Fines - Laser Detectors & Laser Jammers

Does anyone have some info on the fines for these?

I hear a radar detector i 170 $ + 3 demerit points.

I have no idea for a laser jamming device? I Heard rumors it was 5 points and no idea on the fine.

If this officer pulled you over and found a detector and a laser jammer would it be double the fine or how would an officer deal with this?

I think that having either device would get you 3 points. Nothing says about the type of the device you have, only "soeed measurement warning device".

Mo logic tell me that if you have both a radar detector and a laser jammer, then the officer might write you 2 tickets, one for each device...

Fines are $100 - $1000, plus court fees. Bear might have experience writing those though.

Any SMWD(jammer or detector) is $170 plus 3 points.

Thanks bear if a driver had a laser jammer and a radar detector would you take both and write one ticket or write one for each?

And that would be a total of 6 points and 2 x 175 $ for first time?

One ticket for each device. It would actually then only be 3 demerit points. When tickets with points are wrote at the SAME DATE and SAME TIME the infraction with the highest points is used, no demerit points are assessed for the second or third offence.

Thanks for clarification bear.

So for example you pull someone over for stunt driving "50 over" and this guy was also weaving in and out of lanes like crazy so you might give him careless driving.

So he would get both fines his insurer would see both fines but he would lose 6 points because stunt has 5 but since careless has 6 they take the points of the highest charge at that time?

they both carry 6 points

Bear & I have been through this topic on another site, ages ago, but I recall arguing the fact that the HTA makes a vehicle search legal (with reasonable suspicion) but the police had no right to search "the person" though. In one case, the person never admitted to, nor denied, that he had a radar detector in his pocket. The officer arrested him for obstruction of justice and conducted a search, producing the RD and laying the charge. The judge stated that the defendant was not legally bound to assist the officer in his investigation, so there was no obstruction and all charges were dropped (and RD returned) due to improper search.

Now, if memory serves me, I think it was Bear that stated there was a judge in Guelph who has reversed the other judges opinion and concluded that a personal search is acceptable based on suspicion of an RD alone. Not sure how DEEP they can search though!! LMAO (oh, I did NOT just say that, LOL).

Just b/c one can not find a SMWD on a search does not mean that a ticket can not be issued.

- way easier just to listen to the CB, truckers know where the bears are!

Just b/c one can not find a SMWD on a search does not mean that a ticket can not be issued.

Tickets without evidence.....sounds good to me....We can call it Section 172.2

guilt by shifty eyes...... thats a stretch and you know it 'bear

Actually http://www.wheels.ca/article/167046

We have no evidence..... Pretty sure we all could write to Jim and he could put together a nice Saturday article.....

Reflections i totally agree.

Your telling me an officer would give you a 100-1000 $ fine and 3 demerit points on suspicion and no evidence LOL!

How can you do that. What if your spectre doesnt detect it.

Does that make driving a nice vehicle and not speeding automatically suspicion of having a SMWD???

What is that. So if you pull over a guy in his late 20's early 30's and he has a nice fast car and is driving the speed limit this is suspicion he has a radar detector? Then if he doesn't comply to a search your gonna issue him a ticket?

Is shifty eyes or being shy now count to? So if your afraid and shy of the officer this is going to be having a SMWD?

Come on tickets with no evidence!!!!

Atleast with 172 they use laser or radar before they steal your vehicle and thats before your day in court!

But fining someone for having a SMWD with no evidence!!!!

CB Radio is okay..... Infact you can even hear the cops talking if you find the right channels.

Where hwybear is though that is way more common the OPP there are all over the 401 not the same here.

Oh wait so a trucker with a CB radio is that now also a SMWD? It could be if you hear the cops on it.

So now they can ticket them all to?

Reflections i totally agree.

Your telling me an officer would give you a 100-1000 $ fine and 3 demerit points on suspicion and no evidence LOL!

How can you do that. What if your spectre doesnt detect it.

Does that make driving a nice vehicle and not speeding automatically suspicion of having a SMWD???

What is that. So if you pull over a guy in his late 20's early 30's and he has a nice fast car and is driving the speed limit this is suspicion he has a radar detector? Then if he doesn't comply to a search your gonna issue him a ticket?

Is shifty eyes or being shy now count to? So if your afraid and shy of the officer this is going to be having a SMWD?

Come on tickets with no evidence!!!!

Atleast with 172 they use laser or radar before they steal your vehicle and thats before your day in court!

But fining someone for having a SMWD with no evidence!!!!

