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by: Radar Identified on
Thu Jan 21, 2010 3:43 pm

The trick is in the wording of the section...
Signal for left or right turn - 142.

(1) The driver or operator of a vehicle upon a highway before turning to the left or right at any intersection or into a private road or driveway or from one lane for traffic to another lane for traffic or to leave the roadway shall first see that the movement can be made in safety, and if the operation of any other vehicle may be affected by the movement shall give a signal plainly visible to the driver or operator of the other vehicle of the intention to make the movement.
It's buried in the section for signalling turns but it's there. This particular section covers:

- Lane change, not in safety
- Left/right turn, not in safety
- Leave roadway, not in safety
- Failure to signal lane change
- Failure to signal turn

So what happened?
* The above is NOT legal advice. By acting on anything I have said, you assume responsibility for any outcome and consequences. *
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marilyn mckeown
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by: marilyn mckeown on
Thu Jan 21, 2010 5:32 pm

driving a transit bus had already moved from bus stop and was committed into going around parked vechile just in front of stop.
this stop is near busy intersection. 3/4 of bus was straddeling curb and center lane a vechile coming up cross street turn behind me on center lane sounded horn did not try to slow or give me room had my left signal on and yield to bus sign totally visible. needless to say my mirror made contact and henceforth the ticket. i recieved $110 fine which i am going to challenge. my reason is i can't lose anymore than i have. it would be nice if there were courtesy drivers out there and they would realize that bus is much larger then theirs the officer was very nice about said if he could reword it he would be now days one has to get fined so it fell on me. thanks for listening.also need to know details on how to do this court thing


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by: racer on
Thu Jan 21, 2010 7:36 pm

Drivers MUST yield to transit buses. It is the law now. Looks like charge was mis-laid there.
"The more laws, the less justice" - Marcus Tullius Cicero
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by: racer on
Thu Jan 21, 2010 8:01 pm

As for doing the "court thing", there are a lot of general things you need to do. Read any of the cases here and follow the recommendations.
"The more laws, the less justice" - Marcus Tullius Cicero
"The hardest thing to explain is the obvious"

www.OHTA.ca & www.OntarioHighwayTrafficAct.com


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by: Radar Identified on
Thu Jan 21, 2010 9:29 pm

marilyn mckeown wrote:a vechile coming up cross street turn behind me on center lane sounded horn did not try to slow or give me room had my left signal on and yield to bus sign totally visible.
You said the driver turned off a cross street DIRECTLY into the centre lane? If he turned directly into the centre lane and the collision occurred almost immediately afterwards, he should have been charged making an improper left turn, or possibly careless driving. This is a pet peeve of mine - drivers who turn left must turn into the left lane, unless there is more than one designated left-turning lane. If it happened mid-block, though, that's a different story.

Did the officer witness the collision? If not, and he's not an accident reconstruction expert, they'll need the other driver to testify to get a conviction.

As for court... some of them allow you to mail it in to request a trial date, but others require that you show up in person. In which city did this collision happen? If you have to show up in person, the ticket should tell you where to go. Bring the ticket with you. Some places (e.g. Toronto) have an on-line Notice to Appear form that you can download and fill out to speed things up. Just show up, say you want to request a trial with a plea of "not guilty," and they'll take it, stamp it, and mail you a court date later.

A site to check out for a good primer on all of this is www.ticketcombat.com

It may seem like a lot, but keep us posted and we can help you with things like requesting disclosure, figuring out a defence, etc. Or, you could hire a paralegal to do all of the work for you. There's a form to fill out at the bottom of this page for a free no-obligation quote!
* The above is NOT legal advice. By acting on anything I have said, you assume responsibility for any outcome and consequences. *
http://www.OntarioTicket.com OR http://www.OHTA.ca


marilyn mckeown
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by: marilyn mckeown on
Fri Jan 22, 2010 11:25 pm

the police officer did not witness the incident , only ask me what happened i tried to explain as best i can and he did the same for the other driver but he did not take notes at any time he was talking to us. may have done in his cruiser.my controller(superviser) was also at scene. don't know what was said there too. I don't know in which direction the driver came from and this happen in thunder bay. so asking for disclosure will tell what he wrote? if i decide just to pay the fine would i be able to plea bargain to have the dermits dropped? i read few others replies on here, would like to have options the thought of going to court is very intimadating.Thank-you for this forum i have learn alot so far and its interesting


