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Ontario Highway Traffic Act

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First Ticket - 86 in a 60 - Questions
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 05, 2011 10:46 pm 
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Joined: Wed Jan 05, 2011 10:29 pm
Posts: 8
Hello all,

On a sideroad, one-lane in each direction, I was caught doing 86 in a 60 for my first ticket in 10+ years of driving.

Background:
- mid-day, good driving conditions
- travelling in pack of 3-4 cars, going about the same speed
- offer driving in opposite direction pulls a u-turn and pulls me over
- 86 in a 60 ticket
- officer showed me his radar, it did say 86

Questions:
- should I fight this? I think I should...
- I was travelling in a pack of 4 cars going approximately the same speed, why was I the one "picked"?... woudn't his radar have picked up all 4 cars doing 80+?
- because he was driving in the opposite direction and he passed 3 others cars and me in such a short distance, how do I know the 86 was from my car?
- officer only wrote 1 street name (not intersection).... this street has multiple speed changes.... should he have specified nearest intersection?

I appreciate any help!


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Re: First Ticket - 86 in a 60 - Questions
PostPosted: Wed Jan 05, 2011 11:11 pm 
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Joined: Mon Sep 08, 2008 8:26 pm
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Location: Toronto
Some answers:

Fighting this is the only way to avoid the full fine and demerit points. You should be able, at worst, to plea-bargain to 15 over, since this is your first offence. Take your ticket to the courthouse and choose option 3, or mail it if they have that option. They'll then set a trial date. Option 2 is pleading guilty to the same offence with an explanation, which usually is not a good strategy.

You were picked because you were probably the first vehicle he caught up to. They can't stop everybody. He likely looked at the traffic stream, estimated your speed around 85, and got a reading of 86 as he went by you. There are any number of possibilities. Unfortunately, when there are mulitple speeders in one area, the police usually only get one, and, it was your turn this time.

As for the location, no intersection is required. If he wrote the street down, that is sufficient.

If you're not comfortable with court proceedings, you can always hire a paralegal to represent you. However, you should be able to plead this down on your own, which is what a paralegal would likely do anyway. Check out the rest of the sections on speeding, and also "courts and procedure" to get some insight.

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* The above is NOT legal advice. By acting on anything I have said, you assume responsibility for any outcome and consequences. *
http://www.OntarioTicket.com OR http://www.OHTA.ca


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Re: First Ticket - 86 in a 60 - Questions
PostPosted: Wed Jan 05, 2011 11:18 pm 
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Location: In YOUR rearview mirror!
and if you were the very last one, all three other vehicles out of beam, therefore your the solo vehicle remaining

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Above is merely a suggestion/thought and in no way constitutes legal advice or views of my employer. www.OHTA.ca


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Re: First Ticket - 86 in a 60 - Questions
PostPosted: Thu Jan 06, 2011 9:00 pm 
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Joined: Wed Jan 05, 2011 10:29 pm
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Thanks for the information.

What does it mean to "see a prosecutor" first?


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Re: First Ticket - 86 in a 60 - Questions
PostPosted: Thu Jan 06, 2011 9:24 pm 
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Talk to them before the trail.

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NOTHING I SAY ON HERE IS LEGAL ADVICE.


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Re: First Ticket - 86 in a 60 - Questions
PostPosted: Thu Jan 06, 2011 9:36 pm 
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Joined: Wed Jan 05, 2011 10:29 pm
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Thanks, Simon.

I'm just confused on what I do when I take my ticket to select option #3. Do I just say, "I'm disputing the charge."

Will I have to provide a defence to anyone immediately or will that be at a later date?


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Re: First Ticket - 86 in a 60 - Questions
PostPosted: Thu Jan 06, 2011 10:18 pm 
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Just tell them you're exercising the option, that's all the secretary will ask or needs to know. You don't have to say anything about defence until an actual trial, if you have one.

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NOTHING I SAY ON HERE IS LEGAL ADVICE.


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Re: First Ticket - 86 in a 60 - Questions
PostPosted: Wed Feb 16, 2011 10:16 pm 
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Hello again,

Got my court date in the mail---late April. There was a notice where I can "request disclosure". Could someone please let me know what this is and if I should proceed with it?

Also, is there anything else I should do prior to my court date in April?

Thanks!


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Re: First Ticket - 86 in a 60 - Questions
PostPosted: Wed Feb 16, 2011 11:41 pm 
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'Requesting Disclosure' simply means finding out all of the relevant information about to your case - in this situation, it would be the officers notes from when he pulled you over. In order to fight your ticket properly, you'll definitely need that info.


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Re: First Ticket - 86 in a 60 - Questions
PostPosted: Mon Feb 28, 2011 2:01 pm 
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Hello again,

I requested disclosure via e-mail about 1.5-2 weeks ago. I got a confirmation saying they received it, but haven't got the information yet.

Any idea on the tyipcal timeline for this?

Thanks.


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Re: First Ticket - 86 in a 60 - Questions
PostPosted: Mon Feb 28, 2011 11:53 pm 
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In most jurisdictions usually longer than 1.5 - 2 weeks.

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NOTHING I SAY ON HERE IS LEGAL ADVICE.


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Re: First Ticket - 86 in a 60 - Questions
PostPosted: Fri Mar 11, 2011 7:20 pm 
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Joined: Wed Jan 05, 2011 10:29 pm
Posts: 8
Hello again,

I got my disclosure package this week via fax. It contains about 3 "notepad" pages of the officer's notes. It also contains information on the calibration and maintenance of the radar device. What should I be looking for and how do I proceed with using this disclosure?

The only thing in the officer notes that seemed weird was the fact that he guessed I was going between 80-85 before turning on his radar. How would he guess within a 5kph range? He said I was behind 4 other cars. He turned his radar on "about halfway" through the pack and caught me at 86.

Anything I can work with here or is there anything I should focus on?

Thanks!


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Re: First Ticket - 86 in a 60 - Questions
PostPosted: Fri Mar 11, 2011 9:25 pm 
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Joined: Tue Feb 01, 2011 9:49 pm
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Location: Ontario
RandomPilar wrote:
The only thing in the officer notes that seemed weird was the fact that he guessed I was going between 80-85 before turning on his radar. How would he guess within a 5kph range?


May sound a little weird but it's normal. An officer should visually observe your vehicle speeding prior to activating the radar to confirm their suspicion. Without the visual observation, there is no way to show the radar reading is for your particular vehicle. As for the accuracy of their observation, that's pretty reasonable as well. An experienced traffic officer will easily spend several hours of every day conducting speed enforcement. Figure how many vehicles they just observe (not stop) every day, add that up over a few years, and you're talking thousands of observations at least. Like anything in life, put enough time into something and you become pretty good at it. I've seen newer officers in Court estimate speeds within 10-20 km/hr range, but 5 km/hr sounds pretty reasonable for an experienced officer.


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Re: First Ticket - 86 in a 60 - Questions
PostPosted: Sun Mar 20, 2011 7:46 pm 
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Joined: Wed Jan 05, 2011 10:29 pm
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Thanks for the reply. Where I am confused is how to approach my April 28th trial date. Do I reference the disclosure? How do I approach it? I have the date and the disclosure, but I'm not sure what else to prepare or how to approach this?

Thanks.


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