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Ontario Highway Traffic Act

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failing to signal
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 21, 2009 10:41 pm 
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Recently pulled over for not switching lanes, on a two lane city road , for a cop on the sidewalk with no lights on . She said I also failed to signal at the red light I was waiting for . Question is , do you have to signal if no traffic is in the area, the cop was parked a 1/2 block up the street. I was told that HTA says that signaling is only required if it can effect other drivers . Thanks


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PostPosted: Wed Jul 22, 2009 6:48 am 
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Location: somewhere in traffic
dhart99 wrote:
Question is , do you have to signal if no traffic is in the area, the cop was parked a 1/2 block up the street
. I was told that HTA says that signaling is only required if it can effect other drivers
.


Yes, you have to signal everything. Is it going to hurt to push the lever up?

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PostPosted: Wed Jul 22, 2009 8:20 am 
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No you don't. I wish everyone did, but it's not illegal if it doesn't affect anyone. I even use mine leaving my driveway :shock:

I beat this one when I was just 17. The JP was a nice guy and pointed out the specifics of this section after I stammered on nervously for several minutes on the stand, lol.

"Section... blah-blah-blah... states that... blah, blah, blah... and since the officer offered no testimony as to the NEED for the defendant to use his signal... CASE DISMISSED!"


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PostPosted: Wed Jul 22, 2009 12:45 pm 
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I hate when the car sales person asks...do you want those optional signal lights installed for $99.99?
A. Why er...yes
Q. For an extra $39.99, would you like the wiring hooked up too
A. yes
Q. For an extra $19.99, would you like a bulb in each lens?
A. Got the wiring, might as well
Great, we'll even toss in a activation handle free!
*****************************************

Joking aside, it has to affect another vehicle's movement :shock:

*****************************************8
Another weirdly worded section. Should just say mandatory to use a signal indicator.
*************************
Although there is a section for having the turn signal activated and making no turn.

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PostPosted: Wed Jul 22, 2009 1:01 pm 
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hwybear wrote:
... there is a section for having the turn signal activated and making no turn.


Just imagine how many seniors Bear could nail with this (Buahahaha)!! :twisted:

Actually, I always wondered about this. You put your signal on to turn, then cancel it because your turn is actually another block up. I typically make the turn even if it's wrong (so as not to mess up other drivers) unless I am certain it will affect no one.


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PostPosted: Wed Jul 22, 2009 11:07 pm 
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Thanks guys I guess ? So the answer is you cannot be charged with failing to signal if no other vehicles are in the area that could be effected by my lack of signals.


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PostPosted: Wed Jul 22, 2009 11:13 pm 
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hwybear wrote:
I hate when the car sales person asks...do you want those optional signal lights installed for $99.99?
A. Why er...yes
Q. For an extra $39.99, would you like the wiring hooked up too
A. yes
Q. For an extra $19.99, would you like a bulb in each lens?
A. Got the wiring, might as well
Great, we'll even toss in a activation handle free!
*****************************************

Joking aside, it has to affect another vehicle's movement :shock:

*****************************************8
Another weirdly worded section. Should just say mandatory to use a signal indicator.
*************************
Although there is a section for having the turn signal activated and making no turn.


I would like to find your parts supplier.
The signal switch for my car is over $400.00 (It comes with wires)
But needs to be installed .

I don't think you need to signal if you are in a lane that clearly indicates it is a turn lane. (what else would you be doing?)

I believe hand signals are still ok. In most cases it would be hard for the cop to see the hand signal from a 1/2 block away.If someone is following to close to me or not paying attention I turn on mine early to see if they get the message.

Light tapping of the brakes can help too.

Cheers
Viper1

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PostPosted: Thu Jul 23, 2009 10:14 pm 
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viper1 wrote:
I don't think you need to signal if you are in a lane that clearly indicates it is a turn lane. (what else would you be doing?)


You could be going straight (if the road allows) or wanting to merge back into a through-lane.

Or you could be one of bookm's co-stars and be looking to pull a turn across all lanes of traffic. :shock:

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PostPosted: Thu Jul 23, 2009 10:33 pm 
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Squishy wrote:
viper1 wrote:
I don't think you need to signal if you are in a lane that clearly indicates it is a turn lane. (what else would you be doing?)


You could be going straight (if the road allows) or wanting to merge back into a through-lane.

Or you could be one of bookm's co-stars and be looking to pull a turn across all lanes of traffic. :shock:


Then you would have to signal.!!!
If you ever want to leave whoever is behind you there. You do the bookem
thing.

I had that done to me one time and no way are you gonna catch them if done just as the light changes.

Cheers
Viper1

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PostPosted: Thu Jul 23, 2009 10:51 pm 
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dhart99 wrote:
So the answer is you cannot be charged with failing to signal if no other vehicles are in the area that could be effected by my lack of signals.


Well to be technically accurate, you can be charged with it, but a conviction is a different matter. Think you're looking for section 142 (1) of the Highway Traffic Act:

Quote:
Signal for left or right turn - 142.

(1) The driver or operator of a vehicle upon a highway before turning to the left or right at any intersection or into a private road or driveway or from one lane for traffic to another lane for traffic or to leave the roadway shall first see that the movement can be made in safety, and if the operation of any other vehicle may be affected by the movement shall give a signal plainly visible to the driver or operator of the other vehicle of the intention to make the movement.


"If the operation of any other vehicle may be affected..." Key thing here: Who might've been affected and how?? (But you said there was no traffic... so... should be beatable in court!)


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PostPosted: Fri Jul 24, 2009 12:07 am 
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viper1 wrote:
Then you would have to signal.!!!
If you ever want to leave whoever is behind you there. You do the bookem
thing.

I had that done to me one time and no way are you gonna catch them if done just as the light changes.

Cheers
Viper1


The point is that having no signal is ambiguous to cars around you. We have no idea if you want to follow the turn lane, or if you are going to go somewhere else without signalling. Your intentions should be clear while driving so that other cars can adapt to the situation.

Flipping that signal stalk takes much less effort than coming up with reasons not to do it. That section really should be requiring a signal at all times, although several states have similar wording. I would argue that for the driver of another vehicle to see you make a turn, then that vehicle is affected by it. Again, it's an issue of ambiguity - was the turn intentional? Has the steering failed? Is the driver alert? Will the car keep turning or continue straight?

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