My mom received a ticket under OHTA 159(1). She was turning left at an intersection. The light was green and there were no cars in front of her. She entered the intersection and waited for incoming traffic to clear so that she could complete the turn. As she waited, a fire truck with its sirens on was driving from the street onto which she was turning (perpendicular). He honked at her (presumably for her to get out of the way) and she proceeded to make the turn (and clear the intersection). At the same time, the light changed to amber. Soon after, a police car pulled her over and asked her if she knew why she was being stopped. She really had no idea. My mom is a very careful driver and has been driving for 30 years without any accidents or tickets. The officer told her that she should not have made the turn, and that the fire truck could have passed her. She also said that she could arrest her for this offence, but will do her a favor and not do so. We've asked for a trial (date is set) and requested disclosure. We received handwritten notes and nothing else. We had asked for dashboard cam footage (from both the police cruiser and fire truck) but this wasn't provided (it isn't clear whether this is because there is no footage or because they don't want to use it and therefore aren't disclosing). In the notes, the officers states that my mom's car was behind the white line (and NOT in the middle of the intersection); this is not true, because any driver who is turning left enters the intersection rather than waiting behind the white line when the light is green. The officer also wrote that my mom said she "panicked", which is also not true. This isn't the first time my mom had to clear the path for an emergency vehicle and knew exactly what to do. According to the OHTA, one needs to pull over to the right to allow an emergency vehicle, except when in an intersection, at which time the driver should clear it and then pull over. I was wondering if anyone has any advice what to do with this ticket. It's not the cost or the demerit points, but the fact that my mom didn't do anything wrong. I would really appreciate any comments or suggestions.
My mom received a ticket under OHTA 159(1). She was turning left at an intersection. The light was green and there were no cars in front of her. She entered the intersection and waited for incoming traffic to clear so that she could complete the turn. As she waited, a fire truck with its sirens on was driving from the street onto which she was turning (perpendicular). He honked at her (presumably for her to get out of the way) and she proceeded to make the turn (and clear the intersection). At the same time, the light changed to amber.
Soon after, a police car pulled her over and asked her if she knew why she was being stopped. She really had no idea. My mom is a very careful driver and has been driving for 30 years without any accidents or tickets. The officer told her that she should not have made the turn, and that the fire truck could have passed her. She also said that she could arrest her for this offence, but will do her a favor and not do so.
We've asked for a trial (date is set) and requested disclosure. We received handwritten notes and nothing else. We had asked for dashboard cam footage (from both the police cruiser and fire truck) but this wasn't provided (it isn't clear whether this is because there is no footage or because they don't want to use it and therefore aren't disclosing). In the notes, the officers states that my mom's car was behind the white line (and NOT in the middle of the intersection); this is not true, because any driver who is turning left enters the intersection rather than waiting behind the white line when the light is green. The officer also wrote that my mom said she "panicked", which is also not true. This isn't the first time my mom had to clear the path for an emergency vehicle and knew exactly what to do.
According to the OHTA, one needs to pull over to the right to allow an emergency vehicle, except when in an intersection, at which time the driver should clear it and then pull over.
I was wondering if anyone has any advice what to do with this ticket. It's not the cost or the demerit points, but the fact that my mom didn't do anything wrong. I would really appreciate any comments or suggestions.
Did the fire truck approach from the red light direction? Maybe a diagram would be more helpful. Did the police officer see this happen, or did the fire department report her? There probably is not any video which is why you did not get any. Can you scan and post the notes (blank out personal/officer info)?
Did the fire truck approach from the red light direction? Maybe a diagram would be more helpful.
Did the police officer see this happen, or did the fire department report her?
There probably is not any video which is why you did not get any.
Can you scan and post the notes (blank out personal/officer info)?
Yes, the fire truck was approaching from the direction that had a red light. I attached a diagram that I hope will clarify (see next post due to limit of three files/post). The officer apparently saw it happen, although her notes state that she heard the fire truck honking, which I believe is what got the officer's attention. I've attached the officer's notes as well.
Yes, the fire truck was approaching from the direction that had a red light. I attached a diagram that I hope will clarify (see next post due to limit of three files/post). The officer apparently saw it happen, although her notes state that she heard the fire truck honking, which I believe is what got the officer's attention. I've attached the officer's notes as well.
You do not have the required permissions to view the files attached to this post. Register to view.
