How to file an 11B

gottafightmyticket
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Re: How to file an 11B

Unread post by gottafightmyticket on

Let me start by saying thank you so much for all of the awesome information on this website!!! Really, most of us would not be able to do any of this stuff without sites like this, and I found this one particularly helpful.

So, I just wanted to contribute to this board by sharing my own experience. I won't have an outcome to share for a few weeks, but once I have my court date I will absolutely let everyone know if I was successful! I basically ended up using primarily the approach suggested here, but tweaked to fit my case (e.g. parking ticket; trial in Toronto at 70 Centre St., which is only courtrooms and only for parking tickets, as I understand it...no real clerks or anything - though a bunch of really nice, pretty funny security guards who wished me well and tried to help me find a clerk), and my complete lack of time or money (e.g. an extra fax and one less "house call" to serve paperwork). So, here are the steps I took, once I had my application ready to go:

1. Since trial is at 70 Centre St. and there are no proper clerks there, I went to 137 Edward St. (in hopes of avoiding Queen St. altogether), 2nd floor. Waited at first window (information window, I believe), and told them I was filing an 11b. They gave me a number starting with “M” for motions. I waited, and when I was called to the window, I told them I needed 3 copies of my Notice of Application... sworn.
2. Faxed my application to Attorney General of Canada, Attorney General of Ontario and to the prosecutor’s office at 60 Queen St. (416-338-6986).
3. Returned to 137 Edward St., and repeated process of going to information window, stating I was filing an 11b, and getting an “M” number. Waited and waited.
4. Swore and signed 6 copies of 16F affidavits, 2 copies for each of the 3 faxes sent. Then gave them one of my 3 copies of the application (which they stamped and kept), along with one copy of each of the three 16F’s, and a copy of each of the 3 fax receipts. Then they stamped my other 2 copies of the sworn application, which I took back with me, along with my copies of the 3 fax receipts and the 3 sworn 16F’s.

All told, I saved myself 3 personal visits to the Attorney Generals’ offices, and Queen St. I saved myself $30 on faxes by walking into various small businesses in my neighbourhood and explaining that I had "gotten myself into a bit of a pickle" (i.e. not realizing what was involved in filing an 11b), until someone took pity on me and sent the faxes for me! I did tell them that I hoped that my doing all of this would in some small way contribute to their ability to fight their parking tickets in the future (e.g. taking up court time, helping establish our 11b rights in similar cases, etc.), should they need to. :lol:

Other notes:
-My original court date was just a few days over a year from the offence date.

-I did get an adjournment so I could file all of this paperwork, and I did not request transcripts from the first date, but as advised on the other site I will say something to the effect of “your Worship, I do not have the transcripts, but I was there, and I am happy to swear to what happened, if this would please the Court.”

-Also, I did not include the actual previous cases (Morin, Askov, Andrade), but did include a tab for Jurisprudence in which I stated:

The following is the legal basis for the constitutional question:

According to the Canadian Charter of Rights and Freedom, Section 11(b), any person charged with an offence has the right to be tried within a reasonable time. The right to have charges stayed when section 11(b) is violated has been supported by the Supreme Court of Canada (R, v, Askov, [1990] 2 S.C.R. 1199; R. v. Morin, [1992] 1 S.C.R. 771). Furthermore, delays of just over 11 months in “minor offences” have been deemed unreasonable and to be in violation of Section 11(b), mandating a stay of proceedings (R. ex rel City of Toronto v. Andrade, 2011 ONCJ 470).


This seems to me to satisfy the legal requirement of providing a legal basis for my constitutional question, though in retrospect perhaps I should have left out the actual words “...constitutional question” since I didn’t file a 4F. Also, probably should have picked up on the "s" missing from the end of "...Rights and Freedom." :roll: Should they bother me about not including the cases, I would simply respond that I was certain they would be very familiar with the cases, and I truly apologize if this is not the case, but hope that the citations were helpful, if they needed to look them up.” Too sarcastic? :P I don’t know – but I’m not sure I care anymore...this is so much work, it’s crazy (though in all fairness most of the work came from having to figure it all out)!

-I did not have my ticket, as I did not request disclose (didn’t realize I should until it was too close to the date)...they, of course, have it, as they take it when you file for a court date in the first place, leaving you with just the intention to appear slip. I did include both notices for both court dates.

