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Poor Quality Disclosure - what next??
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 29, 2012 1:53 pm 
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I requested a disclosure for speeding and all I received was a copy of one page of a notebook. There was no date, my name or the offense number wasn't on it. The top half had details of the offence and the botton half of the page had some calibration details. The trouble is the offense was at 9:40am and the calibration was 'supposedly done' at 6:30am, but was written down more than three hours later.

Something doesn't add up. Why would you record the offense and then the calibration record 3 hours later?

Should I attach a copy of this for the readers to see?


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Re: Poor Quality Disclosure - what next??
PostPosted: Thu Mar 29, 2012 4:56 pm 
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Location: In YOUR rearview mirror!
adding the notes here would clarify for others, plus could you advise at what the charge speed is so that one of us moderators can put the topic in the proper location, thank you
- i dont follow about the 630am test time and 930am offence time thou. would have to see to know what you mean

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Poor Quality Disclosure - Disclosure attached
PostPosted: Fri Mar 30, 2012 2:27 pm 
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hwybear wrote:
adding the notes here would clarify for others, plus could you advise at what the charge speed is so that one of us moderators can put the topic in the proper location, thank you
- i dont follow about the 630am test time and 930am offence time thou. would have to see to know what you mean


Here's all I got. It's for Speeding 70 in a 60.

Re timings -- the first entry on the page is about the offence which occurred at 9:40am. Below it is the calibration notes for a calibration that was done at 6:30am. Why would you wait over three hours to make calibration notes? Only thing I can think of is that this page was made up especially for the disclosure and does not represent a true copy of the officer's notebook from the time of offense.


Attachments:
File comment: All I got in terms of my disclosure request
hppscan1.jpg
hppscan1.jpg [ 28.01 KiB | Viewed 465 times ]
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Re: Poor Quality Disclosure - Disclosure attached
PostPosted: Fri Mar 30, 2012 3:20 pm 
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Location: In YOUR rearview mirror!
TorontoUser wrote:
Re timings -- the first entry on the page is about the offence which occurred at 9:40am. Below it is the calibration notes for a calibration that was done at 6:30am. Why would you wait over three hours to make calibration notes? Only thing I can think of is that this page was made up especially for the disclosure and does not represent a true copy of the officer's notebook from the time of offense.

ok, that is easy now that i see it, that is one of the most common ways to write police notes.
the notes are on the back of the ticket, the officer adds in the radar/lidar unit used and test times on the back of the same notes, whether at top or bottom, does not matter. This "test times" are directly form the officer's notebook and saves having multiple pieces of paper for the same offence having to be brought to court, efficiency is what it is.

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Re: Poor Quality Disclosure - what next??
PostPosted: Fri Mar 30, 2012 4:50 pm 
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Okay, so that's that.
I guess my only defense is that it would be impossible to get an accurate radar measurement if I entered the roadway, crossed three lanes in front of other vehicles (with cruiser way behind someplace) then came to full stop in the left turn lane, and all this in the space of 400m.


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Re: Poor Quality Disclosure - what next??
PostPosted: Fri Mar 30, 2012 6:35 pm 
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Location: In YOUR rearview mirror!
TorontoUser wrote:
I guess my only defense is that it would be impossible to get an accurate radar measurement if I entered the roadway, crossed three lanes in front of other vehicles (with cruiser way behind someplace) then came to full stop in the left turn lane, and all this in the space of 400m.

pending what type/model of radar, the radar in same direction mode can eliminate other vehicles within a set parameter set by the operator of the unit. Such as the unit I am familiar with, the unit can be set at "x" km speed difference, so in other words vehicles within +/- that "x" of the patrol speed will not be registered as a reading (ie: if set to a 12km/hr difference, patrol speed of 70km, no vehicle from 58-82km travelling in the same direction will be displayed) However, vehicles outside the set parameter, the speed will be obtained

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Above is merely a suggestion/thought and in no way constitutes legal advice or views of my employer. www.OHTA.ca


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Re: Poor Quality Disclosure - what next??
PostPosted: Sat Mar 31, 2012 7:41 am 
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Sigh. What would you suggest then in terms of "beating" this ticket, short of pleading insanity?


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Re: Poor Quality Disclosure - what next??
PostPosted: Sat Mar 31, 2012 10:15 am 
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From examining the notes, it also looks like the officer may actually have locked the radar at 89 km/h in a 60 and only issued you a ticket for 70 km/h. If you decide to go to trial, beware that the prosecutor will probably bump the speed back up to 89 km/h. More $$ and demerit points added if convicted.


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Re: Poor Quality Disclosure - what next??
PostPosted: Sat Mar 31, 2012 1:48 pm 
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So, what do I ? Should I just see what the prosecutor says before the court session starts and settle it then?


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Re: Poor Quality Disclosure - what next??
PostPosted: Sun Apr 01, 2012 12:56 am 
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They wont listen to you on a speeding ticket, they want the money. Best thing to do is point out you have very little disposable income and you need your car for work or whatever. Get that fine down as far as possible by pleading poverty if neccesary and if that is close to the truth.


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Re: Poor Quality Disclosure - what next??
PostPosted: Sun Apr 01, 2012 9:16 am 
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Benjamin Button wrote:
They wont listen to you on a speeding ticket, they want the money. Best thing to do is point out you have very little disposable income and you need your car for work or whatever. Get that fine down as far as possible by pleading poverty if neccesary and if that is close to the truth.


Perhaps the site administrators can clarify this, but I don't think the intent of this site is to openly encourage lying to the court (aka perjury).


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Re: Poor Quality Disclosure - what next??
PostPosted: Sun Apr 01, 2012 3:31 pm 
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Brian Smith wrote:
Benjamin Button wrote:
They wont listen to you on a speeding ticket, they want the money. Best thing to do is point out you have very little disposable income and you need your car for work or whatever. Get that fine down as far as possible by pleading poverty if neccesary and if that is close to the truth.


Perhaps the site administrators can clarify this, but I don't think the intent of this site is to openly encourage lying to the court (aka perjury).


Geez, give Benjamin a break. He was trying to help. Negotiating with a prosecutor before the court is in session is not perjury which is when you have been sworn in according to Perry Mason. :D


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Re: Poor Quality Disclosure - what next??
PostPosted: Sun Apr 01, 2012 4:16 pm 
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Correct me if I'm wrong. Your ticket is for 70 in a 60? Weigh the risk of pleading guilty before trial and pay the set fine, or go to trial and risk a larger fine and demerit points. Most courts are unlikely to listen to the "poverty" line. What they will do is give you is time to pay the fine and if you need more time and can show that you have been paying it off they are likely give you more time.
And Benjamin may feel the wrath of Admin. yet....


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Re: Poor Quality Disclosure - what next??
PostPosted: Sun Apr 01, 2012 5:35 pm 
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Decatur wrote:
Correct me if I'm wrong. Your ticket is for 70 in a 60? Weigh the risk of pleading guilty before trial and pay the set fine, or go to trial....
And Benjamin may feel the wrath of Admin. yet....
. LOL

Yeah, that's what I am going to do (plead guilty). I was just exploring other and cheaper options. Maybe the officer doesn't show up. It wasn't a regular radar trap so maybe I get lucky.


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