in any way, shape or form (lots of just-stolen/just-carjacked cars in Detroit).

(I didn't get ticketed because I told him I was on my way to get the muffler fixed... of course he didn't believe me at first, so he followed me to the muffler shop and made sure I placed the work order.)

I tend to give breaks when people are honest and remorseful, other officers likely record all this and use it in court. There is no right answer here people.

I write piles of tickets and can spot a bullshitter a mile away. We get training to forensic interviewing, statement analysis and 22 year in uniform means my BS detector works better than your emitter.

You decide what route you want to take, if you know you messed up, there's nothing wrong in life with saying it. It doesn't matter if you are dealing with the police, a friend or a spouse. Admitting your transgressions can cause you grief, but little in the way of a guilty conscience. most insurance companies give minimal impact to minor violations.

Having aid all that, remain calm, do not argue, if the officer says you were going faster than you thought you were, tell them you're surprised, if they ask you how fast you thought you were going, tell them not that fast!

You are guilty of speeding at 1 km/h over the limit, the rest is just about the fine.

Most importantly, be polite, you're out having a nice night, this shmuck is workin'...they've heard every excuse in the book, if you claim a medical emergency be prepared to be followed to the hospital...

And if you know you were speeding, be polite and ask for a break...

Why should anyone feel they have to stay quiet, and leave glove box open?

Thats ruling by creating fear. Besides cops are not there to rule anyone. Also leaving a glove box open for them to look in equates to illegal search.

It is the officer who is carrying a gun, taser abd pepper spray !

So that you don't say anything that will be used against you!!

I've never seen the glovebox open in a million traffic stops so that seems like a moot point.

We don't rule and nobody has been asked to be afraid. Respect however is a two way street.

And we've been given guns, tasers and OC spray to protect ourselves, from those who reach into their glove compartments to retrieve things like guns...

I think siriusone needs to go on a few police ride alongs...see things from our side of the equation...

siriusone wrote:

Also leaving a glove box open for them to look in equates to illegal search. !

An open glove box is not an illegal search. If it's open I look, if not, I don't. I would be looking for weapons that could harm me, hence why we carry use of force items, to protect ourselves.

siriusone wrote:

Also leaving a glove box open for them to look in equates to illegal search.

That is the option of the motorist. I leave the glove box open before the officer approaches because the officer can see that I am not carrying any weapons. I also keep my hands in plain view, roll the windows down and shut the engine off. There is no law or requirement for me to keep the glove box open or to do anything else I've mentioned. It is my choice to do so. Guess what? I also have the freedom to do as such!

I am all for rights of the defendant. I am fully aware of what my rights are. Regardless, I leave the glove box open and I am reasonably cooperative because the officer is in an unknown situation and I represent a potential threat. Doing this makes the environment safer/friendlier for the officer. It also subtly encourages them to offer me a break, which works a heck of a lot more often than standing up and going "I know my rights, blah blah blah." Aside from the occasional traffic ticket, I've also never attracted unwanted police attention. I wonder why that might be.

Radar Identified wrote:

Aside from the occasional traffic ticket, I've also never attracted unwanted police attention. I wonder why that might be.

Simple...you were "flying under the radar"

hwybear wrote:

Simple...you were "flying under the radar"

Nice choice of words.

hwybear wrote:

siriusone wrote:

Also leaving a glove box open for them to look in equates to illegal search. !

An open glove box is not an illegal search. If it's open I look, if not, I don't. I would be looking for weapons that could harm me, hence why we carry use of force items, to protect ourselves.

Posters were telling people to leave glove box open. My point is why should we? Quite frankly I think the fact that people get arbitrarily detained without probable cause is one issue that we should not be dealing with, let alone having them snoop in our glove boxes at will.

I would not go along on a police ridealong as I do not make a habit of defrauding/harassing people. I may go along with a peace officer in the execution of his peace officer duties.

A police officer IS A PEACE OFFICER.

Turning lights on, keeping hands in view and opening the glovebox are nothing more than courtesies.

I know this may surprise some, but police have a difficult job out there. Not unlike Cst. Vu Pham who was murdered during a recent traffic stop, or Cst Joe McDonald who stopped a car on a routine traffic stop and was shot to death.

Nobody is talking about ruling, but the understanding driver knows that every traffic stop, every call an officer goes to can quickly develop into something life threatening. Every year at the Ottawa Police officer's memorial, 6-12 officers' name are added to the honour roll...

You don't have to do any of those things above, but it shows the officer, that he or she is in a 'safe' environment, it lowers their anxiety level which I can assure you it to everyone's benefit.

So why should you? Courtesy, respect, lower anxiety levels and in many cases this sign of respect is returned. Every time? No, not likely...but police are quick to pick up on courtesy.

Feel free to keep you glove box closed, I really could care less, if I have grounds to arrest I'll search your vehicle anyway...

One other thing...how would you be defrauding people by going on a ride-along? I've had paramedics, teachers, mechanics, crown attorneys, defence attorneys, police applicants and ministers on ride alongs...didn't get the impression from any of them that we were out defrauding people...

siriusone wrote:

Quite frankly I think the fact that people get arbitrarily detained without probable cause is one issue that we should not be dealing with, let alone having them snoop in our glove boxes at will..

Probable cause = good ole USA TV stuff