Our website is made possible by displaying online advertisements to our visitors.
Please consider supporting us by disabling your ad blocker.

Ontario Highway Traffic Act

Discuss the Ontario Highway Traffic Act.


Post Your Traffic Ticket, and Get Help!


The Ontario Traffic Ticket Forum!


All times are UTC - 5 hours [ DST ]




Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 9 posts ] 
Check It Out
No unread posts New Set Fines Starting Sept 1st, 2015! Read and Learn Here.
  Print view

144 (9) No Right Turn - Had green, pedestrians held me up
Author Message
PostPosted: Wed Oct 26, 2011 11:29 pm 
Offline
Jr. Member

Joined: Wed Oct 26, 2011 11:19 pm
Posts: 61
Hey guys, wanted to know if anyone has had a similar situation, and if you have any advice:

I was travelling E/B on Dundas St and had a green light to turn S/B on Spadina Ave. There's a no right on red sign, I observed it. I initiated my maneuver, slowly pulling my car into position to make the turn. This intersection is super busy, and there was a group of pedestrians who were painfully slowly making their way across. I looked and saw my light had gone to amber, but there were still pedestrians in my path, although I was now well into the intersection and right S/B lane. I never looked to see if the light turned red as I was keeping my eye on the people [now jaywalking] I didn't want to run over. Anyway, made the turn and was shortly after pulled over. Cop says he's got me doing it on video, and gave me the ticket.

I'll be pleading not guilty and requesting a trial, as well as full disclosure [including the video].

Anyone here have similar cases? Driving in a city like Toronto can be tricky, and certain rules of the road apply [in my case, talking about getting into position when it comes to heavy pedestrian traffic]. Not sure what the word is on that.

Also wondering if anyone here has requested a disclosure with video and if it was provided and in what format etc.

Any other advice would be great too.

Thanks


Top
 Profile  
 
Re: 144 (9) No Right Turn - Had green, pedestrians held me u
PostPosted: Fri Oct 28, 2011 12:51 pm 
Offline
Jr. Member

Joined: Wed Oct 26, 2011 11:19 pm
Posts: 61
I took some time today to go over the Ontario Highway Traffic Act and found this portion:

Blocking intersection

145. (1) The council of a municipality may by by-law prohibit a driver or street car operator approaching, at an intersection, a traffic control signal showing a circular green or green arrow indication from entering the intersection unless traffic in front of him or her is moving in a manner that would reasonably lead him or her to believe he or she can clear the intersection before the signal indication changes to a circular red indication. R.S.O. 1990, c. H.8, s. 145 (1).

Idem

(2) A by-law passed under subsection (1) does not apply to a driver or street car operator who enters an intersection for the purpose of turning to the right or left into an intersecting highway and signals his or her intention to make the turn prior to entering the intersection. R.S.O. 1990, c. H.8, s. 145 (2).

I'm wonder if section two would specifically apply to my situation, as I had began my turn on a green light, with proper turn signal, and was well into my turn before the light went supposedly red [once again, due to pedestrians not abiding by the law]?

It sounds like a grey area that maybe I can use to argue my case?

Any advice would be great!


Top
 Profile  
 
Re: 144 (9) No Right Turn - Had green, pedestrians held me u
PostPosted: Fri Oct 28, 2011 1:59 pm 
Offline
High Authority

Joined: Tue Feb 01, 2011 9:49 pm
Posts: 2110
Location: Ontario
That subsection would only be applicable if you were charged under section 145, not 144.


Top
 Profile  
 
Re: 144 (9) No Right Turn - Had green, pedestrians held me u
PostPosted: Fri Oct 28, 2011 3:08 pm 
Offline
Jr. Member

Joined: Wed Oct 26, 2011 11:19 pm
Posts: 61
Stanton, thanks for replying. I was thinking of referring to section 145 to show that I did not have to stop at the marked stop line in order to initiate my turn on a green light [as I did]. And due to the circumstances, in my case a group of pedestrians blocking my view on the right. I had to cautiously enter my turn, well into the intersection, in order to see if my way was clear. And by then I would have been blocking traffic if I remained where I was. Not sure if this makes sense.

