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Ontario Highway Traffic Act

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Re: careless driving because pedestrian claims my car hit he
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PostPosted: Tue Dec 06, 2016 11:35 am 
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I would suspect that this complaint was made in the heat of the road-rage moment and now the witness doesn't want to be involved, using illness as an excuse. It may just go away at the next appearance.....

....but plan for the worst. Your paralegal needs to have some good cross skills.

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Re: careless driving because pedestrian claims my car hit he
PostPosted: Tue Dec 06, 2016 1:01 pm 
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argyll wrote:
I would suspect that this complaint was made in the heat of the road-rage moment and now the witness doesn't want to be involved, using illness as an excuse. It may just go away at the next appearance.....

....but plan for the worst. Your paralegal needs to have some good cross skills.


That's what I suspected as well but literally a week later after I made my statement to the detective at the police station. I received a letter from her lawyer saying they want to sue for personal injuries. Although I am not sure why her lawyer did not come on her behalf to say she was sick. Maybe her lawyer knew this is not going anywhere and he is wasting his time defending her because he offers one of those we win you money or you dont pay us kind of deal. So she probably got left hanging. But if that's not the case then I don't know why she hired a lawyer if she is not going to take this seriously. I mean if I was suing someones insurance in the hopes of getting 10s of thousands of dollars, you can cut my leg off and I would still be at the court trial LOL. Maybe she and the prosecutor thought I was just going to take a plea bargain. Prosecutor did seem very surprised and scared when I said I wanted to go to trial.

And yes my paralegal also said that at the next appearance if she does not show up it will most likely be thrown out but if the prosecutor is very anal they may ask for another adjournment.


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Re: careless driving because pedestrian claims my car hit he
PostPosted: Tue Dec 06, 2016 1:06 pm 
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Did you send the letter from her lawyer to your insurance company?

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Re: careless driving because pedestrian claims my car hit he
PostPosted: Tue Dec 06, 2016 1:09 pm 
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don't forget to "get" thoes 10k bills you probably need the following

* Corroborating witness's
* Doctors to confirm she is injured (enough to warrant that kind of a payout)
* Time of work (if your that badly injured)
* Doctors notes for pharmacutecals - pain killers etc
* Chiro proof of appointments
* Time of work for trial
* Lawyer

IF this is serious, then the above is NOT an issue, #

I went through something similar in the UK, was a victim in car accident, driver gave false details and could not be found, had NO one to sue, though no major injury
went around the houses for about 2.5 years, got what I call a "mercy" cheque for about $300 (pounds-sorry) from my works injury lawyers, I had 2 days off work
no medical. (back in the early 00's)

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Re: careless driving because pedestrian claims my car hit he
PostPosted: Tue Dec 06, 2016 1:12 pm 
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I think the days of getting mass payouts from insurance companies, for what I would call "a bump and roll" are over, they want good proof before they even payout.

I spoke to my insurance last year about coverage and we had a good conversation about liability, suing and accident damage payouts
very interesting

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* NO you cant touch your phone
* Speeding is speeding
* Challenge every ticket
* Impaired driving, you should be locked up UNDER the jail


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Re: careless driving because pedestrian claims my car hit he
PostPosted: Tue Dec 06, 2016 1:46 pm 
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jsherk wrote:
Did you send the letter from her lawyer to your insurance company?


yes I did. Why? is it bad if I sent it to my insurance company ?


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Re: careless driving because pedestrian claims my car hit he
PostPosted: Tue Dec 06, 2016 2:17 pm 
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No its not bad. I was going to tell you to make sure you did send it to your insurance if you had not.

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Re: careless driving because pedestrian claims my car hit he
PostPosted: Mon Jan 23, 2017 1:49 pm 
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Hi guys,

Hope people are still reading this. I just wanted to give an update. My second court date is in about 3 weeks and I wanted to get some last minute feedback. I am hoping she does not show up again or the detective. Here is a summary of the report and pedestrians statement. should i take a plea bargain if pedestrian does show up (something like drop the 2 failure to report and failure to remain at an accident and reduce the careless driving down to failure to yield to a pedestrian which is like a few hundred dollars with like 2 or 3 points) or should I take this all way to trial and go head to toe against the prosecutor and get all 3 charges dismissed?

