After passing a person in "authority" on a country road four months later, the OPP served a notice to appear for careless driving. Proving diligence and care should not be a problem. The only witness are two persons, each one I passed. No cars were approaching in the opposite direction....truthfully, I'm not sure what this power-trippers problem is. After I passed him, he aggressively chased me. I'm looking for recent cases to advocate that passing is not against the law! Thanks.
After passing a person in "authority" on a country road four months later, the OPP served a notice to appear for careless driving.
Proving diligence and care should not be a problem. The only witness are two persons, each one I passed. No cars were approaching in the opposite direction....truthfully, I'm not sure what this power-trippers problem is. After I passed him, he aggressively chased me.
I'm looking for recent cases to advocate that passing is not against the law!
Passing in itself is not, however, speeding while passing may be illegal. How fast was the LEO going, what was the speed limit, and how fast were you going when you overtook him/her?
Passing in itself is not, however, speeding while passing may be illegal. How fast was the LEO going, what was the speed limit, and how fast were you going when you overtook him/her?
"The more laws, the less justice" - Marcus Tullius Cicero
"The hardest thing to explain is the obvious"
Yes, your correct. Once I receive disclosure and obtain the name of the witness who took this aggressive pursuit against me, I will formalize a complaint to the OPP for his own careless driving behaviour.
Yes, your correct. Once I receive disclosure and obtain the name of the witness who took this aggressive pursuit against me, I will formalize a complaint to the OPP for his own careless driving behaviour.
That makes things very interesting, in a bad way. I had mistakenly believed by reading your initial post that you had passed a police officer (which wasn't the case). The good news is, careless driving is one of the hardest HTA charges to prove, so the Crown has an uphill battle. Just out of curiosity, how did you become aware of the fact that a person with "power" status was the one who made the complaint? Did the police tell you? Also, did this person-of-status manage to positively identify you when the alleged incident happen, other than just note your licence plate? (I know... sounds stupid... but...) If he could not get a clear look at who was driving the vehicle and be able to identify you later, their chances of a conviction are almost nil. This is an offence where they must identify the driver. They will require this person to attend court for a conviction, at which point he'll get embarrassed on the witness stand. Getting a paralegal involved would be worth every penny, IMHO. The whole scenario reeks of abuse-of-power. In the mean time, put together some concise notes on exactly what happened, the weather, road conditions, vehicles involved, scenario, etc. If this person "aggressively chased you," that is not so much "careless driving" on his part, but it falls rather nicely under section 172. :twisted:
That makes things very interesting, in a bad way. I had mistakenly believed by reading your initial post that you had passed a police officer (which wasn't the case). The good news is, careless driving is one of the hardest HTA charges to prove, so the Crown has an uphill battle. Just out of curiosity, how did you become aware of the fact that a person with "power" status was the one who made the complaint? Did the police tell you?
Also, did this person-of-status manage to positively identify you when the alleged incident happen, other than just note your licence plate? (I know... sounds stupid... but...) If he could not get a clear look at who was driving the vehicle and be able to identify you later, their chances of a conviction are almost nil. This is an offence where they must identify the driver. They will require this person to attend court for a conviction, at which point he'll get embarrassed on the witness stand. Getting a paralegal involved would be worth every penny, IMHO. The whole scenario reeks of abuse-of-power.
In the mean time, put together some concise notes on exactly what happened, the weather, road conditions, vehicles involved, scenario, etc. If this person "aggressively chased you," that is not so much "careless driving" on his part, but it falls rather nicely under section 172.
And how else would you suggest a police officer catch any vehicle without being aggressive? What you might think is aggressive could be normal driving for police to catch a violator, which police have been trained to do.
bughead wrote:
Yes, your correct. Once I receive disclosure and obtain the name of the witness who took this aggressive pursuit against me, I will formalize a complaint to the OPP for his own careless driving behaviour.
And how else would you suggest a police officer catch any vehicle without being aggressive?
What you might think is aggressive could be normal driving for police to catch a violator, which police have been trained to do.
Above is merely a suggestion/thought and in no way constitutes legal advice or views of my employer. www.OHTA.ca
Bear, we just got another piece of the story where the aggressive driver was not a police officer, just a "person of power". Policitian? Celebrity? BOOKM?!
Bear, we just got another piece of the story where the aggressive driver was not a police officer, just a "person of power". Policitian? Celebrity? BOOKM?!
And how else would you suggest a police officer catch any vehicle without being aggressive? What you might think is aggressive could be normal driving for police to catch a violator, which police have been trained to do. I have seen these people work they are top notch. Cheers Viper1
hwybear wrote:
bughead wrote:
Yes, your correct. Once I receive disclosure and obtain the name of the witness who took this aggressive pursuit against me, I will formalize a complaint to the OPP for his own careless driving behaviour.