To update, I ended up going to an Ontario Court in the GTA and not the one listed on the ticket. The clerk hesitantly accepted my Notice of Intention to Appear because, as she put it, "It was not on yellow paper." She then accepted it, stamped it, and said it will be mailed to the Toronto court. Should I follow up if I don't receive my Notice of Trial in the mail?

Thanks again.


Top
 Profile  
 
Re: 144 (9) No Right Turn - Had green, pedestrians held me u
PostPosted: Sun Oct 30, 2011 5:32 pm 
Offline
Moderator
User avatar

Joined: Mon Sep 08, 2008 8:26 pm
Posts: 2881
Location: Toronto
If you were across the stop line and well into the intersection when the light was green, then you did not commit an offence. You'd have to testify to that fact, and be credible in your testimony. I can't say if it would work, but if you really didn't enter the intersection on red, you didn't break the law.

If the officer has it on video, then it should be open-and-shut. If you decide to fight the charge, you should indicate that the officer says he has video, and you will need a copy of the relevant video portion if it is going to be used in court.

_________________
* The above is NOT legal advice. By acting on anything I have said, you assume responsibility for any outcome and consequences. *
http://www.OntarioTicket.com OR http://www.OHTA.ca


Top
 Profile  
 
Re: 144 (9) No Right Turn - Had green, pedestrians held me u
PostPosted: Mon Oct 31, 2011 3:49 pm 
Offline
Jr. Member

Joined: Wed Oct 26, 2011 11:19 pm
Posts: 61
Radar,

Thanks for replying. You've outlined my position on it. And I will most definitely be asking for disclosure of the video for trial [since the officer made such a point about it]. I'm 100% confident in my having initiated the turn on a green, so hopefully I can get access to the video and argue my case well.

Thanks again for the reply.


Top
 Profile  
 
Re: 144 (9) No Right Turn - Had green, pedestrians held me u
PostPosted: Mon Nov 14, 2011 7:35 pm 
Offline
Moderator
User avatar

Joined: Mon Sep 08, 2008 8:26 pm
Posts: 2881
Location: Toronto
When you get disclosure, post the results here (editing out personal information) and we'll see what we can do to help you put your case together.

_________________
* The above is NOT legal advice. By acting on anything I have said, you assume responsibility for any outcome and consequences. *
http://www.OntarioTicket.com OR http://www.OHTA.ca


Top
 Profile  
 
Re: 144 (9) No Right Turn - Had green, pedestrians held me u
PostPosted: Thu Mar 08, 2012 7:22 pm 
Offline
Jr. Member

Joined: Wed Oct 26, 2011 11:19 pm
Posts: 61
Just an update on my charges [I forgot to mention a CAIA 3(1)] with some good news:

I received a Notice of Trial in late December, with a court date set for early March. Over the ensuing months I sent three Disclosure Requests [which I wrote up on my own based on the TicketCombat example]. I did not hear anything from the Prosecutor's office, and arrived early on my scheduled court date with copies of all of Disclosure Requests prepared to face opposition from the Crown to my non-disclosure arguments. I checked in with the Prosecutor, and when she asked me what I'm hoping to get, I told her that all I wanted was Disclosure :). She asked when I first requested it and I told her that it was in late December of last year [I sent a fax out within three days of getting the Notice of Trial]. She noted this and in I went and sat down for a comfy hour before being called up [those courtrooms are really hot].

The Prosecutor, noting two Disclosure Requests dating back to Dec, was approached by the Constable, who mentioned something about receiving the requests only a few days prior. They whispered a bit, and the Prosecutor then withdrew the charges. Just like that. I thanked the Justice, the Prosecutor and the Constable and ran off into the sunset [not exactly].

OBSERVATIONS:

1. A lot of people, about 85%, plead guilty to a lesser charge. Only Paralegals ever mentioned Disclosure issues, and I doubt any civilians on that day were even aware of it. About 50% of Paralegals also plead to a lesser charge. In other words, someone just blew $250.

2. It seems that sending in Disclosure Requests to Old City Hall by registered mail isn't reliable. I was told by a legal advisor that registered mail is usually signed by whomever at the Court House and might not make it to the Prosecutor. Since this was the case with me, I would advise on not spending the money. Fax it in [both fax requests were acknowledged by the Crown] or bring it in person.

