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Ontario Highway Traffic Act

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Re: truly was not speeding
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PostPosted: Sat Dec 05, 2015 3:31 pm 
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Joined: Thu Jul 26, 2012 1:18 pm
Posts: 1654
Yes it is you in front of the Judge asking for a new trial.

Yes the crown will be there to possibly object. They may not object though.

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Re: truly was not speeding
PostPosted: Sat Dec 05, 2015 4:32 pm 
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Posts: 122
So a NEW trial then...not an appeal of the first trial/conviction?

I can't wait to see how this goes (drips with sarcasm)

Judge: Let me understand this. The crown offered you 65 in a 50 twice and you turned it down twice. Then you don't show up for your trial. And now you want another one?
Me: Yes, sir.
Judge: Why should I do that?
Me: Because I have physical evidence that suggests the car could not have been where it is said to have been. And the crown told me to appeal rather than recall my name at the trial.
Crown: He had his chance. Screw him.
Judge: Screw you.

If granted, would the new trial be held in the lower court where it should have been if I showed up on time, or in the appeal court?


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Re: truly was not speeding
PostPosted: Wed Dec 16, 2015 9:16 pm 
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Posts: 122
Well, my prediction (previous post above) of what the judge would say at my appeal hearing was pretty close, but like I said, there is always a surprise in court. At least to me anyway. Here's how it went.

Judge: "I have reviewed the matter. You were late for your trial and you were convicted and now you want another trial is that right?"
Me: "Yes, sir."
Judge: Pauses. Scowling. Shakes his head. "I could say something but it will do me no good".
Me: (Thinking I'm about to get blasted)
Judge: "This is not justice. I am going to overturn the conviction and give you a new trial".

I'm pretty sure I would he would not have overturned the conviction if I was a no show at trial. But I wasn't a no show...I was late and I checked in with the crown. I almost didn't go to the court that day because I thought there was no use. Learned something.


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Re: truly was not speeding
PostPosted: Wed Dec 16, 2015 9:25 pm 
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Joined: Thu Jul 26, 2012 1:18 pm
Posts: 1654
Well that is good news! :)

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Re: truly was not speeding
PostPosted: Wed Dec 16, 2015 9:37 pm 
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Posts: 122
Yes it is I guess.

Where is it written that I am entitled to disclosure of the radar operator manual? Furthermore, where is it written that I am entitled to anything at all? For example, I want the VIN of the patrol car. It's key to my defense. What do I say to the judge when the crown refuses to give it to me?


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Re: truly was not speeding
PostPosted: Wed Dec 16, 2015 10:08 pm 
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Joined: Thu Jul 26, 2012 1:18 pm
Posts: 1654
You are entitled to prepare your defense and make full answer to the charges.

Anything you want, like manual and VIN number, will have to be argued about why you need it and why it is important to your defense. If you can't convince the prosecutor to give it to you, then you need to convince the JP to make the prosecutor give it to you. If you can't convince the JP then you need to convince the Judge at your appeal that you should have gotten it. So basically you need to make a disclosure request with as much detail as possible to make these arguments.

I just posted this earlier today which is a starting point:
topic7372.html

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Re: truly was not speeding
PostPosted: Thu Dec 17, 2015 11:03 am 
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Joined: Tue Sep 15, 2015 10:20 am
Posts: 281
I am curious, how can a vin number be key to your defence?


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Re: truly was not speeding
PostPosted: Thu Dec 17, 2015 12:53 pm 
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Joined: Fri Jun 25, 2010 3:30 am
Posts: 708
screeech wrote:
I am curious, how can a vin number be key to your defence?


+1

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Re: truly was not speeding
PostPosted: Thu Dec 17, 2015 12:57 pm 
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it gets me info about the car. see post 6, para 6.


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Re: truly was not speeding
PostPosted: Thu Dec 17, 2015 6:13 pm 
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Joined: Tue Sep 15, 2015 10:20 am
Posts: 281
Well, I can't say I have ever seen that one in court before...If I had to take a semi educated guess, it is not going to happen this time either. The data you seek will be unreliable at best. The vin may give you the make, model and engine size...your weight will not be accurate given after market additions to the cruiser for such equipment as light bar, cage, computer, emergency equipment in trunk and so on...And as soon as you make "assumptions" it all goes out the window anyway. The court will only consider facts, not assumptions. Of course your expert will tell you what you want to hear, he wants to get paid, and generally they are not cheap. I would take a hard long look at your experts CV before investing too much money...


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Re: truly was not speeding
PostPosted: Thu Dec 17, 2015 9:23 pm 
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Posts: 122
CV...... We're talking 10th grade physics here. Care to bet against me? I have pay pal.


Last edited by rank on Thu Dec 17, 2015 9:32 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: truly was not speeding
PostPosted: Thu Dec 17, 2015 9:26 pm 
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Posts: 122
Looking for engine size, model year and a few other things. Not really looking to get weight from the VIN. Maybe I'll revise my disclosure so they have to run down to the local grain elevator and weigh the actual unit and get me scale ticket.

They can either give what I need or not. Either way I win.


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Re: truly was not speeding
PostPosted: Thu Dec 17, 2015 10:01 pm 
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Joined: Fri Jun 25, 2010 3:30 am
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It'll be interesting. I doubt the justice is going to give you what you're hoping for or put as much weight on your physics calculations as you are expecting but who knows. Do come back and let us know how it went.

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Re: truly was not speeding
PostPosted: Thu Dec 17, 2015 10:47 pm 
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Joined: Tue Dec 01, 2015 9:54 pm
Posts: 122
We should find out very soon what the crown is ordered to disclose. If I was the crown and the officer, I would just drop it. It's just wouldn't be worth putting my time and reputation on the line fighting a true believer.


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Re: truly was not speeding
PostPosted: Thu Dec 17, 2015 11:19 pm 
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Joined: Thu Jul 26, 2012 1:18 pm
Posts: 1654
Most people have no clue how the court operates, so when the prosecutor gets a request for stuff like you are asking for, they will just blow it off and not give it to you. If you have given some good reasons why you need it, then I would file an 11b charter application 3 weeks before the trial saying you have not received it as this will force the prosecutor to come up with their reasons why they are not going to give it to you.

I hope you are successful in getting this information, however do not be surprised if the JP simply agrees with the prosecutor that you don't need it. This is how our great unjustice works!

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