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Fail To Surrender Permit 7(5)(a)
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PostPosted: Sun Apr 15, 2012 12:45 pm 
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Hello everyone. I've been reading these forums and they seem to be a great help so I thought that I'd give it a shot.

The other day I was one of 4 or 5 people stopped by (separate/individual) OPP cruisers on the highway. I was merging and apparently they got me going 124 (24 over limit). The officer asked for the usual license, insurance and car permit. The car is my father's and I did not have the car permit with me. The officer told me that he was not going to get me for speeding since my record is clean but that he was issuing me a $110 ticket for "Fail to surrender permit 7(5)(a)".

I have the option of Early Resolution, to go to trial, or to pay the fine. I really don't wish to have my clean record...not so clean anymore.

I'm not sure what to do. I do have the permit now, so that is my attempt to fix that problem.

Here's my question: If I end up having to go to court, (I am expecting the officer to be there) is there any chance that he will refer to his notes, state that he caught me speeding at 124km/h (apparently), but only got me for not having a permit? Could they change the charges and charge me for speeding too?

Basically, do I pay the $110? Or do I fight this?

Thank you for taking the time to read this. I appreciate any help.


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Re: Fail To Surrender Permit 7(5)(a)
PostPosted: Sun Apr 15, 2012 2:10 pm 
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Joined: Tue Feb 01, 2011 9:49 pm
Posts: 2110
Location: Ontario
It's quite likely the officer would bring up the initial reason for the stop at trial, as well as the fact that he gave you a break. Regardless, unless you've actually been charged for speeding (i.e. given a ticket), you can't suddenly be convicted at trial. The only real impact it will likely have is make the Courts less likely to give you any type of fine reduction, since you've already been given a break.

And just FYI, the fact that you now have your ownership isn't relevant at trial. The offence is for the time you were stopped. If the officer shows for Court, there's nothing to really fight the charge on.


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Re: Fail To Surrender Permit 7(5)(a)
PostPosted: Sun Apr 15, 2012 2:53 pm 
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Stanton wrote:
It's quite likely the officer would bring up the initial reason for the stop at trial, as well as the fact that he gave you a break. Regardless, unless you've actually been charged for speeding (i.e. given a ticket), you can't suddenly be convicted at trial. The only real impact it will likely have is make the Courts less likely to give you any type of fine reduction, since you've already been given a break.

And just FYI, the fact that you now have your ownership isn't relevant at trial. The offence is for the time you were stopped. If the officer shows for Court, there's nothing to really fight the charge on.


Thanks for you input, Stanton.

Now in regard to this:

Quote:
Changes to Options Available to Defendents



Effective March 31, 2012, anyone receiving a provincial offences offence notice (ticket) will notice that Option Two has changed.

The option to appear before a Justice of the Peace to enter a plea of guilty and make submissions as to penalty (amount of fine or time to pay) will no longer be available.

Instead, Option Two allows defendants to select an Early Resolution meeting with the Prosecutor. By choosing this option, defendants do not forego the right to a trial. Instead, they are requesting a meeting the Prosecutor to discuss the possible resolution of the charge without the requirement to conduct a trial.

Important information:

The request to select Option Two (Early Resolution meeting with the Prosecutor) may be done by completing the back of the ticket.

Delivery must be carried out by mail or in-person to the Provincial Offences Court location indicated on the back of the ticket.
The request must be received by the Provincial Offences Court within 15 days of the offence date.
Anyone residing more than 75 kilometres from the Provincial Offences court indicated on the back of their ticket may request that the meeting be conducted by telephone with the Prosecutor.


Would meeting with the prosecutor mean that he might reduce the charge or possibly dismiss it? I know he could also just send me on my way and tell me to take it to court. Is it worth a try? I am not good at all with this stuff, as you can probably tell.


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Re: Fail To Surrender Permit 7(5)(a)
PostPosted: Sun Apr 15, 2012 3:24 pm 
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Joined: Tue Feb 01, 2011 9:49 pm
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Location: Ontario
I’d say while they might offer you a reduced fine, it’s very unlikely they’d simply withdraw the charge after you’ve already been given a break.
As you said though, worst case is that they tell you to go to trial.


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Re: Fail To Surrender Permit 7(5)(a)
PostPosted: Sun Apr 15, 2012 5:15 pm 
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Stanton wrote:
I’d say while they might offer you a reduced fine, it’s very unlikely they’d simply withdraw the charge after you’ve already been given a break.
As you said though, worst case is that they tell you to go to trial.


Do you think that they would know the history of that night's events? Would the officer have already shown his notes? I'd like to be as informed as possible before speaking to the prosecutor. If I don't have to mention that I was 24 over the limit, I won't.


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Re: Fail To Surrender Permit 7(5)(a)
PostPosted: Sun Apr 15, 2012 5:27 pm 
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Joined: Tue Feb 01, 2011 9:49 pm
Posts: 2110
Location: Ontario
Yes, they will obtain a full copy of the officer's notes prior to making any type of plea deal.


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