Hey guys, I was travelling southbound and came to a stop at a red light. Was looking to make a right turn to start heading westbound. I couldn't make the turn during the red light due to traffic so I waited out for the green light. Had my signal on the entire time. When the light went green, I started to make my turn (literally foot off the break, no gas yet) and a southbound bicyclist came flying be and graced the front right of my car. He ended up falling of his bike.. Cop gave me a turn not in safety ticket. Wondering if theres any defence that would help me get out of this ticket. I HIGHLY doubt that this guy could have stopped for the red light had it not turned green. In his statement he mentioned that his attention was diverted to some pedestrians at a bus stop further up the street who had gotten in his way, and I quote "All of the sudden I was struck by a car". Shows he was biking negligently? Also have found some stuff online posted by the city of toronto that advises bicyclist to pass right turning cars on their left. Do I have a case here? I'm going to trial in two days, curious if anyone knows what lesser conviction this could be dropped to? Thanks a bunch in advance!

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Turn Not In Safety - Improper Right Turn - Bicycle Collision

by: Hjaworsk on

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bend
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Re: Turn Not In Safety - Improper Right Turn - Bicycle Colli

150. (1) The driver of a motor vehicle may overtake and pass to the right of another vehicle only where the movement can be made in safety and, (a) the vehicle overtaken is making or about to make a left turn or its driver has signalled his or her intention to make a left turn; (b) is made on a highway with unobstructed pavement of sufficient width for two or more lines of vehicles in each direction; or (c) is made on a highway designated for the use of one-way traffic only. R.S.O. 1990, c. H.8, s. 150 (1). When the list ends in "or", any apply. When it ends in "and", all apply. It's the first statement (where the movement can be made in safety) plus A, B, or C. I'd agree with argyll there. This is how i've always understood it to be for bicycles (unobstructed pavement of sufficient width). However, the section specifically goes with "motor vehicle" instead of vehicle, meaning it shouldn't apply to bicycles either way (which I hadn't noticed before, to be honest). That being said, turn not in safety is a bit brutal and doesn't care about any of this anyways. 142. (1) The driver or operator of a vehicle upon a highway before turning to the left or right at any intersection or into a private road or driveway or from one lane for traffic to another lane for traffic or to leave the roadway shall first see that the movement can be made in safety, and if the operation of any other vehicle may be affected by the movement shall give a signal plainly visible to the driver or operator of the other vehicle of the intention to make the movement. R.S.O. 1990, c. H.8, s. 142 (1). If you can't move from one lane of traffic from another without anything happening, you're in trouble. Usually, you hear about this more with left turns rather than right. There are plenty of instances where a driver making a left collides with someone who unsuccessfully tries to beat a red, signals to go right but continues straight, etc. You have to make your turn assuming someone will make a mistake, otherwise you're in a hole. Hence, technically one or both parties can be charged separately and one mistake doesn't cancel out the other.

jsherk wrote:

150. (1) The driver of a motor vehicle may overtake and pass to the right of another vehicle only where the movement can be made in safety AND, (a) the vehicle overtaken is making or about to make a left turn or its driver has signalled his or her intention to make a left turn;

150. (1) The driver of a motor vehicle may overtake and pass to the right of another vehicle only where the movement can be made in safety and,

(a) the vehicle overtaken is making or about to make a left turn or its driver has signalled his or her intention to make a left turn;

(b) is made on a highway with unobstructed pavement of sufficient width for two or more lines of vehicles in each direction; or

(c) is made on a highway designated for the use of one-way traffic only. R.S.O. 1990, c. H.8, s. 150 (1).

When the list ends in "or", any apply. When it ends in "and", all apply. It's the first statement (where the movement can be made in safety) plus A, B, or C. I'd agree with argyll there. This is how i've always understood it to be for bicycles (unobstructed pavement of sufficient width).

However, the section specifically goes with "motor vehicle" instead of vehicle, meaning it shouldn't apply to bicycles either way (which I hadn't noticed before, to be honest).

That being said, turn not in safety is a bit brutal and doesn't care about any of this anyways.

142. (1) The driver or operator of a vehicle upon a highway before turning to the left or right at any intersection or into a private road or driveway or from one lane for traffic to another lane for traffic or to leave the roadway shall first see that the movement can be made in safety, and if the operation of any other vehicle may be affected by the movement shall give a signal plainly visible to the driver or operator of the other vehicle of the intention to make the movement. R.S.O. 1990, c. H.8, s. 142 (1).

If you can't move from one lane of traffic from another without anything happening, you're in trouble. Usually, you hear about this more with left turns rather than right. There are plenty of instances where a driver making a left collides with someone who unsuccessfully tries to beat a red, signals to go right but continues straight, etc. You have to make your turn assuming someone will make a mistake, otherwise you're in a hole.

Hence, technically one or both parties can be charged separately and one mistake doesn't cancel out the other.

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Re: Turn Not In Safety - Improper Right Turn - Bicycle Colli

Unless there is a sign saying you can't cross a solid line at a particular spot, you can.

Unless there is a sign saying you can't cross a solid line at a particular spot, you can.

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Re: Turn Not In Safety - Improper Right Turn - Bicycle Colli

Not disagreeing with you, I will admit my ignorance! If you're correct, though, there seems to be a lot of misinformation out there on this topic. e.g. http://driving.ca/auto-news/news/how-ma ... nes-mean-2 https://www.thestar.com/news/gta/2009/0 ... nswer.html https://www1.toronto.ca/City%20Of%20Tor ... NALweb.pdf (2nd page at the top right) Is there a section of the HTA or its regulations that specifies road markings definitively?

screeech wrote:

Unless there is a sign saying you can't cross a solid line at a particular spot, you can.

Not disagreeing with you, I will admit my ignorance! If you're correct, though, there seems to be a lot of misinformation out there on this topic. e.g.

http://driving.ca/auto-news/news/how-ma ... nes-mean-2

https://www.thestar.com/news/gta/2009/0 ... nswer.html

https://www1.toronto.ca/City%20Of%20Tor ... NALweb.pdf (2nd page at the top right)

Is there a section of the HTA or its regulations that specifies road markings definitively?

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