And how else would you suggest a police officer catch any vehicle without being aggressive?
What you might think is aggressive could be normal driving for police to catch a violator, which police have been trained to do.
I have seen these people work they are top notch.
Cheers
Viper1
"hang onto your chair when reading my posts
use at your own risk"
Just out of curiosity, how did you become aware of the fact that a person with "power" status was the one who made the complaint? Did the police tell you? Answer: The Federal police told me...the witness is the local fire chief. They arrested me for impaired. After three hours in detention, three breath tests, which resulted in zero alcohol results after their threats to admit guilt or they would charge me with refusing to take the test, they finally let me go (my kids had the pleasure of watching me be arrested). The Federal police charged me with careless driving. After my wife spoke with the arresting officer, telling him she would make him appear as a joke in court, two days later they called me and dropped the charge. Four months later, the OPP served me with the notice to appear. After contacting the Federal police officer, and on recorded tape, he said that the witness contacted him and inquired about the arrest. The officer said that the charges were dropped because it was not their jurisdiction. The police officer said that the witness contacted the OPP to pursue the charge....the policer officer also contradicted himself saying that their Head Office attorney traversed the file over to OPP. The OPP served the notice to appear. I'm waiting on disclosure.
Just out of curiosity, how did you become aware of the fact that a person with "power" status was the one who made the complaint? Did the police tell you?
Answer: The Federal police told me...the witness is the local fire chief.
They arrested me for impaired. After three hours in detention, three breath tests, which resulted in zero alcohol results after their threats to admit guilt or they would charge me with refusing to take the test, they finally let me go (my kids had the pleasure of watching me be arrested).
The Federal police charged me with careless driving. After my wife spoke with the arresting officer, telling him she would make him appear as a joke in court, two days later they called me and dropped the charge. Four months later, the OPP served me with the notice to appear. After contacting the Federal police officer, and on recorded tape, he said that the witness contacted him and inquired about the arrest. The officer said that the charges were dropped because it was not their jurisdiction. The police officer said that the witness contacted the OPP to pursue the charge....the policer officer also contradicted himself saying that their Head Office attorney traversed the file over to OPP.
The OPP served the notice to appear. I'm waiting on disclosure.
I was thinking the same thing... Where in Ontario did this offence occur? The only other thing I could think of as far as "federal police" would be the Park Wardens at Thousand Islands National Park or Point Pelee National Park, for example... or maybe Fisheries/Wildlife... Considering all that's happened, get a lawyer ASAP, if you haven't already.
hwybear wrote:
Federal Police? (RCMP,MP,CBSA)
I was thinking the same thing... Where in Ontario did this offence occur? The only other thing I could think of as far as "federal police" would be the Park Wardens at Thousand Islands National Park or Point Pelee National Park, for example... or maybe Fisheries/Wildlife...
Considering all that's happened, get a lawyer ASAP, if you haven't already.
Standard questions Were you alone in the car when the incident happened? If not, who else was there. How fast were you going after you passed the fire chief? What do you mean by "aggresively chasing me"? He can be charged under 172 for "Racing". See end of post. Can you recall clearly what had happened that day? From "I started to overtake the vehicle in question" part. As a side note: Do not just wait for disclosure. You have to ask for it! ONTARIO REGULATION 455/07
Standard questions
Were you alone in the car when the incident happened? If not, who else was there.
How fast were you going after you passed the fire chief?
What do you mean by "aggresively chasing me"? He can be charged under 172 for "Racing". See end of post.
Can you recall clearly what had happened that day? From "I started to overtake the vehicle in question" part.
As a side note: Do not just wait for disclosure. You have to ask for it!
ONTARIO REGULATION 455/07
Definition, "race" and "contest"
2. (1) For the purposes of section 172 of the Act, "race" and "contest" include any activity where one or more persons engage in any of the following driving behaviours:
1. Driving two or more motor vehicles at a rate of speed that is a marked departure from the lawful rate of speed and in a manner that indicates the drivers of the motor vehicles are engaged in a competition.
2. Driving a motor vehicle in a manner that indicates an intention to chase another motor vehicle.
3. Driving a motor vehicle without due care and attention, without reasonable consideration for other persons using the highway or in a manner that may endanger any person by,
i. driving a motor vehicle at a rate of speed that is a marked departure from the lawful rate of speed,
ii. outdistancing or attempting to outdistance one or more other motor vehicles while driving at a rate of speed that is a marked departure from the lawful rate of speed, or
iii. repeatedly changing lanes in close proximity to other vehicles so as to advance through the ordinary flow of traffic while driving at a rate of speed that is a marked departure from the lawful rate of speed. O. Reg. 455/07, s. 2 (1).