Report summary
The defendant was operating his vehicle at approximately 1:30 pm he was east bound on sunrise avenue at the intersection of Victoria park attempting to make a right turn. It was at this time that the defendants vehicle struck the victim who was a pedestrian, crossing from south to north on sunrise avenue in the marked pedestrian cross area at the intersection. The victim stated that once she was struck she ended up on the hood of the vehicle, looking the defendant right in the eyes. The victim managed to get herself off the hood of the car and quickly took note of the suspects licence before he left the scene. The victim went to the hospital as a result of the collision. She stated that she had no broken bones but suffered soft tissue damage and suffers from pain in her hips, back and neck. The defendant was interviewed at traffic services and was charged accordingly under the highway traffic act.

Pedestrians statement
"I was crossing the pedestrian line exactly crossing sunrise going south to north and he was turning right going to victoria park south. I saw him. I saw the car stopped, the light way for me, I started to go. I never thought he would go. He started the car with velocity like he was in a rush. And then he hit me I banged the car a bunch of times and I saw his face when I was on the hood. He saw me and then as soon as I got a chance I got myself off the car and then he ran away, I saw people watching. I looked at the back of his car and tried to remember his license plate. He tried to run away fast."

Officers notes.
Spoke to complainant at residence
Released from the hospital without injury
Was too in shock to stay on the phone with the police
Saw the suspect
Report created

Any advice would be greatly appreciated


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Re: careless driving because pedestrian claims my car hit he
PostPosted: Mon Jan 23, 2017 2:20 pm 
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bobajob wrote:
I hear you, I can't go into details,but
I had a "meeting" with the police a few years back, they first didn't tell me they where the police, they rang me Friday afternoon and LEFT a fricckin voice mail on my cell.
They HAD known about this since the morning, (leaving it so I didnt have time to think)
They just came across as being "hi my name is Sally from, XYZ department..". then they made it out like it was just "come in for a meeting"
I was officially interviewed by the police in a locked room
(actually I wasn't even read my rights), BUT afterwards I WAS exonerated, despite no evidence against me and it was MY word against the accusation and ACTUALLY no charges where formally laid
The only "apology" I got at the time, was I'm sorry, but this does happen,very sorry to put you through this...

I WAS EXONERATED, but that doesn't help, as there is going to be shown some interaction with me and the police, in some record.
I SHOULD have asked more questions and GONE lawyered up, I am still pretty angry with my interaction and the deceit of the police.

I COULD have done jail time... it was that serious

and ... luckily I was an honest man and it worked out for me

If your honest, you'll get screwed, every time, don't assume EVERYONE has your best intentions at heart especially the law institution, even honest men have spent time in jail right ;)

What does your paralegal advise now ?


Just re-reading this thread and this post deserves some comment. Just because the police contacted you in the evening doesn't mean they had some nefarious tactic to give you no time to think. Maybe they were working on other stuff. They contacted you, you came in and gave your side of the story and, as a result, you weren't charged. Isn't that how it's supposed to go ? Had you lawyered up and said nothing then you would have been charged because the police would only have had one side of the story to go on. In this case speaking to the police helped you.

You say " luckily I was an honest man and it worked out for me. If your honest, you'll get screwed, every time". I think you just defeated your own argument.

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Re: careless driving because pedestrian claims my car hit he
PostPosted: Tue Jan 24, 2017 9:25 am 
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txs for the response., so as I said no details, this wasn't a Road traffic issue, but it WAS a serious criminal issue they where trying to charge me, which would have meant a jail term.
On the first call (telephone), they didnt even identify themselves AS police, they had ALSO used a family member to lie to me.
There was No evidence against me and TBH I had no proof that I hadnt done what they had suspected me of doing, they only had my word
and I guess there questioning and my body language I guess.

Even after we left, I didnt get the full details, but I soon did and I was pissed.

In my case, they where trying there best to deceive, under play things and had a family member lie to me, which even today 2 years later has totally messed up relationship dynamics,

Had they said, hi this is PC xyz, we need you to come down because of a complaint, that would have been diferent.

No, I should have gone lawyered up, do you know that when they where questioning me they DID NOT EVEN caution me.

I was very close to having my liberty removed, losing my family and having a life long criminal record, and probably being deported.

There is a big chunk of info I have not put here, primarily because this is the internet ;)

I'm beginning to understand more and more jsherks mantra of remaining silent.

BUT that said thanks for your comments Argyl




argyll wrote:
bobajob wrote:
I hear you, I can't go into details,but
What does your paralegal advise now ?


Just re-reading this thread and this post deserves some comment. Just because the police contacted you in the evening doesn't mean they had some nefarious tactic to give you no time to think. Maybe they were working on other stuff. They contacted you, you came in and gave your side of the story and, as a result, you weren't charged. Isn't that how it's supposed to go ? Had you lawyered up and said nothing then you would have been charged because the police would only have had one side of the story to go on. In this case speaking to the police helped you.