Exactly. My mom was in the middle of the intersection, waiting to turn left (as any driver would do in the same situation) and the fire truck honked at her to get out of the way. That's why we're so confused about why this officer ticketed her for completing the turn to clear the intersection (despite what she wrote in her notes).
argyll wrote:
The diagram seems to show the car directly in the way of the fire truck.
Exactly. My mom was in the middle of the intersection, waiting to turn left (as any driver would do in the same situation) and the fire truck honked at her to get out of the way. That's why we're so confused about why this officer ticketed her for completing the turn to clear the intersection (despite what she wrote in her notes).
159(1)(a) reads: Approaching, following emergency vehicles Stop on approach of vehicle with flashing lights or bell or siren sounding 159. (1) The driver of a vehicle, upon the approach of a police department vehicle with its bell or siren sounding or with its lamp producing intermittent flashes of red light or red and blue light, or upon the approach of an ambulance, fire department vehicle or public utility emergency vehicle with its bell or siren sounding or its lamp producing intermittent flashes of red light, shall immediately bring such vehicle to a standstill, (a) as near as is practicable to the right-hand curb or edge of the roadway and parallel therewith and clear of any intersection; According to your moims version, she did the correct thing. According to the police notes, she did not. So the problem you have is that it will be your moms word against the officers word. Who do you think they believe? I would be contacting the fire department and trying to get the names of any firefighters in the front seat of the vehicle and get statements from them and subponea them to come to court if they agree with your mom.
159(1)(a) reads:
Approaching, following emergency vehicles
Stop on approach of vehicle with flashing lights or bell or siren sounding
159. (1) The driver of a vehicle, upon the approach of a police department vehicle with its bell or siren sounding or with its lamp producing intermittent flashes of red light or red and blue light, or upon the approach of an ambulance, fire department vehicle or public utility emergency vehicle with its bell or siren sounding or its lamp producing intermittent flashes of red light, shall immediately bring such vehicle to a standstill,
(a) as near as is practicable to the right-hand curb or edge of the roadway and parallel therewith and clear of any intersection;
According to your moims version, she did the correct thing. According to the police notes, she did not.
So the problem you have is that it will be your moms word against the officers word. Who do you think they believe?
I would be contacting the fire department and trying to get the names of any firefighters in the front seat of the vehicle and get statements from them and subponea them to come to court if they agree with your mom.
Thanks so much for your feedback jsherk. I will try to contact the Fire Department and get in touch with the firefighters in the vehicle that day. Another idea I had is to go to the intersection in question, and film cars turning left for 10-20 minutes. Perhaps if we can show that a couple dozen cars turning left on a green light enter the intersection while preparing to make the turn (like any normal driver would do), that will cast reasonable doubt on the officer's statement that my mom waited behind the white line. This unfortunate situation has made us lose faith in our law enforcement officials. It's unfair that they can say whatever they want, and are believed simply because they are LE. Going forward, I'm going to buy dashboard cams for both my mom and myself, in case anything like this happens again. At least that way we will have video evidence of the truth.
jsherk wrote:
159(1)(a) reads:
Approaching, following emergency vehicles
Stop on approach of vehicle with flashing lights or bell or siren sounding
159. (1) The driver of a vehicle, upon the approach of a police department vehicle with its bell or siren sounding or with its lamp producing intermittent flashes of red light or red and blue light, or upon the approach of an ambulance, fire department vehicle or public utility emergency vehicle with its bell or siren sounding or its lamp producing intermittent flashes of red light, shall immediately bring such vehicle to a standstill,
(a) as near as is practicable to the right-hand curb or edge of the roadway and parallel therewith and clear of any intersection;
According to your moims version, she did the correct thing. According to the police notes, she did not.
So the problem you have is that it will be your moms word against the officers word. Who do you think they believe?
I would be contacting the fire department and trying to get the names of any firefighters in the front seat of the vehicle and get statements from them and subponea them to come to court if they agree with your mom.
Thanks so much for your feedback jsherk. I will try to contact the Fire Department and get in touch with the firefighters in the vehicle that day.
Another idea I had is to go to the intersection in question, and film cars turning left for 10-20 minutes. Perhaps if we can show that a couple dozen cars turning left on a green light enter the intersection while preparing to make the turn (like any normal driver would do), that will cast reasonable doubt on the officer's statement that my mom waited behind the white line.