So, my date is at the end of April – I will update as to how it works out, so that others will know if my approach was successful (e.g. faxing prosecutor’s office instead of going in; not having transcripts, etc.).


cessnabmw
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Unread post by cessnabmw on



cessnabmw
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Unread post by cessnabmw on

cessnabmw wrote:I have a thread here that I need help with please.

http://www.ontariohighwaytrafficact.com ... tml#p31564

When filing an 11B, can a cover letter be added to cite all the delays?

Also - where is the latest template for an 11B please.

Would appreciate any help please. Thanks!


iFly55
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Unread post by iFly55 on



cessnabmw
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Unread post by cessnabmw on

iFly55 wrote:
cessnabmw wrote:
cessnabmw wrote:I have a thread here that I need help with please.

http://www.ontariohighwaytrafficact.com ... tml#p31564

When filing an 11B, can a cover letter be added to cite all the delays?

Also - where is the latest template for an 11B please.

Would appreciate any help please. Thanks!
You should include all the delays in your sworn statement. Take a look at the OP's sample 11b app: http://scopezoom.com/11b/StayPDF.pdf
Great!!! Thank you so much for help in this thread and my other one. Will use this sample to build mine. Where can I get the word or versions, or that I can edit to suit my case?


brettingsworth
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Unread post by brettingsworth on

I wanted to thank everyone for contributing to this thread. I just patterend a lot of my 11b after this example and some other assistance from others. I wanted to share the ease I had in submitting the motion today to help others. I attended the Toronto East (Markham Rd.) office and followed the following steps:

1.) Prior to leaving home, I served the Attorney General of Ontario & Attorney General of Canada via fax (as I was told by both the Prosecutor's Office/General Toronto Ticket line that this was fine and would significantly cut down on more trips/etc.)
2.) Arrived at the Court Admin office and explained to the clerk I was filing an 11b. I received an "M" ticket for motions/court appointments. She asked if I had served the prosecutors office yet. I advised NO and she confirmed that I should be "sworn" in first prior to doing that.
3.) The clerk took my 4 copies of the application and "swore" me in and signed them all. She reviewed my fax confirmations that both Attorney Generals had received my faxes and then signed the affidavits of service for them.
4.) She then signed & "swore" in all the documents & sent me to the prosecutors office to serve them.
5.) I served the prosecutor's office and they stamped all of my applications. They advised no stamping or review of the affidavits was required. She advised that was my responsibility to provide that on court day if it was necessary. The prosecutor's office kept one copy of the application.
6.) I returned downstairs to see the same clerk again. She keep one copy of the application, one copy of proof of fax to both Attorney General's and one copy of the affidavits to the Attorney General's.

That's it! In court in 3 weeks and hoping this is successful. I'll attempt to check back in and let you all know.


brettingsworth
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Unread post by brettingsworth on

As promised, I am happy to report that my 11b charter application was accepted by the judge. The prosecutor, despite knowing her argument was likely to fail still wanted to argue it before the justice. The justice recognized that my 21 month delay was more like 17 months and that the majority of the delay could and should be attributed to the prosecution and that they had a duty to try me in a reasonable time frame. The prosecutor argued again that they wanted me to appear a 5th time and spend money to order transcripts. I informed the justice this was my 4th appearance and was encouraged by the previous justice to pursue this motion. He noted that this delay was totally unfair and I won!!!

The justice did advise that the Morin & Askov case law could be deemed not applicable but did attribute them as serving a purpose in this matter amongst many other matters to show this delay was not warranted. All I can say, keep up the fight, document everything and make sure you do your due diligence to request disclosure promptly and request court dates promptly and don't go for unnecessary delays.


bill_097
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Unread post by bill_097 on

iFly55 wrote:
cessnabmw wrote:
cessnabmw wrote:I have a thread here that I need help with please.

http://www.ontariohighwaytrafficact.com ... tml#p31564

When filing an 11B, can a cover letter be added to cite all the delays?

Also - where is the latest template for an 11B please.

Would appreciate any help please. Thanks!
You should include all the delays in your sworn statement. Take a look at the OP's sample 11b app: http://scopezoom.com/11b/StayPDF.pdf

Would transcripts be required or is just noting the delays sufficient? Also, how does one fax the 11b?

TIA!


iFly55
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Unread post by iFly55 on

bill_097 wrote:Would transcripts be required or is just noting the delays sufficient? Also, how does one fax the 11b?