CB Radio is okay..... Infact you can even hear the cops talking if you find the right channels.

Where hwybear is though that is way more common the OPP there are all over the 401 not the same here.

Oh wait so a trucker with a CB radio is that now also a SMWD? It could be if you hear the cops on it.

So now they can ticket them all to?

Fellow knuckle heads

No where did I say NO evidence.

and that "wheels link" there is no applicable charge....quit going off base *sheesh*

There have been many murder convictions without the actual "knife/gun" being located with all the evidence to support the charge. So back to my original, do not need to find the SMWD to support the charge and there is lots of evidence to be had.

(ie: I stopped behind a coworker, walked up to one car with the officer, it was at night, looked as he was talking to the driver and told the officer the vehicle had a SMWD sure enough there was one hidden)

BTW...a CB does not pickup radar/lidar signals nor can it interfere with the radar/lidar so therefore it does not meet the definition of a a SMWD.

Ya, when I lost mine (many years ago), the OPP officer just kept pushing buttons on my dash until he came across the correct one! He'd turned his radar on before the search, so it started screaming like it was on fire or something, lol.

He didn't bother looking for the main unit, just gave me the ticket and told me to turn it in to him at the station within a week. I told him I would turn it in. He trusted that I would... and I did. That's how things worked in the 80's. No insurance increase, no problem. Today?.. not sure how it would go down. Would probably lose my left arm to the insurance man.. (and my 1st born)

hwybear wrote:

There have been many murder convictions without the actual "knife/gun" being located with all the evidence to support the charge. So back to my original, do not need to find the SMWD to support the charge and there is lots of evidence to be had.

(ie: I stopped behind a coworker, walked up to one car with the officer, it was at night, looked as he was talking to the driver and told the officer the vehicle had a SMWD sure enough there was one hidden)

So you found one whether by Spectre or using the "My Eyes" unit...... either would be evidence.......

Reflections wrote:

hwybear wrote:

There have been many murder convictions without the actual "knife/gun" being located with all the evidence to support the charge. So back to my original, do not need to find the SMWD to support the charge and there is lots of evidence to be had.

(ie: I stopped behind a coworker, walked up to one car with the officer, it was at night, looked as he was talking to the driver and told the officer the vehicle had a SMWD sure enough there was one hidden)

So you found one whether by Spectre or using the "My Eyes" unit...... either would be evidence.......

yes. Plus I have the advantage of 9yrs of traffic and over 1800 seizures, which I can testify to for my own evidenceand common things associated with SMWD.

So you have evidence just not the smoking gun........That's different

Comparing a murder investigation to having a SMWD 2 different things.

Would you charge someone with robbing a store and they have enone of the evidence. How can you prove based on that.

Your telling me that you can just suspect someone to have a radar detector is good enough for a fine without finding it i dont think so?

So if you pull me over and i am a shy person naturally and the officer thinks i am trying to hide something this is suspicion of having a SMWD?

The HTA does not specify what a SMWD device means. It says a "speed measuring warning device."

So if i had a CB radio and was listening the cops isn't that radio now a speed measuring warning device?

It is a device warning me of speed traps is it not?

I mean come on the implications of what you said are off the wall.

Imagine charging someone with trafficking drugs and they have no drugs... You would think you need to catch them (evidence) or find drugs on the property (warrant) or something.

Otherwise police could charge anyone they want. They could convict you of murder just because of the color of your skin.

This is so wrong.

Would you charge someone with cashing a fraudulent check when they re is no record of this ever happening on their bank records?I think not.

Imagine if your detachment decided to fire you for not following the rules or duties of your job but they had no proof. You would not be happy.

Sure suspicion of having a radar detector when your Spectre goes off. Thats evidence. Seeing something suspicious on the window.

Bat an aware driver who brakes under an over pass? Is he now under suspicion of having one? So if you can't find it you can charge him???

This means you can pull over anyone on the road for suspicion of having one. This is bazaar.

So what if you can't see it and can't find it and can't detect it with a spectre or VG-2???

They do have ones like this. What would you do then. Im sorry but convicting someone with no proof is not right.

If you can see it, find it, or detect it by all means give them the fine.

But if you don't see one, can't find one, can't detect one. Then how can you fine someone for it and have that on your conscious that you have no proof what so ever that he even had one in the first place.

I am guessing the argument is someone will be speeding a mile a minute then slow down immediately.

