Improperly Passing a Streetcar

r0sst3r
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by: r0sst3r on
Tue Jun 16, 2009 5:38 pm

I just found my "Notice of Trial" ... woooHOOOO! :lol:
I know, I know, just a minor victory... but still!

As suggested by "ticketcombat.com" I submitted a "Request for Disclosure" in the mail today. I also faxed in a copy to the Prosecutor's Office.

There are only 22 days until my trial date. I hope the Judge doesn't dismiss my request due to my lateness!! Let's see what happens.....




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by: r0sst3r on
Thu Jul 02, 2009 3:00 pm

I just received a letter in the mail, saying that I have to pay a $5 fee for the disclosure request. I guess this is a new rule....

Anyway, I'll resubmit my request, along with the $5 asap, and tell the judge that I have done so & am now awaiting the info.


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by: liveontheedge on
Thu Jul 02, 2009 3:57 pm

They have a way of discouraging people from requesting disclosure. People don't get justice for free, it comes at a cost.

Let see, driver has to go in person to fill out the "Notice of trial", has to go in person to pick up disclosure, driver was given a court date not of his/her choice, now another $5 for disclosure (if disclosure is never sent would you get $5 back?), WTF is next?


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by: r0sst3r on
Thu Jul 02, 2009 10:55 pm

So true! Hopefully this persistence pays off. 5 days until d-day!
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by: ticketcombat on
Fri Jul 03, 2009 12:35 am

Hang on. They're charging you $5??? Disclosure is free and the Crown is obligated to provide it to you, not charge you. It sounds like they are confusing your request with an FOI request. An FOI request does cost $5 which is the deposit for the initial inquiry. You pay the actual photocopying costs later.

Don't pay the $5. Use this to your advantage to get a stay. But make absolutely certain that you sent your request to the prosecutor (the Crown). If you sent it anywhere else, I can see why they would have confused the issue.
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by: r0sst3r on
Fri Jul 03, 2009 7:24 am

I sent it to the prosecutor's office as per the advice I got from the "ticketcombat.com" site....one copy via mail and another via fax.

Offence number begining with "4860 999 00 XXXXXXXX-00"
Old City Hall
100 Queen Street West
tel: 416-338-7245
fax: 416-338-6986
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by: r0sst3r on
Fri Jul 03, 2009 9:02 am

HERE'S WHAT THE LETTER READS:
*********************************

Dear xxx,

The information access request you submitted under the Municipal Freedom of Information and Protection of Privacy Act was received by the Access and Privacy Section on June 29, 2009, and is enclosed.

Pursuant to the passage of Bill 28, Schedule K (Omnibus Bill), and effective March 1, 1996, there is a non-waivable application fee of $5.00 for each request under the Act. Processing of the request will commence upon receipt of the fee.

Please resubmit your request with a cheque or Money Order for $5.00, made payable to the TORONTO POLICE SERVICE; together with a photocopy of two pieces of valid government issued ID to :
Toronto Police Service,
Access and Privacy Section,
40 College St. 4th Floor
Toronto, ON M5G 2J3 (Tel:416.808.7850)

Please note that the following fees may apply:

Request for Personal Information
--------------------------------------
Photocopying: $0.20 per page (if over 25 pages)
Computer Programming: $15.00 per 1/4 hour if needed
Diskettes: $10.00 each

Request for General Information
-------------------------------------
Photocopying: $0.20 per page
Search time & Record Prep. $7.50 per 1/4 hour
Computer Programming: $15.00 per 1/4
Diskettes: $10.00 each

You will be given a fee estimate if anticipated fees exceed $25.00 If the estimate of fees to be paid is $100.00 or more, you may be required to pay a 50% deposit.

Yours truly,
Katie Watts
Coordinator
Access and Privacy Section
AF/Ip
Encl. Original Request




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by: ticketcombat on
Fri Jul 03, 2009 11:11 am

This is hilarious. As long as YOUR letter clearly stated:
City of Toronto Prosecutor's Office
100 Queen St. W...
You are golden. It looks like the city forwarded your request to the police officer to complete (i.e. hand over your notes, etc). The cop(s) sent it to their FOI office instead! DOH!

So ignore the Police FOI letter. It's the Crown's responsibility to provide you disclosure, not your responsibility to negotiate with their witness. Since disclosure was requested so late, you will likely get an adjournment.

If they play the game of chicken with you, look to see if either the cop or driver are there. If they aren't, they must drop the charge.

Don't accept a plea bargain when they will have to adjourn or toss the charge anyway. Whatever happens DO NOT CAVE IN. Insist that you did not receive disclosure.