TIA!
Transcripts will be required for previous appearances in court; you're better off submitting the 11b application in person to the courts and to the crown.

You can however fax it to the attorney generals of Ontario & Canada.

You have to use a fax machine, you can do this anywhere: Staples, Kinkos & library. Make sure you print a fax receipt, and then fill out 16B Affidavit of Services and swear to a 'Commissioner of Oath'. There are detailed instructions in this thread's first post.


bill_097
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Unread post by bill_097 on

iFly55 wrote:
bill_097 wrote:Would transcripts be required or is just noting the delays sufficient? Also, how does one fax the 11b?

TIA!
Transcripts will be required for previous appearances in court; you're better off submitting the 11b application in person to the courts and to the crown.

You can however fax it to the attorney generals of Ontario & Canada.

You have to use a fax machine, you can do this anywhere: Staples, Kinkos & library. Make sure you print a fax receipt, and then fill out 16B Affidavit of Services and swear to a 'Commissioner of Oath'. There are detailed instructions in this thread's first post.

Thanks for the reply.

So for faxing, could the below be done:

1- I fax one copy to the Attorney-General of Ontario and one copy to the Attorney-General of Canada.
2- Keep the fax receipts.
3- Go to the Prosecutors and have them served.
4- Have them stamp 4 copies and keep one.
5- Go to waiting room/line up for clerks.
6- Have the Court served.
7- Bring two 16B Affidavits of Service (one for each fax I sent to the attorneys-general) to clerk.
8- Have Affidavits of Service sworn on with clerk keeping one copy each with the fax receipts.

Thanks again.


Millstone
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Unread post by Millstone on

I have to submit a s.7 'disclosure not received' Charter challenge. So I can use the basic format of the StayPDF.pdf in the OP (I found the original) but just remove references to Askin/Morin and replace with Stinchcombe, replace references to 11(b) with 7, and include copies of the requests for disclosure?


iFly55
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Unread post by iFly55 on

Normally the remedy for 'disclosure not received' is not a stay; the remedy is that you get disclosure.

What items did you put in your disclosure request? What has the prosecution given you so far?


Millstone
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Unread post by Millstone on

iFly55 wrote:What items did you put in your disclosure request?
o a full copy of the police officer’s notes;
o a copy of both sides of the officer’s copy of the ticket (Notice of Offence);
o a typed version of any hand written notes;
o witness will say statements;
o witness statements;
o any statements made by the defendant;
o copies of the original notes of such statements; and
o the names and address, occupation and criminal record of the persons providing such information.
What has the prosecution given you so far?
Absolutely nothing


daggx
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Unread post by daggx on

Millstone wrote:
iFly55 wrote:What items did you put in your disclosure request?
o a full copy of the police officer’s notes;
o a copy of both sides of the officer’s copy of the ticket (Notice of Offence);
o a typed version of any hand written notes;
o witness will say statements;
o witness statements;
o any statements made by the defendant;
o copies of the original notes of such statements; and
o the names and address, occupation and criminal record of the persons providing such information.
What has the prosecution given you so far?
Absolutely nothing
What was the original charge? If this is just a regular traffic ticket then there are a number of things on that list that won't exist. However they still at least owe you a copy of the officer's notes, so you should be able to get those and then have your court date rescheduled so that you will have time to review them and build a case.


Millstone
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Unread post by Millstone on

daggx wrote:
Millstone wrote:
iFly55 wrote:What items did you put in your disclosure request?
o a full copy of the police officer’s notes;
o a copy of both sides of the officer’s copy of the ticket (Notice of Offence);
o a typed version of any hand written notes;
o witness will say statements;
o witness statements;
o any statements made by the defendant;
o copies of the original notes of such statements; and
o the names and address, occupation and criminal record of the persons providing such information.
What has the prosecution given you so far?
Absolutely nothing
What was the original charge? If this is just a regular traffic ticket then there are a number of things on that list that won't exist. However they still at least owe you a copy of the officer's notes, so you should be able to get those and then have your court date rescheduled so that you will have time to review them and build a case.
I understand. It's just a generic list full of everything. However I have been in contact with this prosecutor's office for a previous charge with the same form and they were forthcoming with information then. This case is about a 109 in an 80 charge. Court is on Halloween.






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