i was travelling East on highway 401. I was doign about 115 kms/hr. I saw emergency vehicles in the distance. I wanted to move to the outside lane but was prevented from doing so by a silver Volkswagen golf. I decided to slow down. The Golf slowed down at the same rate of speed and so I was still prevented from moving into the left lane. I was pulled over and tciketed for failing to pass an emergency vehicle with caution. The officer explained that I should have changed lanes. I told the officer there was no way I could have changed lanes safely. He returned to the car and it indicated that i had not slowed down. This is not the case.
i was travelling East on highway 401. I was doign about 115 kms/hr. I saw emergency vehicles in the distance. I wanted to move to the outside lane but was prevented from doing so by a silver Volkswagen golf. I decided to slow down. The Golf slowed down at the same rate of speed and so I was still prevented from moving into the left lane.
I was pulled over and tciketed for failing to pass an emergency vehicle with caution. The officer explained that I should have changed lanes. I told the officer there was no way I could have changed lanes safely. He returned to the car and it indicated that i had not slowed down. This is not the case.
What was the speed that you were travelling at when you have passed the cruiser? Make him lie on the witness stand to get a conviction. You can use the law itself to defend yourself, saying in court that you could not change lanes due to that Golf, and the cop will either lie that you haven't slowed down, or he'll drop the ticket. Getting legal representation can increase you chances of winning this ticket.
What was the speed that you were travelling at when you have passed the cruiser? Make him lie on the witness stand to get a conviction. You can use the law itself to defend yourself, saying in court that you could not change lanes due to that Golf, and the cop will either lie that you haven't slowed down, or he'll drop the ticket.
Getting legal representation can increase you chances of winning this ticket.
"The more laws, the less justice" - Marcus Tullius Cicero
"The hardest thing to explain is the obvious"
I was probably going about 90-95 kms when I passed the cruisers. BTW, this was a trap because there were probably four cruisers on the side of the highway.
I was probably going about 90-95 kms when I passed the cruisers. BTW, this was a trap because there were probably four cruisers on the side of the highway.
Not only was i doing about 90 kms when I passed teh cruisers, but it really bugs me that the ticket indicates ther there were no witnesses when my wife and father-in-law were both inthe car with me. what is that about?
Not only was i doing about 90 kms when I passed teh cruisers, but it really bugs me that the ticket indicates ther there were no witnesses when my wife and father-in-law were both inthe car with me. what is that about?
90 to 95 is not good, as it is just under the speed limit, I can see why they ticketed you. What time of day was it? Were there many cars on the road? Were there any vehicles stopped?
90 to 95 is not good, as it is just under the speed limit, I can see why they ticketed you.
What time of day was it? Were there many cars on the road? Were there any vehicles stopped?
"The more laws, the less justice" - Marcus Tullius Cicero
"The hardest thing to explain is the obvious"
I understand that I was still going fast. The truth is that I wanted to change lanes and never imagined that the Golf would slow down at the same rate of speed. By the time i put my foot back on the break we were already beside the emergency vehicles. The 401 was fairly busy. We were close to chatham and it was about 1 p.m. why is it that the officer didn't indicate that there were witnesses in the car?
I understand that I was still going fast. The truth is that I wanted to change lanes and never imagined that the Golf would slow down at the same rate of speed. By the time i put my foot back on the break we were already beside the emergency vehicles. The 401 was fairly busy. We were close to chatham and it was about 1 p.m.
why is it that the officer didn't indicate that there were witnesses in the car?
You can bring the passengers to testify that there truly was a vehicle blocking your lane change at all times. Make sure to request the disclosure though. If his notes do not mention that silver car (whatever he may term it) then you have excellent chances of winning the ticket. Good luck!
You can bring the passengers to testify that there truly was a vehicle blocking your lane change at all times. Make sure to request the disclosure though. If his notes do not mention that silver car (whatever he may term it) then you have excellent chances of winning the ticket.
Good luck!
"The more laws, the less justice" - Marcus Tullius Cicero
"The hardest thing to explain is the obvious"
401 is NEVER busy at 1pm in the Chatham area....even on a long weekend. The witness box is for other drivers/police officers, not people in the same vehicle. there are 2 sections of the offence.....section 1 is move over, section 2 is slow down....for those that like to assist with these matters, you will have to tell them which offence you were charged with.....as the other offence is not relevent to a defence.
401 is NEVER busy at 1pm in the Chatham area....even on a long weekend.
