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Ontario Highway Traffic Act

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PostPosted: Tue Feb 09, 2010 3:32 pm 
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If your trial date on 1st of March and you filed the 11b application on 08 Feb'10 - YOU ARE NOT LATE.


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PostPosted: Tue Feb 09, 2010 11:00 pm 
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Traffic Law wrote:
If your trial date on 1st of March and you filed the 11b application on 08 Feb'10 - YOU ARE NOT LATE.


Really? By my calculations, (not counting weekends or the day of the trial) 5 days per week multiplied by 3 weeks equals 15 days (minus 1 for Family Day would equal 14)

Could you please explain why I am not late? Am I miscalculating in some way?

Thanks


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PostPosted: Mon Mar 01, 2010 5:31 pm 
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UPDATE:
Some bad news... but I am very proud of my girlfriend.

My girlfriend went for her trial today, she met with the prosecution and did not fall for their tricks, made her way to the trial and stood before the justice and asked for a stay because of non-disclosure. The Prosecution (apparently somewhat un-intelligent) stood before the justice with a blank stare saying "I didnt know that she had asked for disclosure, there is no record in her file".

My girlfriend then provided the fax copy with confirmation notice and a receipt showing that she had sent a registered letter with another request. The Prosecution then said that the fax had been sent prior to the trial date being issues (which is accurate) and she claims that the registered letter was sent to the courthouse but never made it to her or the prosecution office. (we have proof that it was signed for). The prosecution complained that my girlfriend did not have a copy of what was in the registered letter, just a receipt of the package being sent. (1. who would have a copy of the contents in the envelope, because they would be IN THE ENVELOPE and 2. if the contents are just a printout from her computer, there would be no way to confirm what the original said)

Interestingly, the prosecution DID have the notice of constitutional question in her folder. So, they did know atleast 15 days before trial that she had requested the disclosure and did not attempt to contact her to ask why she submitted a 11B but not a disclosure request? Also, they had the affidavit that goes with the 11B that says she asked two times for disclosure..

So, in the end, the Judge told my girlfriend to come back in August with the proof of what was inside the registered letter. The Prosecution then provides my girlfriend with "disclosure" which was the copy of hand written notes and photocopy of the ticket. My girlfriend attempted to explain the reprocussions of missing another day of work for this but to no avail. From the sounds of it, the justice seems to have been implying if she brings the copy of the registered letter, her case may be won. But now I worry that she has the disclosure, I assume this non-disclosure argument is lost?

In the end, the cocky prosecutor makes a stupid comment to my girlfriend "When you come to court and represent yourself, you should cover all your bases, cross your T's and dot your I's...." when Ironically, it was the prosecution that was completely unprepared with no documentation... She kept trying to squirm her way out of the problem and probably had a big sigh of relief when the judge decided to postpone it.

So, August will be the new trial date (over 1 year from the offense) but I have a feeling this postponement will be blamed on my girlfriend, not the prosecution, even thought my girlfriend was ready.

Should she file a stay based on it being unreasonable amount of time? Should she request FULL disclosure because there is no typed notes, bylaw's for the sign, etc.. I would also like to request the records for the officer's wrist watch maintenance and/or car clock, since the time issue is an issue here.. A slow battery can cause my girlfriend to be legally going through the sign.

Thanks for the help, she is very upset to have to miss ANOTHER day of work for this, after she did everything she needed to do....


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PostPosted: Mon Mar 08, 2010 11:21 am 
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Anyone have any help or insights?

Thanks


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PostPosted: Mon Mar 08, 2010 7:52 pm 
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mikeyb wrote:
So, in the end, the Judge told my girlfriend to come back in August with the proof of what was inside the registered letter.


Just a question... do you know if the JP told the clerk "make sure I am seized for that day"? Regardless, I think the JP was preparing for a favourable ruling to your girlfriend. Otherwise, he would've ordered the trial to proceed.

mikeyb wrote:
But now I worry that she has the disclosure, I assume this non-disclosure argument is lost?


Well, I'd say now the Crown failed to provide disclosure and caused an unreasonable delay. Now, she has an excellent chance of arguing prejudice due to the Crown's failure to properly handle her case. So go for the 11B and start thinking of numerous reasons why the Crown's failure to cross the "t"s and dot the "i"s caused your girlfriend needless aggravation.

mikeyb wrote:
In the end, the cocky prosecutor makes a stupid comment to my girlfriend "When you come to court and represent yourself, you should cover all your bases, cross your T's and dot your I's...."


That would usually spur a response of "look who's talking"...

As for disclosure, if the notes are legible, that covers it. "No bylaw provided" might work if she can show that she researched it and was unable to find a bylaw that ordered the placement of the sign.

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* The above is NOT legal advice. By acting on anything I have said, you assume responsibility for any outcome and consequences. *
http://www.OntarioTicket.com OR http://www.OHTA.ca


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PostPosted: Mon Mar 08, 2010 11:58 pm 
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Radar Identified wrote:
mikeyb wrote:
So, in the end, the Judge told my girlfriend to come back in August with the proof of what was inside the registered letter.