(2) In this section,
"marked departure from the lawful rate of speed" means a rate of speed that may limit the ability of a driver of a motor vehicle to prudently adjust to changing circumstances on the highway. O. Reg. 455/07, s. 2 (2).
"The more laws, the less justice" - Marcus Tullius Cicero
"The hardest thing to explain is the obvious"
Thanks for all the support; when I came home, my wife immediately instructed me to document the entire day, which I did. So I have my own written statement here at home. My wife and I also made a compliant to the Military's chief for his conduct that day...they encouraged us to formalize a complaint against him to the commissionaire. We just wanted the money back which cost us to get the vehicle out of the pound. They had the tow truck waiting for me...as soon as they found me. When the chief aggressively pursued me, he was tail gating me. I found it bizarre that he was going below the post speed rate to this point of aggression.
Thanks for all the support; when I came home, my wife immediately instructed me to document the entire day, which I did. So I have my own written statement here at home. My wife and I also made a compliant to the Military's chief for his conduct that day...they encouraged us to formalize a complaint against him to the commissionaire. We just wanted the money back which cost us to get the vehicle out of the pound. They had the tow truck waiting for me...as soon as they found me.
When the chief aggressively pursued me, he was tail gating me. I found it bizarre that he was going below the post speed rate to this point of aggression.
Mail in you request for disclosure. Let us see what they have against you. As to filing a complaint... Not sure where you would send it too, but that is a definite "should do". Why don't you make a call to the OPP to charge the Fire Chief with "Follow too Close"? He had no qualms about ratting you in, even though his case had no merit.
Mail in you request for disclosure. Let us see what they have against you.
As to filing a complaint... Not sure where you would send it too, but that is a definite "should do".
Why don't you make a call to the OPP to charge the Fire Chief with "Follow too Close"? He had no qualms about ratting you in, even though his case had no merit.
"The more laws, the less justice" - Marcus Tullius Cicero
"The hardest thing to explain is the obvious"
I've requested disclosure. I'll post the results. As soon as I receive the name of the person chasing me, I will phone the opp and make the complaint. If they fail to do anything, I will attend the justice of the peace and get a formal charge that way.
I've requested disclosure. I'll post the results. As soon as I receive the name of the person chasing me, I will phone the opp and make the complaint. If they fail to do anything, I will attend the justice of the peace and get a formal charge that way.
The charge was dropped! After readying the disclosure - very apparent that the fire chief worked closely with the police to construct his statement....Crown must have also seen the numerous flaws.
The charge was dropped!
After readying the disclosure - very apparent that the fire chief worked closely with the police to construct his statement....Crown must have also seen the numerous flaws.
I have received a $450 ticket for parking in a handicap loading zone. I did not see the sign and the pavement was not marked. I have lived in Toronto for 15 years and this is the first ticket of any kind I have received. My last ticket, in a different city, was over 20 years ago. I am always very careful about parking and traffic regulations.
I cannot afford to pay $450. I do not make a lot of…
Petition to change HTA 136 (1)(A)Failure to Stop at Stop Sign
Hello, it does not seem right that not coming to a complete stop, that your wheels do not stop turning or rolling stop carries the same penalty as not stopping at all at a stop sign . I think it's time this laws challenged and quashed. I wondered how to go both that? Can we start a website that we can sign a petition to have this law…
My 78 year old Mother got a ticket at 8am on March 31/09 as the morning sun was in her eyes and she (as well, many others), didnt see the sign ahead-"No straight throughway (between 7-9am Mon to Fri". (All english Sign might I add) at Dundas & Shaw. (**Proceed Contrary Sign Intersection -HTA-144(9).
4 months prior to her court date in November, I requested disclosure 3 times prior to her…
Reference is made in the HTA to Stop Signs at Railway Crossings (passive crossings):
HTA, 163 (2)
O Reg 615 (7)
However I cannot find specific regulation detailing how a railway crossing controlled by a stop sign must be configured.
The Ontario Traffic Manual, Book 11 - Markings and Delineation under section "3.9 Reserved Facility Markings - Railways" (p99) speaks to the needs for marking, but is…
I got a parking ticket on Halloween around 9pm for parking in front of a cross walk in a residential street. There's no sign or anything that says you can't park there.
You know the crosswalk/walkways in residential streets that are fenced on both sides and that simply lead you to another street on the other side is what I'm talking about.
The parking ticket officer must have seen me walk in…
So I was on my way home, going a solid 120 as usual in the fast lane. Someone decides to cut me off going less than 100. I do a quick double lane change and speed up unknowingly hitting apparently 150. After speeding for a mere 20 seconds, I am pulled over. Cop says he reduced the ticket to 49 over, I was charged $359 for that. Of course, my insurance isn't in my car... I had to take it out…
Hi, new at this and could use all the help and guidance..