This unfortunate situation has made us lose faith in our law enforcement officials. It's unfair that they can say whatever they want, and are believed simply because they are LE. Going forward, I'm going to buy dashboard cams for both my mom and myself, in case anything like this happens again. At least that way we will have video evidence of the truth.
--------------------------------------------------------------
* NO you cant touch your phone
* Speeding is speeding
* Challenge every ticket
* Impaired driving, you should be locked up UNDER the jail
" It's unfair that they can say whatever they want, and are believed simply because they are LE" Unfortunately jsherks view is quite jaded, which you are buying into...don't...jsherk is wrong. The justices of the peace don't always take the officer's statement as true over a accused person's. I have seen on many, many occasions where an accused won over the officer, it actually happens often. If you go into court and cross examine the officer to the best of your abilities trying to cast some doubt on their version, and then your mother may give her side of the story which may cast doubt as to what actually happened. The JP may be left in doubt as to what did happen and your mother should be acquitted...Personally, I would not contact the fire dept. to take statements from those on the call...They are not obligated to talk to you, and don't forget who's side they represent...
" It's unfair that they can say whatever they want, and are believed simply because they are LE"
Unfortunately jsherks view is quite jaded, which you are buying into...don't...jsherk is wrong. The justices of the peace don't always take the officer's statement as true over a accused person's. I have seen on many, many occasions where an accused won over the officer, it actually happens often. If you go into court and cross examine the officer to the best of your abilities trying to cast some doubt on their version, and then your mother may give her side of the story which may cast doubt as to what actually happened. The JP may be left in doubt as to what did happen and your mother should be acquitted...Personally, I would not contact the fire dept. to take statements from those on the call...They are not obligated to talk to you, and don't forget who's side they represent...
Hi, I am new to the forum. I have been trying to get information off of here and www.ticketcombat.com for my case.
I was given a ticket for going 122km/h in a posted 100km/h zone at Hwy 401 east at Thickson Rd in Whitby ON on April 10th, 2009.
I find this absolutely absurd, since I was in the left most lane of the 401 approximately(within 5km/h) following the speed of traffic in my lane. The guy in…
Hey this is my first ticket so as much information that people can provide will be appreciated. I was making the drive home going around 90kph(in a 80) behind what I knew was an undercover police car. The cop abruptly pulled to the side and pulled back in behind me to pull me over. Now I reduced my speed to below 80 when the cop pulled to the side but he claimed he had me clocked at 109kph and…
On Wednesday I attended court at 1530 Markham Road, courtroom E2, in order to fight my speeding ticket. My original plan was to plead not guilty, and to watch all the people who went before me, the process, the Prosecutor and the Justice Of The Peace so I could strategize and form the best plan for my defence at trial. I had done some research online and sort of knew I wanted to defend myself,…
About 5 months ago I was driving along a two-way road approaching an intersection. The road had a left/ straight turning lane and a right turning lane. There was an 18 wheel gravel truck occupying the left lane at a red light. I pulled behind the truck intending to drive straight. After not moving for about 1 second, I check my rear view mirror, signaled and changed lanes to the right…
I am currently working for an auto parts delivery company and they contracted me to work as a courier.
As I left my base to make my first delivery which was less than 300 meters away from the shop, I had my seat belt off because i was under the impression, according to Section 106 Exception #6 subsection (c) of the highway traffic act, that I would be exempted from the seat belt law. The rule…
Got a ticket yesterday for "Insecure Load" contrary to HTA Sec 111(2). $160. I was pulling a utility trailer in which I had loaded a steel and wood cabinet. Total length of cabinet is 57.5". 14.75" (1/4 of the cabinet) was sticking out over the side of the trailer at about a 45 degree angle, the rest (3/4) was inside the trailer. The trailer has sides 24" high. I didn't have a tie-down or bungee…
I've been researching for months for defence strategy and basic trial information regarding my speeding ticket. However, the information is so conflicting that I have no confidence whatsoever that I know what I'm doing.
I didn't get this info from a friend of a friend, it came from this website, court officials, case laws, and a consultation with a traffic ticket fighting company.
So I was driving east bound pulling an empty tandem trailer on a gravel highway. Eventually I caught up to a truck pulling a fifth wheel. The speed limit was 70km/h and I don't quite remember but I'm almost 100% that the guy in front of me was driving at 60km/h. After being behind him for a few kilometers and getting two cracks in my windshield from rocks off his tires, I decided to pass him. I…
I have been driving for over 10 years without any tickets and accidents what so ever. Unfortunately my luck ran out this past Friday; when the officer pulled me over doing 80 in a 50 zone in Mississauga, Ontario. Officer was very friendly and polite not to mention nice enough to reduce the charge to 15KM.