You say " luckily I was an honest man and it worked out for me. If your honest, you'll get screwed, every time". I think you just defeated your own argument.

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* NO you cant touch your phone
* Speeding is speeding
* Challenge every ticket
* Impaired driving, you should be locked up UNDER the jail


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Re: careless driving because pedestrian claims my car hit he
PostPosted: Tue Jan 24, 2017 10:05 am 
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@dude

If the witness/pedestrian is not there, then I think they will have to withdraw all the charges. Lets hope that is what happens. Others may want to chime in as to whether you can still be charged with the Failing To Report and Failing To Remain even if the witness does not show up.

But if both her and the officer do show up, then you will be in trouble if have to fight all three charges...
For insurance purposes, I beleive that:
- Careless is a SERIOUS offence
- Failing To Remain is a SERIOUS offence
- Failing To Report is a MAJOR offence

Both the Careless charge AND the Failing To Remain charge are SERIOUS, which is the same as having two DUI's on your record. Those are the most serious ones that you want to get dropped or reduced. The Failing To Report is a MAJOR, which of course is not good to have on your record but would be better than a SERIOUS.

Every insurance company is different, but read this thread post37937.html to get an idea of Minor, Major and Serious offences.

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Re: careless driving because pedestrian claims my car hit he
PostPosted: Tue Jan 24, 2017 10:48 am 
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jsherk wrote:
@dude

If the witness/pedestrian is not there, then I think they will have to withdraw all the charges. Lets hope that is what happens. Others may want to chime in as to whether you can still be charged with the Failing To Report and Failing To Remain even if the witness does not show up.

But if both her and the officer do show up, then you will be in trouble if have to fight all three charges...
For insurance purposes, I beleive that:
- Careless is a SERIOUS offence
- Failing To Remain is a SERIOUS offence
- Failing To Report is a MAJOR offence

Both the Careless charge AND the Failing To Remain charge are SERIOUS, which is the same as having two DUI's on your record. Those are the most serious ones that you want to get dropped or reduced. The Failing To Report is a MAJOR, which of course is not good to have on your record but would be better than a SERIOUS.

Every insurance company is different, but read this thread post37937.html to get an idea of Minor, Major and Serious offences.



@Jsherk

I am well aware of the consequences and that any conviction on any of them can easily suspend my license and worst possible case i get jail time, which is definitely not going to happen based on a he said she said case and especially when there is no visual signs of injury. Second I do not want to plead guilty to something i didn't do so that is why i feel like my only option is to go straight to trial and fight the prosecutor. From what I am hearing from other sources it is almost impossible to convict someone of fail to report or remain at an accident unless it was a very obvious hit and run. I know that if property damage under 1000$ or 500 not to sure about the amount or if there are no injuries, then you do not need to report it. I once got into a slight accident where my car slightly rolled a little at less than 1 km/h and tapped the guy in front of me and he tried to play the oh my back hurts game. short story is that collision center and insurance both said you do not have to report it. So clearly there were no property damage since it is a pedestrian making the claim and second the report i shown above clearly states that she was released from the hospital with no injuries.


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Re: careless driving because pedestrian claims my car hit he
PostPosted: Tue Jan 24, 2017 11:03 am 
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If you are willing to challenge all the charges and take them all to trial, then go for it. If it was me, I would probably do the same thing.

My only warning is that if you are self-representing and you have no experience in court or you have not spent hours and hours learning about how the court works, you will most likely lose.

And even if you hired a paralegal or lawyer to represent you, finding one that is actually good in court and knows how fight the charges can be challenging. I am not sure I have ever seen a paralegal actually go to trial. Most of them come in, make a plea deal and are out of there in no time.

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Re: careless driving because pedestrian claims my car hit he
PostPosted: Tue Jan 24, 2017 11:11 am 
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I did hire a paralegal, there is no way I was going to go in and fight this alone. my paralegal pretty much kept stressing that neither party has sufficient evidence to prove your guilt or innocence. So it just comes down to who's story sounds more believable to the justice of the peace. Her also not showing up the first time because she claims she was "sick" 2 days prior to the trial without any specifics also raises doubt on her.


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Re: careless driving because pedestrian claims my car hit he
PostPosted: Tue Jan 24, 2017 11:26 am 
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Let us know what happens... very interested to hear the outcome.

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