3. Adjournments were granted for Disclosure issues only when only one Disclosure Request was made, the Prosecutor withdrew all charges for Disclosure issues where more than one Request was made. I believe this is due to possible Charter motions [section 7, 11d and potentially 11b]. Just speculating though. It worked in my favour, thus no complaints.

4. THE MAJORITY OF PEOPLE REPRESENTING THEMSELVES are unfamiliar with the process. Use it to your advantage. A Prosecutor is less willing to battle it out with someone who knows their rights, the Prosecutors' responsibilities, and how to file a Charter Motion. This all considering the severity of the charge, of course, and whether or not the cards play in your favour prior to the trial [ie Disclosure issues].

Thank you to all of the contributors on this site who have guided me along on my first journey of dealing with traffic court. You guys offer a wealth of knowledge on here and have provided me with a concise starting point when it came to educating myself about the legal process in Ontario's POA courts. Essentially, if you are reading this as I would have months ago, your best bet is to start familiarizing yourself with the legal process, your rights, and case law. There's a wealth of information on this forum just a search query away. Good luck and have fun!


Top
 Profile  
 
Re: 144 (9) No Right Turn - Had green, pedestrians held me u
PostPosted: Thu Mar 08, 2012 10:13 pm 
Offline
Moderator
User avatar

Joined: Mon Sep 08, 2008 8:26 pm
Posts: 2881
Location: Toronto
Congratulations. Nice! And thank you for posting the follow-up.

_________________
* The above is NOT legal advice. By acting on anything I have said, you assume responsibility for any outcome and consequences. *
http://www.OntarioTicket.com OR http://www.OHTA.ca


Top
 Profile  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 9 posts ] 

All times are UTC - 5 hours [ DST ]


Related topics
 Topics   Author   Replies   Views   Last post 
There are no new unread posts for this topic. Proceed before green. HTA 144 (18)

jetmech727

13

1813

Tue Apr 08, 2008 3:52 pm

jetmech727 View the latest post

There are no new unread posts for this topic. 144(18) - proceed before green - bicycle

ndrw

6

780

Mon Jun 08, 2009 7:39 pm

Reflections View the latest post

There are no new unread posts for this topic. Red Light-Proceed before green HTA 144(18)

che1972

3

1380

Mon Apr 05, 2010 3:07 pm

Radar Identified View the latest post

There are no new unread posts for this topic. Red Light-Proceed before green HTA 144(18)

bual

3

2929

Fri Jun 11, 2010 1:57 pm

bual View the latest post

There are no new unread posts for this topic. HTA 144(12) Green light failed to proceed

tzj

1

1773

Wed Nov 24, 2010 4:59 pm

OPS Copper View the latest post

There are no new unread posts for this topic. HTA 144(12) - Green Light - Fail to Proceed as Directed

paradigm

4

6151

Thu Mar 11, 2010 9:01 pm

paradigm View the latest post

There are no new unread posts for this topic. No right turn on red except on green arrow

nat

3

994

Sun Dec 13, 2009 6:48 pm

Squishy View the latest post

There are no new unread posts for this topic. Charged for Right Turn on Green Light

solidbs

3

1579

Thu Jan 05, 2012 2:44 pm

solidbs View the latest post

There are no new unread posts for this topic. U-turn at advanced green collision

Jeffrox10

1

1016

Sun Oct 28, 2012 1:15 pm

Radar Identified View the latest post

There are no new unread posts for this topic. Turn right on red against green arrow indication

[ Go to pageGo to page: 1, 2 ]

Squishy

21

8141

Mon May 04, 2009 12:37 am

Radar Identified View the latest post

There are no new unread posts for this topic. Turn - not in safety. Advanced Green light. Collision.

left-turn-larry

3

2514

Sat Jun 02, 2012 12:12 pm

gammj View the latest post

There are no new unread posts for this topic. Question re: Right turn on red with green left arrow

waddya_know

5

533

Thu Mar 10, 2016 5:35 pm

waddya_know View the latest post

 


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  
cron
Web Development & Search Engine Optimization
Home | Court Listings | Ontario Traffic Ticket

Copyright 2007 - 2017 © Microtekblue Inc. Web Development & Search Engine Optimization Service. We Support phpBB All Rights Reserved.