On the speeding ticket it now says doing 65km in a 50 zone. Never having a speeding…
hi everyone im just wondering if its right for a cop to have my car impounded and give me a traffic ticket for improper plates when my car didnt leave my property, yes i knew the plates werent to my car but on private property it dont matter aslong as it dosent go onto public property. am i right with this that i shouldnt have gotten the ticket or my car impounded?????????????
Have been busy and haven't had much time to follow up on this...
Went to court having not received disclosure (and was not organized enough to apply for a stay), so the trial was adjourned. They photocopied the officer's ticket and notes and provided a log sheet from the plane. I've sent another request for the rest of the disclosure items.
So here's my question -- can an officer amend the ticket…
Hi guys, I got pulled over last night and was ticketed with HTA 172, I was going 157 on a 100 on 400N and was wondering what I should do. I was using cruise control but the guy in the lane to my left was driving into my lane irresponsibly to I sped up to get ahead of him and just my luck that's when an OPP cruiser pulled up behind me flashing his lights. My court date is at the end of the month…
If anyone can answer this I would greatly appreciate it.
Friday morning I checked my mail and received a letter from the MTO stating that under section 47(1) of the HTA the Registrar of Motor Vehicles has decided to suspend my driving privilege for medical reasons. This was due to a report submitted by a physician in compliance with section 203 of the HTA. Enclosed with that letter were forms to…
Ok so looking for some advice in regards to my wife's speeding ticket 120k in 100 (I was in vehicle so witnessed most - but was resting at initial clock.)
whats the likelihood of positive outcome of an 11b (or an officer no show, which I suspect doesn't really happen as much as web/Ads would have you believe) of 8months.
Wife REALLY doesn't want to go, and of course I'm the one doing all of the…
I know I shouldn't have driving but I slept at my buddies' place and I thought I was ok to drive in the morning.. needless to say I still drove and got pulled over.
Background details:
I was pulled over in the morning last week, apparently going 120 km/hr on 90km Northbound DVP. Two cop cars tailed me for a bit, saw them in my rearview mirror while on the left lane, slowed down to…
I got two tickets on Feb 20 2011. One for red light, and the other for Stop sign. I knew I had a good chance at getting off on the red light, because the officer couldn't actually see the light facing me. He was at an opposite angle, further up the street.
I set a court date for both tickets. On April 22 I moved to a new place. I went to the Service Ontario location and renewed my licence…
Winnipeg's police officers have been told to issue more traffic tickets, in part to increase revenue.
And a union representing cops says the move could hurt their efforts to curb the city's gang violence.
Police Chief Keith McCaskill said last night he -- and he alone, without input from Mayor Sam Katz -- recently made the call to patrolling officers and to those in specialized units to step up…
I'm wondering if anyone could enlighten me on what to do about the following scenario:
I was pulled over by a YRP constable because I only had one front head light working. Upon being pulled over, I also realized my insurance card was expired by one month and my car permit was not on me at all. (It doesn't matter now but my valid insurance card was sitting at home in an envelope…
I have a wicked prosecutor in my area, he is an evil man and will lie and cheat, whatever is necessary for him to win. I got a yellow light infraction ticket and the cop was a no show. I requested the charge dismissed and it went like this:
Me: I request the charge be dismissed because the officer is not here
Prosecutor: No, we are going to adjourn the trial so the officer can attend
Accident happened at a regular intersection with turning lanes and lights. I was turning left. The light turned yellow, and the car approaching sped up to make the light. I thought he was stopping, so i made the turn. At the time of the collision the light was red.
I understand that it is my fault. I'm just wondering what my best course of action is.
alright well to get started ive developed a passion for longboarding
for those of you who dont already know a longboard is a big skateboard too heavy for tricks and stuff but boy can they ever go fast
my hobbies include going up the escarpment here in hamilton and stoney creek and riding down the roads leading to the lower part of the city. just wondering here. what would happen if i was going down…
My court date is nearing at old city hall at appeals court.
iwhats going to happen and what do i do?
do I present my certificate of offence and point out to the judge the fine was incorrect, I did not appear and am now appealing on the grounds the Justice of the peace erred and failed to quash the ticket on the basis of the certificate not being properly examined and is not complete and regular on…