Just a question... do you know if the JP told the clerk "make sure I am seized for that day"? Regardless, I think the JP was preparing for a favourable ruling to your girlfriend. Otherwise, he would've ordered the trial to proceed.


She does not recall anything about the JP asking to be on this trial the next time. Although, she is fairly sure that the JP was strongly implying that she should bring the paperwork back next time and she will win her stay. So, let's hope that he may see to it that he is on the case next time. But I would assume that the JP would leave notes for the next JP explaining the situation?

Quote:
Well, I'd say now the Crown failed to provide disclosure and caused an unreasonable delay. Now, she has an excellent chance of arguing prejudice due to the Crown's failure to properly handle her case. So go for the 11B and start thinking of numerous reasons why the Crown's failure to cross the "t"s and dot the "i"s caused your girlfriend needless aggravation.


Does she need to re-file another affidavit and form 4f etc. as we did the first time for the lack of disclosure. Obviously, we adjust some of the information to include the latest information and length of time it will be before she can get this case over with? If so, when do you think we should file the paperwork? ASAP or around 15-20 days of the new trial date? Is there anything she can do in order to be sure to prove to the court that she has tried her hardest to get this over with?

Thanks for all the help!


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PostPosted: Tue Mar 09, 2010 10:15 am 
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All,

I have been reading all of these posts and am in the process of fighting a turn contrary to a sign in an intersection. I have done the disclosure thing and did not receive the by law so will be filing the 11b.

The problem I have is I did not realize that 15 days is required and am now two weeks from my trial date.

Any advice? I was thinking to send someone on my behalf to my court time and ask for a new trial date on the basis that this would give me the opportunity to represent my self. Then I would file the stay in plenty of time for my new trial. Will this work?

Any thoughts would be appreciated.


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PostPosted: Thu Apr 01, 2010 3:23 pm 
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Hey All,
Just wondering if anyone has some advice.. I dont want to miss out on anything.

Should she be doing anything from now until 15 days before the re-scheduled trial and she submits another 11B?

Thanks for the help


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Lack of disclosure
PostPosted: Sat Apr 03, 2010 4:52 pm 
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Your girlfriend should have asked that the "certificate of offence" be marked to indicate that the reason for the adjournment was for lack of disclosure, so that the court knows why the case was adjourned on the first court date.

Now to do the case properly the court can request that you provide proof as to why the case was adjourned on the first court date. They can demand that you produce transcripts of the first court date. Because its going to be a different prosecutor and different justice, and they will not know what happened on the first trial date.

As well if you have filed an 11b application, you have to file a new one.

You should also send a second requests for disclosure. I would suggest that you make copy's of all the documentation that you send to the court. Or appear in person at the prosecutors office and get them to stamp the request as received.

_________________
Chris Conway
Retired Toronto Traffic Officer, Hit & Run Squad Detective,
Breathalyzer Tech, Radar/Highway Patrol
Licenced Paralegal


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PostPosted: Sat Apr 03, 2010 7:52 pm 
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Quote:
Your girlfriend should have asked that the "certificate of offence" be marked to indicate that the reason for the adjournment was for lack of disclosure, so that the court knows why the case was adjourned on the first court date.


Is it too late to get this done? There must be a way to have one created/copied from court documents? How would anyone have known this information in her position? I am surprised the Justice did not suggest to her to ask for one if he knew that she would need it?

It was her mistake to not bring a copy of what was in the envelope that she had sent to the prosecution. Would it help if she has a letter from a lawyer that had seen the document prior to sending to confirm that he did see the document and it was sent?

Quote:
As well if you have filed an 11b application, you have to file a new one.

You should also send a second requests for disclosure. I would suggest that you make copy's of all the documentation that you send to the court. Or appear in person at the prosecutors office and get them to stamp the request as received.


Does it matter when she files another 11b? Should she wait until 15 days before the trial or do it asap? Should it include lack of disclosure for the first trial, and/or the right to a speedy trial?

So, she should send another (third) disclosure request? She was given the officers hand written notes.. Nothing else

Thanks for the speedy reply!


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PostPosted: Sat Apr 03, 2010 8:51 pm 
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File the 11B ASAP and see if you can order the transcripts at the same time when you visit the courthouse.

The only time it is "too early" to file the 11B is if the 11-month "window" has not gone by. (Technically it is 10.5 months but who's counting...)

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PostPosted: Sun Apr 04, 2010 12:52 am 
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Quote:
Radar Identified
File the 11B ASAP and see if you can order the transcripts at the same time when you visit the courthouse.

The only time it is "too early" to file the 11B is if the 11-month "window" has not gone by. (Technically it is 10.5 months but who's counting...)


Thanks for the help.. I will have her submit the 11b this week.. Can you guys please let me know if I should add the lack of disclosure in addition to the time issue? Also, who do I speak to at the coursehouse in order to get the transcript?

thanks again


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