The witness box is for other drivers/police officers, not people in the same vehicle.
there are 2 sections of the offence.....section 1 is move over, section 2 is slow down....for those that like to assist with these matters, you will have to tell them which offence you were charged with.....as the other offence is not relevent to a defence.
Above is merely a suggestion/thought and in no way constitutes legal advice or views of my employer. www.OHTA.ca
See here, download and print off sample disclosure, fill it out, and mail it with your ticket. Disclosure is any and all evidence against you. And yes, if you get it beforehand, it's much more useful than after the trial.
NancyT wrote:
I have never been to court before. what do you mean when you say I should ask for "full disclosure"? Is this something I have to do beforehand?
See here, download and print off sample disclosure, fill it out, and mail it with your ticket. Disclosure is any and all evidence against you. And yes, if you get it beforehand, it's much more useful than after the trial.
"The more laws, the less justice" - Marcus Tullius Cicero
"The hardest thing to explain is the obvious"
I've got to dissent on this one. S 159.1(1) is slow down and S 159.1(2) is slow down and move over. Slow down is not an option, it's mandatory. At 90 km/h, this is not a sufficient reduction to the posted limit. It may have been a significant reduction to what you were driving but that doesn't matter - you were speeding before. It also doesn't matter what the Golf was doing if you didn't slow down significantly. For example, if you had managed to change lanes but you were still going 90 km/h, you would still be guilty though less likely to be stopped. While you can concentrate on the "I couldn't move over" story, the risk is both you and the passengers will have to estimate your speed and that's where you'll get into serious trouble. You need to concentrate on disclosure and stays to fight your ticket and avoid a trial and testifying. The chances of mucking it up are too great. Bear: Passengers can testify at trial. See R. v. Andrews, 2005 as an unrelated example.
I've got to dissent on this one. S 159.1(1) is slow down and S 159.1(2) is slow down and move over. Slow down is not an option, it's mandatory. At 90 km/h, this is not a sufficient reduction to the posted limit. It may have been a significant reduction to what you were driving but that doesn't matter - you were speeding before.
It also doesn't matter what the Golf was doing if you didn't slow down significantly. For example, if you had managed to change lanes but you were still going 90 km/h, you would still be guilty though less likely to be stopped. While you can concentrate on the "I couldn't move over" story, the risk is both you and the passengers will have to estimate your speed and that's where you'll get into serious trouble.
You need to concentrate on disclosure and stays to fight your ticket and avoid a trial and testifying. The chances of mucking it up are too great.
Bear: Passengers can testify at trial. See R. v. Andrews, 2005 as an unrelated example.
Hello, I was travelling to Windsor for the holidays (I live in Toronto) and right about Chatham I saw two police cars parked on the side of the highway. They were in the shoulder and looked like one was just sitting there and the other was ticketing someone. I was driving in the right lane and slowed down to about 80 kms and passed them. As soon as I did one of them followed me and stopped me, hit me with a ticket for not moving to the left lane, $490. I have never heard of this law UNTIL now. Of course 3-4 kms down the road I passed another 6 cops doing exactly the same thing. Really is Chatham that hard up for money? On the way home on the 401 near about Milton I saw a cop on the side of the highway and I moved as far left away from him as I could, of course nobody else did. I watched 10 cars just pass him by at full speed. I want to know what are my chances at a trial?
Hello, I was travelling to Windsor for the holidays (I live in Toronto) and right about Chatham I saw two police cars parked on the side of the highway. They were in the shoulder and looked like one was just sitting there and the other was ticketing someone. I was driving in the right lane and slowed down to about 80 kms and passed them. As soon as I did one of them followed me and stopped me, hit me with a ticket for not moving to the left lane, $490. I have never heard of this law UNTIL now.
Of course 3-4 kms down the road I passed another 6 cops doing exactly the same thing. Really is Chatham that hard up for money?
On the way home on the 401 near about Milton I saw a cop on the side of the highway and I moved as far left away from him as I could, of course nobody else did. I watched 10 cars just pass him by at full speed.
Slim to none.. It doesn't mean that you shouldn't go to court and dispute your charges. You have other outs (mostly procedural stuff.. check out ticketcombat.com). For this offence, the cop was fairly reasonable with you. Basically within the lower end of the $400-$2000 scale for the first time around.
Slim to none.. It doesn't mean that you shouldn't go to court and dispute your charges. You have other outs (mostly procedural stuff.. check out ticketcombat.com).