So what is to say this driver though he saw some debry on the road, was just passing some people, trying to get away from an aggressive driver? I mean come on with no proof that is ridiculous.

Murder and radar detectors are not the same thing. Murder is an act, where as a SMWD is a device, without the device giving a charge or suspecting of it is insane.

Even with murder you have to proof. If a cop sees a guy near the murder victim and he has shifty eyes he is not a murder. Even if they can't get the weapon then hey need some proof this was done forensic science, witnesses, timing events, etc.

tdrive2 - I'll give you the benefit of the doubt that you must have just finished working 16hrs, and was up prior to work for 2hrs......b/c none of that reflects the posts prior

Should read the posts above where it is well explained and where Reflections understands

Here is that so ever elusive definition that you could not find:

"speed measuring warning device" means any device or equipment designed or intended for use in a motor vehicle to warn the driver of the presence of speed measuring equipment in the vicinity and includes any device or equipment designed or intended for use in a motor vehicle to interfere with the effective operation of speed measuring equipment

BTW...there is not one SMWD that is undetectable.

And how are we defining "detectable."

Sure any SMWD or radar detector is detectable. But this gets into a discussion between Laser Jammers vs Radar Detectors.

And if you meant detectable as in you could see it sure. If you can see it that is detecable.

If you mean detectable such as you detecting it with your spectre okay. But no there is some that can not be detected with this.

Beltronics STi / STi-R, Escort Passport 9500.

Those are not detectable by the spectre unless the OPP have some kind o new magical devise or there is a newer spectre.

I was under the impression the Spectre 4 & 5 could not detect the STi models or the escort.

Did you mean detectable as in "being able to see it in the window, license plate, etc" Or as in you not being able to get a reading with Lidar cause someone is jamming your gun?

Sure those are detectable. I am sure many do this when using laser Jammers.

But there is some RD's that the Spectre RDD can not detect, even at ridicoulosy close range like less than 5 feet there is videos on youtube of people trying it out they are easy to find.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gm0iDZ4Yz5A

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pl27vsc1FZo

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hLP6jHwrm6Q

This is an extreme example where the STi is less than a foot and it picked it up.....

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cXM0G2bM ... re=related

Now bear i believe you know a fair bit about this.

How recent is the spectre RDD 4+.

I did hear that this one can pick up the STi Driver and the so called "stealth models". Is this true? Sorry i have not read up on this stuff in a while.

See here is another video with a guy testing spectre 4 vs STi Driver.

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RAYmbd9bLoE[/youtube]

In this one he can not detect it.

These videos confuse me.

So is it the Spectre 4+ now that can get all them?

tdrive2 wrote:

See here is another video with a guy testing spectre 4 vs STi Driver.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RAYmbd9bLoE&NR=1

In this one he can not detect it.

These videos confuse me.

So is it the Spectre 4+ now that can get all them?

What 'Bear is refering to is that just b/c the spectre cannot detect the devices does not mean that the officer cannot make you demonstrate that you have one.

Let's say that officer Barney Fife

is sitting under a bridge and that you cannot see him. You drive past him and he toggles his radar on and off again. At the same point in time you slam the brakes. The officer would have plenty of physical evidence that your vehicle has a SMWD somewhere inside.

Now if you want to play difficult and hide the device, the officer still has every reasonable right to rip apart your car to find it. If the device is of an intracate installation it's off to the impound yard with your vehicle.....

Detection is more then electronic.. The officer could see the mount points for the device, suction cups, velcro...etc. You would still be screwed. And yes the devices you have listed have stealth capabilities but you can still get caught.

All those videos are "construed" on how you want the results......similiar to stats of whatever nature (ie who wants them and for what reason).

First the RDD has to be operating properly to start with. You have to have an incoming signal from a detector, all I saw was outgoing detector signals (away from a Spectre). Another RDD was not turned on, but plugged in to activate, has this destroyed the internal components to a weakness that it does not work properly?

The Spectre does detect the "elusive ones"....now I do not know the percentage either.....how many detectors are out there? how was the Spectre positioned at the time? Did I interpret the Spectre properly or disregard it's message as false, was I in position to turn around and catch up to the vehicle.....so many variables involved it is hard to say.

Well bear now i heard when you get a hit the best idea is just to turn off the detector

Beep, beep, beep, beeeeeeeeeeeeeppppppppppppppppppp

Ah now its time to unplug it, remove the suction cups, turn off anything else, and put it away!

Sorry my bad it seems the Escort 9500 is now detecable by the Spectre IV+ RDD.

