I have a traffic speeding ticket date coming up. Officer notes disclosed usage of genesis vp directional radar to register speed at approx 200m's out in clear line of sight. Now based on his position I measured the 200m distance which coils around bridge and thus it logically cant be considered clear line of sight? Accordingly my questions are: 1) does radar unit have ability to clock when something isn't clear line of sight? ( i had someone stand where he was & measured distance. Could not see each other). If not considered line of sight how can i submit in form that would be acceptable to court? 2) how much leeway is given to officer's narrative (i.e. he noted "approx" 200m. What if clear line of sight only happens at 125-150m?). Thanks in advance for any responses.
I have a traffic speeding ticket date coming up. Officer notes disclosed usage of genesis vp directional radar to register speed at approx 200m's out in clear line of sight. Now based on his position I measured the 200m distance which coils around bridge and thus it logically cant be considered clear line of sight? Accordingly my questions are:
1) does radar unit have ability to clock when something isn't clear line of sight? ( i had someone stand where he was & measured distance. Could not see each other). If not considered line of sight how can i submit in form that would be acceptable to court?
2) how much leeway is given to officer's narrative (i.e. he noted "approx" 200m. What if clear line of sight only happens at 125-150m?).
Also he was on private property which oddly enough I've noticed the home owner has put up a sign (but need to confirm if sign was put up then or sometime thereafter). Anyone of note on this issues as well?
Also he was on private property which oddly enough I've noticed the home owner has put up a sign (but need to confirm if sign was put up then or sometime thereafter). Anyone of note on this issues as well?
It wont matter. That's a separate issue between the officer and he property owner.
innocent1 wrote:
Also he was on private property which oddly enough I've noticed the home owner has put up a sign (but need to confirm if sign was put up then or sometime thereafter). Anyone of note on this issues as well?
It wont matter. That's a separate issue between the officer and he property owner.
Radar would require line of sight to obtain a reading, but as you said it was an approximation of distance on his part. Being off by a significant distance could be problematic, but not fatal to the case.
Radar would require line of sight to obtain a reading, but as you said it was an approximation of distance on his part. Being off by a significant distance could be problematic, but not fatal to the case.
I guess that's the point what is considered gross estimation mistake. I'd have to measure again but it almost seems like you have to be 125-100m to get straight line of sight which is up to half the distance estimated. If anyone has anymore thoughts it would be appreciated.
I guess that's the point what is considered gross estimation mistake. I'd have to measure again but it almost seems like you have to be 125-100m to get straight line of sight which is up to half the distance estimated.
If anyone has anymore thoughts it would be appreciated.
An officer should and is trained to approximate a distance fairly closely. So if he is approximating 200 meters, logic would say plus or minus 20 meters, that is 10%. But 150 meters or 100 meters, that is way off. Having said that, the distance at which he clocked you is irrelevant, the question is if he had a clear line of sight, becaue: A. If he did not have a clear line of sight, he could not even see, much less clock you B. Radars measure on a straight line (again line of sight) so if you are not visible to the office, you are not visible to the radar. Going back to the fact that his approximation of your distance is way off, it is possible that the officer is new to the force, if that is the case you might have a chance of getting him to say something on the stand that could work to your benefit.
An officer should and is trained to approximate a distance fairly closely. So if he is approximating 200 meters, logic would say plus or minus 20 meters, that is 10%.
But 150 meters or 100 meters, that is way off.
Having said that, the distance at which he clocked you is irrelevant, the question is if he had a clear line of sight, becaue:
A. If he did not have a clear line of sight, he could not even see, much less clock you
B. Radars measure on a straight line (again line of sight) so if you are not visible to the office, you are not visible to the radar.
Going back to the fact that his approximation of your distance is way off, it is possible that the officer is new to the force, if that is the case you might have a chance of getting him to say something on the stand that could work to your benefit.
Thanks for the response. I believe the officer is experienced but at any rate my dilemma is proving the distance in court. I can take a video and pictures mapping out the distance but will the court accept that? Can they say the image is not official? Any thoughts on how to present? No doubt at 200m I'm definitely out of sight.
Thanks for the response. I believe the officer is experienced but at any rate my dilemma is proving the distance in court. I can take a video and pictures mapping out the distance but will the court accept that? Can they say the image is not official? Any thoughts on how to present? No doubt at 200m I'm definitely out of sight.
Read carefully what Observer35 said, he's correct. At the very most, the distance being wrong in the notes will have a tiny bearing on the officer's credibility, which you may or may not be able to exploit on cross examination. If you allow yourself to get hung up on this one discrepancy, you're going down the rabbit hole. If he had you in line of sight, he had you in line of sight, the actually distance doesn't really matter.
Read carefully what Observer35 said, he's correct. At the very most, the distance being wrong in the notes will have a tiny bearing on the officer's credibility, which you may or may not be able to exploit on cross examination.
If you allow yourself to get hung up on this one discrepancy, you're going down the rabbit hole. If he had you in line of sight, he had you in line of sight, the actually distance doesn't really matter.
Thanks for all responses. Last thing is I requested disclosure including radar manual....however after getting notes (without radar manual copy) was told that have to go to police unit. Went to police unit and they told me they don't provide viewing access to. Thus on trial date do I have ground to request dismissal or at very least adjournment until court allows access? Is there case precedent for this?
Thanks for all responses. Last thing is I requested disclosure including radar manual....however after getting notes (without radar manual copy) was told that have to go to police unit. Went to police unit and they told me they don't provide viewing access to. Thus on trial date do I have ground to request dismissal or at very least adjournment until court allows access? Is there case precedent for this?
The manual are third party record, police don't own them and aren't required to disclose them. You can contact the manufacturer but they won't help. I've had several people try try this tactic unsuccessfully.
The manual are third party record, police don't own them and aren't required to disclose them.
You can contact the manufacturer but they won't help.
I've had several people try try this tactic unsuccessfully.
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