For this offence, the cop was fairly reasonable with you. Basically within the lower end of the $400-$2000 scale for the first time around.
What kind of a man would put a known criminal in charge of a major branch of government? Apart from, say, the average voter.
It has nothing to do with money. There are 2 bridges in Chatham-Kent dedicated towards 2 Chatham-Kent OPP officers that have been killed by vehicles striking them while stopped on highway 401. 1) Sgt Marg Eve Memorial Bridge is at Highway 40/Communication Rd/ Exit 90 2) Cst Jim McFadden Memorial Bridge is at Merlin Rd (about 70km marker) This does not include 2 cruisers in the past 5 years being side swiped while parked, a 3rd having it's mirror taken off while parked, a 4th cruiser having the passenger side "sprayed" with gravel as the vehicle slid past the cruiser on the gravel shoulder (which is a shoulder farther over than the paved shoulder the cruiser was parked on), and a 5th last winter when an officer dropped to the ground as a vehicle lost control and slid over him while he was walking in the ditch :shock: Needless to say this law is heavily enforced when time and manpower permits. The law has been in place since December 2002. *************************************************** Even if it was not a law, common courtesy and defensive driving should be thought of and move away from anything on the shoulder. I have seen kids playing "tag" around a broken down vehicle. I have seen people changing tires, laying under their vehicle, with their legs on the driving lane. That's just to name a couple examples of many dangers I see.
Karen wrote:
Of course 3-4 kms down the road I passed another 6 cops doing exactly the same thing. Really is Chatham that hard up for money?
It has nothing to do with money.
There are 2 bridges in Chatham-Kent dedicated towards 2 Chatham-Kent OPP officers that have been killed by vehicles striking them while stopped on highway 401.
1) Sgt Marg Eve Memorial Bridge is at Highway 40/Communication Rd/ Exit 90
2) Cst Jim McFadden Memorial Bridge is at Merlin Rd (about 70km marker)
This does not include 2 cruisers in the past 5 years being side swiped while parked, a 3rd having it's mirror taken off while parked, a 4th cruiser having the passenger side "sprayed" with gravel as the vehicle slid past the cruiser on the gravel shoulder (which is a shoulder farther over than the paved shoulder the cruiser was parked on), and a 5th last winter when an officer dropped to the ground as a vehicle lost control and slid over him while he was walking in the ditch
Needless to say this law is heavily enforced when time and manpower permits.
Even if it was not a law, common courtesy and defensive driving should be thought of and move away from anything on the shoulder. I have seen kids playing "tag" around a broken down vehicle. I have seen people changing tires, laying under their vehicle, with their legs on the driving lane. That's just to name a couple examples of many dangers I see.
Above is merely a suggestion/thought and in no way constitutes legal advice or views of my employer. www.OHTA.ca
The best option with this sort of ticket is the route of a plea-bargain to a reduced charge. Not knowing about this being the law will not gain any sympathy from a Justice of the Peace. It is the law in most US states and Canadian provinces. In some US states you can serve jail time for it. The only defence for not moving over is that it was impossible to do so. If the emergency vehicle has its lights on, you must move over. To add to that, there is no way of knowing if said vehicle will suddenly pull back onto the highway without looking. If people can make sudden U-turns in front of transport trucks they can pull out just inches in front of speeding cars. If I see a stopped vehicle, I move over. If you're looking ahead, there's always a gap to find and time to move into it. Had to do that a couple of times heading through the Chatham/Kent area over the weekend, including for a stopped cruiser at the 122 km marker.
The best option with this sort of ticket is the route of a plea-bargain to a reduced charge. Not knowing about this being the law will not gain any sympathy from a Justice of the Peace. It is the law in most US states and Canadian provinces. In some US states you can serve jail time for it. The only defence for not moving over is that it was impossible to do so. If the emergency vehicle has its lights on, you must move over.
hwybear wrote:
Even if it was not a law, common courtesy and defensive driving should be thought of and move away from anything on the shoulder.
To add to that, there is no way of knowing if said vehicle will suddenly pull back onto the highway without looking. If people can make sudden U-turns in front of transport trucks they can pull out just inches in front of speeding cars. If I see a stopped vehicle, I move over. If you're looking ahead, there's always a gap to find and time to move into it. Had to do that a couple of times heading through the Chatham/Kent area over the weekend, including for a stopped cruiser at the 122 km marker.
