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Re: Prosecution refused disclosure for speeding charge.
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 04, 2012 4:16 pm 
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Thanks Decatur, I meant it should be posted online. I'm sure this one would be in greater demand than the other things they have posted. I would consider it a worthy way to spend my tax money;) re tuning forks, thanks for the reply. I am very confused:( If NHTSA requires tuning forks to verify if the unit is working correctly why is this no longer necessary when it is in the officer's hands? Either the forks are necessary or they aren't. Also, seeing that they are used in other jurisdictions, I wonder who gave Ontario the right to eliminate them? Somehow I doubt it was a radar expert..You say you weren't a great fan of forks, why?


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Re: Prosecution refused disclosure for speeding charge.
PostPosted: Tue Sep 04, 2012 4:28 pm 
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Ejadoo, the only ai-013 I found is here http://www.docstoc.com/docs/66799986/On ... or-Devices but decatur says it has been amended in 2011. I still think it's a good reference as it matches the DOT documents listed on some recent police boards. Also, if you were ticketed in 2011 it could actually be the relevant one. I don't see any harm in presenting that one and let the prosecution prove it is wrong.


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Re: Prosecution refused disclosure for speeding charge.
PostPosted: Thu Sep 06, 2012 9:12 pm 
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Decatur, you seem to know about radars (hence the name?) so maybe you can help me. The manual for the Genesis radars states that when you lock the speed it will move the speed to the right display and lock it in and as long as you continue to hold the trigger the radar will continue to track targets and show their speed in the left side of display. But, it doesn't say what happens if you release the trigger. Technically speaking 'move' means you take it from one place and move it to the other leaving the original empty which would indicate the locked speed would be shown on the right and the left would be blank? Or would the left also display the locked speed? thanks a million,

Pepsi


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Re: Prosecution refused disclosure for speeding charge.
PostPosted: Thu Sep 06, 2012 9:41 pm 
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If it's the Genesis handheld your asking about, once you lock the speed it remains on the display (right side) until you lock a new speed or turn off the device. The left side of the display always shows the current "live" reading as long as the trigger is depressed.


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Re: Prosecution refused disclosure for speeding charge.
PostPosted: Thu Sep 06, 2012 10:42 pm 
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Thanks Stanton, yes it is the handheld. What does the left side show when the trigger is released?


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Re: Prosecution refused disclosure for speeding charge.
PostPosted: Thu Sep 06, 2012 11:48 pm 
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Pepsi wrote:
Thanks Stanton, yes it is the handheld. What does the left side show when the trigger is released?


Nothing, it will be blank.


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Re: Prosecution refused disclosure for speeding charge.
PostPosted: Fri Sep 07, 2012 7:50 am 
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Thanks Stanton. I was pulled over the officer showed me the radar and the speed was displayed on the left, i.e. the large display. I didn't notice what, if anything was on the right. Under what circumstances would there be a number on the left when the radar wasn't transmitting (well, I'm assuming it wasn't transmitting otherwise the stationary me would be speeding)?


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Re: Prosecution refused disclosure for speeding charge.
PostPosted: Fri Sep 07, 2012 9:11 am 
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I can't think of any circumstances. Possibly it's a different model that I haven't seen or a totally different brand altogether.


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Re: Prosecution refused disclosure for speeding charge.
PostPosted: Fri Sep 07, 2012 9:27 am 
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That's odd. It is supposed to be a Genesis Decatur handheld. Any idea if the unit comes with one of those clear protector stickers that have a pre-printed image and need to be removed prior to usage? :wink:


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Re: Prosecution refused disclosure for speeding charge.
PostPosted: Wed Sep 12, 2012 5:44 pm 
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ejadoo wrote:
A radar reading must be fool proof to convict someone otherwise the advantage of doubt should go towards the accused.


That's not correct and that misconception is why there is so much discussion about this topic of the fallibility of radar devices. Proof to the level of absolute certainty is not required. All that is required is proof beyond a reasonable doubt. That is why when the officer gets up there and says that they tested the device and it appeared to be working and they used it to confirm the speed of a vehicle that they saw with their eyes and thought was traveling in excess of the posted speed limit they are believed and a conviction is registered.

Arguments about vibrations in a nearby bridge may raise SOME doubt but not enough to amount to REASONABLE doubt. Therefore a conviction may still properly be entered.

I'm not saying that radar devices cannot be challenged - they certainly may be, but remember what the standard of proof is. You have to raise a REASONABLE doubt, not just a theoretical one.

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Re: Prosecution refused disclosure for speeding charge.
PostPosted: Wed Sep 12, 2012 5:48 pm 
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Pepsi wrote:
lol ejadoo, only too true! unfortunately the courts rely on precedent to decide cases so in reality decisions are made by a few select judges and the rest follows or has to follow? I'm not sure if I judge can successfully rule against a precedent. thanks for the link


The referenced US case law has no bearing on Canadian judges. It's barely even persuasive. In Canada judges are bound by decisions of higher court judges in the same province and decisions of other judges of same level of court in the same province are persuasive but not binding. Decisions of judges of other provinces are all just persuasive, with the persuasiveness going up depending on how much higher the court was in that province.

Decisions of the Supreme Court are binding on everyone in the country.

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NOTHING I SAY ON HERE IS LEGAL ADVICE.


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