My brother just got in an accident where he swerved to avoid hitting a squirrel and got in an accident. Luckily, no one was hurt as he did not hit another party so it was just our car (old car and it will be a write off). The cop issued a careless driving ticket - notice of appearance. I read a similiar thread about this but not sure if it…
There is some construction going on for the last three months and hence, the northbound right lane on airport road at queen street which exits is closed due to construction and they have put barriers. they have put the right turn sign on the adjacent lane in the black background. Also the right lane north of Queen Street at Airport road is closed and they have an arrow sign there which indicates…
I keep being told that if you are found to be driving with bare feet, you could be fined etc... but nowhere can I find the actual rule anyway. Does anyone know if this is truly illegal - or perhaps used to be? In summer, sandals being what they are, its much safer, in my opinion to kick them off and drive with bare feet.... but then I hate anything on my feet in hot weather!
I got pulled over yesterday on the Sir John A. Macdonald Parkway in Ottawa for going 106 km/h in a 60 zone. It was around noon, the weather was good and I was the only car on the road. He was hiding around a corner and was just stopped in the right lane (there are no shoulders on this road). I was alone in my car and neither of us said much, he didnt reduce my fine and gave me a ticket of a set…
I recently received a ticket from a military policeman on a military base in Ontario. Therefore, I was charged under the "Government Property Traffic Regulations" (GPTR), section 9. I know that some may say, why are you posting on a website for the HTA? Well, in Ontario, the military uses the Provincial Offences Act/Ontario Court of Justice for traffic tickets issued on a military base, i.e.…
For my first ever post, I'm going to ask for your own story dealing with a s.172 charge.
There is a lot of teeth grinding online about the street racing laws but few hands-on accounts from people who have been there and done that. I saw many posts from people seeking advice but few mention the actual outcome.
With about 1/3 conviction rate, there should be many success stories around. Even if you we…
... two cars pulled over, we (my wife and 7 month old boy) were passing a truck in the passing lane, first car passed me and I pulled out behind him. Crested a hill while on a curve, pass the truck and move back into the driving lane. Police officer shows up behind and pulls us both over. Gave me a ticket saying I was following the car in front doing 124km/hr.
We all know that numerous police agencies around Ontario (and world for that matter) set up speed traps in inconspicuous locations to catch motorists who are speeding.
If you know of any speed traps that are in regular use please post them here for all to know and avoid speeding fines.
Format: Town, Location, Direction, known days of operation (if known).
Sorry if this has been covered, but I searched and didn't find anything.
Just thought I'd share my recent experience.
Last Friday I was driving myself and my wife home from a nice dinner date in Markham/Richmond Hill north of T-DOT, and I had two (what looked like) ETF officers "tail" me home and park on my driveway.
I had been driving southbound and reached a red light stopped in the right…
I have my trial date coming up next week. I got a ticket in North Bay, ON for driving 139km/h on a 90km/h. He was using a Genesis II directional radar. Tested it before and after the stop according to the notes. In his notes, he mentions the speeds that were displayed on the radar which were 140, 141, and 139. In his notes, he also mentions that the color of my car was blue when it is…
I paid my fines for 2 tickets; fail to provide ownership and fail to provide insurence. I now know i should have checked not guilty and mailed them in.
(the papers were in the car. I was looking for them but was distracted by a badgering 2nd officer who was attempting to identify my passenger. I found them when i stopped for coffee later.)
Now that you actually opened this topic and I have your attention
Please read all items below 1 to 8
1) If YOU start a THREAD/DISCUSSION for an incident - KEEP on ONE THREAD, even for no activity for several months or even just to keep updates for court steps, stay on one thread
HOW DO I FIND MY POST? >> TOP right of page is the following: view unread posts / view new posts / view…
I plan to request disclosure through registered mail or fax. I've tried requesting in person but got rejected because they told me I did not provide sufficient information on my Disclosure Request letter.
My question is, do they really need the officer's name and division when I provided them with the Offence Number, Offence Date, Charge, Court Date, and Location? Also they said they do…
Been charged with Careless Driving in a residential area.
1. The Officer has a Witness statement. If the Witness does not appear at Trail, can that statement be introduced at Trial by the Crown and used against me.?
2. The Address "Number" (the Street is correct) on the infraction does not remotely exist, is an empty field. Does this matter?
Is there a requirement for commercial vehicles to be maintained only by licensed mechanics (e.g., oil changes, tire rotations)? I'm working with Habitat for Humanity and we are looking into a cargo van for the ReStore; I'm more than capable of doing maintenance but I'm not sure if it is legal because I am not a licensed mechanic.