Good luck and good fight!
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by: r0sst3r on
Fri Jul 03, 2009 11:24 am

Ok, so let me see if I got this right. Here is my action plan.
(Sorry I had to break it down like this, but I'm really nervous about this..it being my 1st time appearing in court.. so I don't want to screw up! I'll likely carry this list with me!)
:o


1. Ask prosecutor if cop is present. If not - case dismissed.
If he is present....

2. Ask prosecutor (or judge?) for adjournment because disclosure was requested on June 15th, but was not received. If adjournment is granted, go home. :) If not granted....DO NOT ACCEPT PLEA BARGAIN.

3. Describe to judge about how the cop was radaring the other side of traffic, so he did not have a clear view of what was going on at this side of the streetcar. i.e. I had passed before the streetcar came to a halt & opened its doors. *hope for the best*


P.S.... what if the plea bargain they offer is that i get NO demerit points, and just have to pay the penalty? I'm ok with that, I think. It won't affect my insurance, I don't think? Although...I do have 2 prior speeding tickets for "15 over" - no demerit points.
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by: r0sst3r on
Fri Jul 03, 2009 11:31 am

Another question...

What if the prosecutor gives me the "disclosure evidence" when I meet him/her just before the trial? Can I still say that I need an adjournment to review the evidence just handed to me? Or will the judge say I had plenty of time to review it in the hallway while awaiting the trial?

:shock: ...?
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by: liveontheedge on
Fri Jul 03, 2009 2:40 pm

r0sst3r wrote:Ok, so let me see if I got this right. Here is my action plan.
(Sorry I had to break it down like this, but I'm really nervous about this..it being my 1st time appearing in court.. so I don't want to screw up! I'll likely carry this list with me!)
:o


1. Ask prosecutor if cop is present. If not - case dismissed.
If he is present....

2. Ask prosecutor (or judge?) for adjournment because disclosure was requested on June 15th, but was not received. If adjournment is granted, go home. :) If not granted....DO NOT ACCEPT PLEA BARGAIN.

3. Describe to judge about how the cop was radaring the other side of traffic, so he did not have a clear view of what was going on at this side of the streetcar. i.e. I had passed before the streetcar came to a halt & opened its doors. *hope for the best*


P.S.... what if the plea bargain they offer is that i get NO demerit points, and just have to pay the penalty? I'm ok with that, I think. It won't affect my insurance, I don't think? Although...I do have 2 prior speeding tickets for "15 over" - no demerit points.
If you haven't received disclosure by trial date you are guaranteed with an adjournment regardless who requesting it. So if you play tough and play your cards right it could be over that day, otherwise it would drag on.

I would just check in with the Cown but don't let him/her know what my plan would be. If h/she makes an offer to plead down, it's up to you to take it, but if you don't take it, just say you would think about it and go find a seat and watch for the cop showing up.

Don't let the Crown know that you haven't got disclosure, don't try to explain what happened between your car and the street car because h/she will start to play game with you depending on what you have told him/her and will delay the trial even cop does not show. You want to leave the door open to opt for trial if cop is not there.

If the Crown hand over the disclosure to you before trial, don't take it, tell him/her to give it to you after trial.

You only need to explain the incident with the street car to the judge if the trial takes place, but you don't want to go to trial since you have not received disclosure.

If the JP forces the trial on that day with disclosure just handed over to you, you can politely ask the JP to delay the trial for you to review the disclosure with your lawyer. If it's denied i guess you have no choice but to proceed (very unlikely)


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by: Reflections on
Sat Jul 04, 2009 8:33 am

r0sst3r wrote:Another question...

What if the prosecutor gives me the "disclosure evidence" when I meet him/her just before the trial? Can I still say that I need an adjournment to review the evidence just handed to me? Or will the judge say I had plenty of time to review it in the hallway while awaiting the trial?

:shock: ...?
Worst case, ask for an adjournment due to late disclosure. Best case, JP tosses the case.... :D
http://www.OHTA.ca OR http://www.OntarioTrafficAct.com


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by: r0sst3r on
Mon Jul 06, 2009 11:34 am

If the judge grants me an adjournment, what is the next step I take? Do I find out my next court date immediately, or should I go to the office there and line-up to request a new date (like I did for my original Court Date)?

Just asking... in case I excitedly walk outta there without doing something I should have done.


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by: r0sst3r on
Mon Jul 06, 2009 11:41 am

P.S. Do we have to dress formally when appearing in court? i.e. no jeans/runners?
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by: liveontheedge on
Mon Jul 06, 2009 12:50 pm

r0sst3r wrote:If the judge grants me an adjournment, what is the next step I take? Do I find out my next court date immediately, or should I go to the office there and line-up to request a new date (like I did for my original Court Date)?

Just asking... in case I excitedly walk outta there without doing something I should have done.


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What you do next depending on the reason for adjournment, for example to give the cop more time to send you disclosure, or to give the crown more games to play...

From what i've seen they give you the date/time and court room number right away, and people say you should dress appropriately (no jeans, nor runing shoes) but it's your choice.


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