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Ontario Highway Traffic Act

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Careless driving involving pedestrian
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 06, 2009 4:33 pm 
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Location: Hamilton
Hello All,
Yesterday I found your site and it looks pretty good. I'm looking for some more input about my ticket. I received advice from a policeman and one paralegal to plea guilty of improper left turn. What do you think? Here's unusual situation:
I'm going North at 4-way intersection with 2 lights (East & West) and 2 stop signs (North & South).

It's a confusing intersection. I looked ahead and I didn't see the pedestrian who is on a disabled motor-wheelchair going southbound.
Once I figured out that the lights (E/W) went red, I proceeded to turn left, but a car going Eastbound seemed to going fast and my eyes were focused on him to make sure he wasn't running a red light. ONce I determined that he was stopping I proceeded to go and bang!! I hit the pedestrian and to me it seemed he came from nowhere. He tipped over, but the police said he was fine, just damage to the motorwheelchair.

I'm going to meet with the Crown tomorrow to fight the careless ticket charge. Any advice will help. It's my first ticket. I'm pretty nervous.
thanks
MM

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PostPosted: Tue Jan 06, 2009 5:20 pm 
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Location: Stratford, Ontario
I just can't imagine how an intersection with lights AND stop signs could work!

If it were me, I'd take a plea bargain to Improper Left if it were offered. If no plea bargain were offered, I would request a trial and hope/expect that either the officer or the victim won't show up (the Crown would need both in court).

You could argue that the victim whipped out into the crosswalk when you had already commenced to make your left turn. Those scooters really boogy, much faster than a walking pedestrian.

You would need to request Disclosure to make sure the Crown doesn't have any other independent eye-witnesses up his sleeve.


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PostPosted: Tue Jan 06, 2009 6:51 pm 
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Bookm wrote:
I just can't imagine how an intersection with lights AND stop signs could work!.


finally we think alike.... :?: :?: :?: :?:

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Re: Careless driving involving pedestrian
PostPosted: Tue Jan 06, 2009 11:12 pm 
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Angels13 wrote:
Hello All,
Yesterday I found your site and it looks pretty good. I'm looking for some more input about my ticket. I received advice from a policeman and one paralegal to plea guilty of improper left turn. What do you think? Here's unusual situation:
I'm going North at 4-way intersection with 2 lights (East & West) and 2 stop signs (North & South).

It's a confusing intersection. I looked ahead and I didn't see the pedestrian who is on a disabled motor-wheelchair going southbound.
Once I figured out that the lights (E/W) went red, I proceeded to turn left, but a car going Eastbound seemed to going fast and my eyes were focused on him to make sure he wasn't running a red light. ONce I determined that he was stopping I proceeded to go and bang!! I hit the pedestrian and to me it seemed he came from nowhere. He tipped over, but the police said he was fine, just damage to the motorwheelchair.

I'm going to meet with the Crown tomorrow to fight the careless ticket charge. Any advice will help. It's my first ticket. I'm pretty nervous.
thanks
MM


Could you describe the light bit a bit better?

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Viper1

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PostPosted: Wed Jan 07, 2009 12:22 am 
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hwybear wrote:
finally we think alike....


:shock: :shock: :shock: :shock: :shock:

Okay now for the Careless Driving charge. I'm assuming that this is a First Attendance Meeting that you've got with the Crown. Careless driving not only has the fine, which albeit isn't the most expensive out there, but it carries 6 demerit points so you'll get a really nasty letter from MTO, and the biggest thing is that your insurance provider will probably drop you if you get convicted of it. It's a major insurance conviction and if they do keep you, they'll send your rates into the stratosphere. I agree fully with Bookm's advice, and that of the paralegal and the officer who advised you. If the Crown refuses to let you plead down to something less, get a trial date set and go from there.

Good luck.


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PostPosted: Wed Jan 07, 2009 9:48 am 
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Location: Stratford, Ontario
hwybear wrote:
Bookm wrote:
I just can't imagine how an intersection with lights AND stop signs could work!.


finally we think alike.... :?: :?: :?: :?:


Now if you would just agree, "speed'ING is saf'ER" :P


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Careless driving w/ pedestrian
PostPosted: Wed Jan 07, 2009 10:55 am 
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Location: Hamilton
To answer Viper1's question,
I'm going North to turn left (eastbound)....I stopped at the stop sign; I look ahead, look both ways, the lights running East & West goes red. I proceed to go slowly and but a car going eastbound looked like he was going to run the light but he stopped. My eye was focused at him before I actually made the final turn. I discerned it was safe to go and at that point I hit the pedestrian on motrwheelchr.

I hope that's clear.
Thank you to all the other responses (Bookm, hwybear, etc) for your support. Yes my 1st attendance meeting is today.

thanks!

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PostPosted: Wed Jan 07, 2009 11:00 am 
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Thank you, radar too.
:)

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PostPosted: Wed Jan 07, 2009 1:02 pm 
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hwybear wrote:
Bookm wrote:
I just can't imagine how an intersection with lights AND stop signs could work!.


finally we think alike.... :?: :?: :?: :?:


And the leafs win the cup........must be a cold day in HE.......

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Re: Careless driving w/ pedestrian
PostPosted: Wed Jan 07, 2009 5:39 pm 
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Angels13 wrote:
I'm going North to turn left (eastbound)....thanks!


That does not make sense.....if you are going north and go left, that is WEST. If you go RIGHT that would be EAST.

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PostPosted: Wed Jan 07, 2009 11:11 pm 
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angels13

I think your first language is other then English.

This is still a guess.

You turned left and knocked a wheelchair person over.

You have to honk so they can hear you coming.

This is corney but true.
Get a louder horn.

Cheers
Viper1

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PostPosted: Thu Jan 08, 2009 9:16 am 
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Original says that it is a "4-way" intersection. Would that mean that all directions are controlled by a stop sign.....plus an additional flashing red for (east/west) as it has more traffic?

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PostPosted: Fri Jan 09, 2009 3:58 pm 
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Posts: 959
Location: Guelph, Ontario
I think that here is an intersection with stop signs at North and South, and a pedestrian button-operated light to stop the traffic and cross the heavier traffic East-West street. The wheelchair pedestrian pushed the button, and whoever was driving on EW street, not used to seeing a red there, was confused and hesitated before stopping. This is not a 4-way stop.
My advice is to take the improper left-turn. You get 2 points instead of 6, and your insurance will most likely not even budge. You did, after all, hit a pedestrian. Careless, there is a chance of losing in court, then your insurance will go up probably to the tune of $100 per month.

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