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by: Radar Identified on
Sun Jan 24, 2010 1:15 pm

marilyn mckeown wrote:so asking for disclosure will tell what he wrote?
Yes. After you get your trial date, you (or a paralegal) can file the paperwork for disclosure. What should be included (and you should ask for) are the officer's notes, a copy of the collision report, and any photographic evidence (assuming that they have any).
marilyn mckeown wrote: if i decide just to pay the fine would i be able to plea bargain to have the dermits dropped?
Unfortunately, no. Demerit points are automatically put on your record by MTO with the conviction, there is no way the Justice of the Peace can reduce/eliminate demerit points for this offence. You could try to plea-bargain to an offence that does not have demerit points, though.
marilyn mckeown wrote:would like to have options the thought of going to court is very intimadating.
One of the things I found useful is I stopped into a courthouse and observed a few traffic ticket trials. If you have time off, you can do this for free, you just have to show up at the courthouse, and maybe ask a court officer or clerk where they're holding provincial offences (traffic) court. They'll be able to tell you. All you have to do is walk in, sit down and watch. It's free of charge. Then you can see how it works for yourself and decide if this is something you'd be willing to do.
* The above is NOT legal advice. By acting on anything I have said, you assume responsibility for any outcome and consequences. *
http://www.OntarioTicket.com OR http://www.OHTA.ca


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by: Radar Identified on
Tue Jan 26, 2010 4:40 pm

marilyn mckeown wrote:Can i use a digital camera? would like to show how that every bus that uses the stop and if theres a parked vehicle there its impossible to get around and that partly going into center lane occurs
I have taken one without a parked vehicle and a few with
And do i need to have copies?
Also i happen to have a paper replica of bus. Can i use that to show on drawing of what happened?
Can the police use what my superviser says?
reason is that on the ticket i noticed the officer put on the number of passengers that where on bus? and anything else would be hearsay ..correct? or no?
He did not show up till about 5 minutes after and all passengers where off or getting off the bus.No one stayed behind.
Here are some guidelines for submitting photographs:

http://www.ontariohighwaytrafficact.com/topic1765.html

Yes, the police may use any statement provided by your supervisor. As for passengers, the number on the ticket in this case is more for reference than anything.
marilyn mckeown wrote:I don't know in which direction the driver came from
This might be a problem. If the driver had been in that lane for a while (meaning he'd just been driving along and hadn't moved into the centre lane as you were trying to move into it), that would mean that you'd be guilty of the charge. Anyone making a lane change is responsible for doing so safely. The only defence is if you'd had right-of-way. As I'm sure you know, buses only have right of way if they're leaving a bus bay. Can you show, with your photos, that you were leaving a bus bay when the collision happened?
* The above is NOT legal advice. By acting on anything I have said, you assume responsibility for any outcome and consequences. *
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by: Bookm on
Wed Jan 27, 2010 10:16 am

I think the bus only has the right-of-way to the first lane though, not all the way to the next lane over (centre-lane).

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by: Radar Identified on
Wed Jan 27, 2010 12:17 pm

Bookm wrote:I think the bus only has the right-of-way to the first lane though, not all the way to the next lane over (centre-lane).
You are right - I just re-read section 142.1 now. :oops:

Also... even if it is leaving a bus bay... the bus cannot move over if it is "impracticable" for other drivers to yield the right-of-way.
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by: hwybear on
Wed Feb 24, 2010 11:52 am

other post locked at http://www.ontariohighwaytrafficact.com ... te&p=12870

copied below

*********************************************
marilyn mckeown wrote:i have requested my disclosure and was called to pick it up. i have a question. he states in it that my superviser took photos of the damage.
so who has to produces these me or the prosecutor ? i disagree with the way the officer said the damage was done. He said i rip open the the side of the truck but all i saw was dents and scratches. Not sure if this reverent.. pls advise..
marilyn mckeown wrote: important question please help..
Does the accident number on the motor vechile accident report all have to be the same?. the one copy i received at the scene has a different number from the one i received from my disclosure request.
trying to find any errors they may have done.
Above is merely a suggestion/thought and in no way constitutes legal advice or views of my employer. www.OHTA.ca


marilyn mckeown
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by: marilyn mckeown on
Wed Feb 24, 2010 1:10 pm

on the m.v.a report the incident # is different from the copy i received from disclosure. Does this have any bearing for a dismissal in court? the officer scratched the number off and wrote a different one twice.. please help..


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by: OPS Copper on
Wed Feb 24, 2010 3:42 pm

No it just means that the officer wrote the wrong incident number down and then it was corrected. The incident number you got on the original could be for anything.

Happens all the time as we regularly have more than one incident open that we are working on.

OPS


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