Although STi Driver seems to be good still.

tdrive2 wrote:

Well bear now i heard when you get a hit the best idea is just to turn off the detector .

But some of us hardcore traffic people won't give you a chance......sitting and sitting and at that car coming....wait for it....wait for it..... I/O BINGO too late!

Pfftt... radar detector. Who needs one? Just keep a good lookout and 99.5% of the time you'll see the police before they even think about aiming a radar or lidar at you. I've found that eyesight works better than radar detectors anyway.

But what about them lidars? They seem to work fine for a mile away. Better than 99.5 % of the peoples' eyesight.

lidar is the scariest one.

Sometimes they go on the highway in black unmarked cars late at night and sit way ahead and aim at you.

I guess the next car i buy will be black.

Reflections absolutely in day light radar traps are not hard to find. If your paying attention you can see them. In the GTA area and outside the medians are all concrete anyways with small shoulders they're is not many places to hide.

Nothing like Chatam!

bear i had no idea you have seized that many detectors? Are alot American vehicles or something your close to the US border aren't you?

bear one time you should come do a shift with the Toronto detachment or that one at Aurora.

I think the Aurora one watches the 407 and the 400, boy you would have some fun on there .

Anyone else have a road that always seizes to amaze them. The 401 is always the same thing aggressive people in a hurry 120-140 never changes.

Although the 400 sometimes is entertaining. I have seen some wild speeds on their and even police chasing down culprits.

It must be the autobahn of Ontario.

Anyways with radar detectors i dont see the need all the time. Radar if your paying attention and not speeding to crazily you should see.

It's lidar you need to worry about and the problem with Laser Jammers is a smart officer will know when he is being jammed. You would have to disable them very quickly and slow down without jamming on your brake lights.

Moving radar is so so. It depends where you are and how much traffic. Usually in GTA you can always see the people infront and behind but i am sure in some places this is very tricky especially down in chatam where the officer can pull a U turn between highways!.

The 400 is fun. One time i even wanted to go up there on a long weekend and sit there on the shoulder and try to find a cheap lidar unit or radar unit and see the fastest speeds i can find!!!

Reflections you get around. I heard the 407 is very fast. I have never been on it at all rarely but i heard in some places they have 4-6 lanes in one direction and the flow of traffic can get well over 140.

Reflections you get around. I heard the 407 is very fast. I have never been on it at all rarely but i heard in some places they have 4-6 lanes in one direction and the flow of traffic can get well over 140.

Define "flow". One or two vehicles doing 140 while everyone else does 120 does not mean the "flow" is 140. I've been in clumps on the 407 where we all hover around 130, but if you see a LEO *bam* down to 110. And I'd say that 50% of the time the officer is just sitting doing paperwork, but his presence slows the "flow". It all depends on the time of day and weather conditions.

For example, QEW on my way into work at 6:45am the left lane is 120-130. However, get on at 7:00pm and you are looking at 100(!) to 120. 403 and 410 are a *EDIT* shoot. Sometime you move other times you sit behind some johnny who can't take his eyes off the road in front of him or get off the fookin' cell phone to look in the rearview mirror. Last night I was "flowing" in the left lane, when I came upon two cars not ten feet apart in the next lane over. There was plenty of space for the following car to move around the leader but nope. There he sat waiting to cause an accident for no reason other then he does not get it.

I'll give credit to 'Bear that driver education in Ontario is nothing more then a make work project for some govn't types, however if laws can be passed that do an end run around the constitution (*cough) S.172 (*cough, wheeez), then why not do the right thing in the eyes of "safety" and make better drivers??? I really do hope Fantino and Mcguinty give this site a gander and implement half of the suggestions......boy we can all dream can't we??

tdrive2 wrote:

Anyone else have a road that always seizes to amaze them.

That's a matter of perspective. The Don Valley Parking Lot is an absolute howler. Also for surface streets, try the Danforth, Steeles Avenue, Highway 7 and, if you want to go all day long over total incompetence at operating a motor vehicle (half the speed limit, turns from the wrong lane, stopping in the middle of the road, "fake turns" and driving through red lights 10 seconds after it turned red at 30 km/h) try Lawrence Avenue when it runs through Scarborough. The 400 is the autofragginbahn.

Reflections wrote:

I'll give credit to 'Bear that driver education in Ontario is nothing more then a make work project for some govn't types

Yep. No effort by the gov't to give people the tools and resources to be better drivers (better education); just more restrictions, banning and draconian laws.