Sorry just happened to notice this thread. bear will know this. Last week on 401 there was an accident at side of the road. He has his lights on so i moved over didnt want that ticket, thats for sure! Now what happens if the officer is at the side of the road and out of his car but he has no lights on??? Lets say he has pulled someone over turns off his lights and is giving the guy a ticket. Do we have to move over? And what if the officer is at the side of the road trying to hide doing speed enforcement is it fine to go right by or is it the law to move over?
Sorry just happened to notice this thread.
bear will know this.
Last week on 401 there was an accident at side of the road.
He has his lights on so i moved over didnt want that ticket, thats for sure!
Now what happens if the officer is at the side of the road and out of his car but he has no lights on??? Lets say he has pulled someone over turns off his lights and is giving the guy a ticket.
Do we have to move over?
And what if the officer is at the side of the road trying to hide doing speed enforcement is it fine to go right by or is it the law to move over?
You are not required by law to move over unless the lights are on, but common courtesy would be to move over if there is enough room in the centre lane.
You are not required by law to move over unless the lights are on, but common courtesy would be to move over if there is enough room in the centre lane.
You are not required by law to move over unless the lights are on, but common courtesy would be to move over if there is enough room in the centre lane.
BANG ON ..... emergency lights must be activated
Above is merely a suggestion/thought and in no way constitutes legal advice or views of my employer. www.OHTA.ca
hwybear, Thank you for that information, no lights were flashing, just two cruisers parked on the right shoulder when I passed. This is good to know and I'm grateful that I don't have to travel this strip of highway very often.
hwybear,
Thank you for that information, no lights were flashing, just two cruisers parked on the right shoulder when I passed. This is good to know and I'm grateful that I don't have to travel this strip of highway very often.
Then you request for the complete disclosure. See what they wrote down. During court, you ask the witness (cop, provided they show up), "were the light on the cruisers activated?"
Then you request for the complete disclosure. See what they wrote down.
During court, you ask the witness (cop, provided they show up), "were the light on the cruisers activated?"
"The more laws, the less justice" - Marcus Tullius Cicero
"The hardest thing to explain is the obvious"
Does a police officer have to have a reason for being at the side of the road with it's lights on?...or can they just sit there doing paperwork waiting for someone to screw up. Like entrapment
Does a police officer have to have a reason for being at the side of the road with it's lights on?...or can they just sit there doing paperwork waiting for someone to screw up. Like entrapment
I will always have my lights on when on the shoulder and that is completing my "paperwork" from the previous stop which is more than justified. Now personally, unless I have someone stopped, another cruiser has someone stopped OR the person I just sent on their way is merging onto the highway and up to speed, I won't bother anyone. However, come bring your office chair and put it 2ft from the travelled portion of the highway and see how you feel when someone drives so close to your chair that it shakes.
I will always have my lights on when on the shoulder and that is completing my "paperwork" from the previous stop which is more than justified.
Now personally, unless I have someone stopped, another cruiser has someone stopped OR the person I just sent on their way is merging onto the highway and up to speed, I won't bother anyone.
However, come bring your office chair and put it 2ft from the travelled portion of the highway and see how you feel when someone drives so close to your chair that it shakes.
Above is merely a suggestion/thought and in no way constitutes legal advice or views of my employer. www.OHTA.ca
I went to whats called a "first attendance" this week and met with a prosecutor instead of going right to court. I had been charged with failing to slow down and proceeding with Caution. But had been told I was pulled over for not getting into the left lane. I had slowed down and had moved my car to the white dotted line as I could see he had no one pulled over. I truly felt I had proceeded with caution. She obviously felt I had too as she dropped the ticket, and agreed that he had used the wrong charge in the first place, She also made note that police should not be on the side of the road with there lights on if they have no one pulled over. But lesson learned and I will make sure I move over the next time no matter what the case. :D
I went to whats called a "first attendance" this week and met with a prosecutor instead of going right to court. I had been charged with failing to slow down and proceeding with Caution. But had been told I was pulled over for not getting into the left lane. I had slowed down and had moved my car to the white dotted line as I could see he had no one pulled over. I truly felt I had proceeded with caution. She obviously felt I had too as she dropped the ticket, and agreed that he had used the wrong charge in the first place, She also made note that police should not be on the side of the road with there lights on if they have no one pulled over.
But lesson learned and I will make sure I move over the next time no matter what the case.
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Hey question that I think here's probably the best place to get the answer:
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