I was in court today to get a deal from the prosecutor for speeding 73 in 50 zone. I decided to get a trial date because of the possiblity that the officer won't show up. One thing I learnt from a legal expert (who happened to stop by in the hall and talk to the public) was that I did not have to verify whether or not the officer is present in order to make a deal; that the prosecutor will automatically withdraw the charge once I am called upon if the witness is absent. Indeed, this is what happened to some people. In a courtroom of 20-25 people, I noticed 3 charges withdrawn based on the absence of the witness, and I was only the 10th or so to be called, so I assume there were more (although they do tend to be handled first). There is, however, one thing I'm not clear about. If the prosecutor arrives 30 minutes before the trial, and thereafter does not communicate with anyone besides the public, then how on earth does he know which officers have made it or not? Do the officers and prosecutor all arrive together? If not, how does it work? I just wonder whether in fact we can trust the prosecutor to always announce when the witness is not present before the defendant is charged.
I was in court today to get a deal from the prosecutor for speeding 73 in 50 zone. I decided to get a trial date because of the possiblity that the officer won't show up. One thing I learnt from a legal expert (who happened to stop by in the hall and talk to the public) was that I did not have to verify whether or not the officer is present in order to make a deal; that the prosecutor will automatically withdraw the charge once I am called upon if the witness is absent. Indeed, this is what happened to some people. In a courtroom of 20-25 people, I noticed 3 charges withdrawn based on the absence of the witness, and I was only the 10th or so to be called, so I assume there were more (although they do tend to be handled first).
There is, however, one thing I'm not clear about. If the prosecutor arrives 30 minutes before the trial, and thereafter does not communicate with anyone besides the public, then how on earth does he know which officers have made it or not?
Do the officers and prosecutor all arrive together? If not, how does it work?
I just wonder whether in fact we can trust the prosecutor to always announce when the witness is not present before the defendant is charged.
most prosecutors know each officer, a quick glance at officers and they know who is there and not. - could also be a note on their desk that officer "X" called in sick today and officer "Y" is at criminal court, so not available for traffic court
most prosecutors know each officer, a quick glance at officers and they know who is there and not.
- could also be a note on their desk that officer "X" called in sick today and officer "Y" is at criminal court, so not available for traffic court
Above is merely a suggestion/thought and in no way constitutes legal advice or views of my employer. www.OHTA.ca
Ok, so let's say that they are notified on that day about who will not be present for whatever reason. That still leaves a lot of uncertainty as to whether the rest will in fact make it. I say this assuming that the prosecutor does not meet with every single officer before proceeding to the courtroom. Or do they? The reason I don't think this is a trivial question is because... let's say a defendant accepted a deal with the prosecutor, but then decides to play hardball in the courtroom, and so before he enters a guilty plea, he asks the prosecutor "is your witness present?" What does he say? Does he know for sure that the witness is available outside?
Ok, so let's say that they are notified on that day about who will not be present for whatever reason. That still leaves a lot of uncertainty as to whether the rest will in fact make it. I say this assuming that the prosecutor does not meet with every single officer before proceeding to the courtroom. Or do they?
The reason I don't think this is a trivial question is because... let's say a defendant accepted a deal with the prosecutor, but then decides to play hardball in the courtroom, and so before he enters a guilty plea, he asks the prosecutor "is your witness present?" What does he say? Does he know for sure that the witness is available outside?
I thought something like that might happen, but is it always the case? Perhaps the JP might think it would be a waste of valuable time/resources to reschedule. And then there's always the argument for the right to a speedy trial if the reschedule is months away. If everyone played hardball and got a reschedule, surely that would be a very convenient loophole for defendants, but I doubt it's that simple. So thanks for the input, but I'd like to hear some more opinions if there are any.
I thought something like that might happen, but is it always the case? Perhaps the JP might think it would be a waste of valuable time/resources to reschedule. And then there's always the argument for the right to a speedy trial if the reschedule is months away. If everyone played hardball and got a reschedule, surely that would be a very convenient loophole for defendants, but I doubt it's that simple. So thanks for the input, but I'd like to hear some more opinions if there are any.
It is not a good idea. Like OPS said the DA will get a adjournment and you will get no deals. Also if you live in the area where the cop patrols you can expect to get pulled over a lot. Cheers Viper1
aoex wrote:
I thought something like that might happen, but is it always the case? Perhaps the JP might think it would be a waste of valuable time/resources to reschedule. And then there's always the argument for the right to a speedy trial if the reschedule is months away. If everyone played hardball and got a reschedule, surely that would be a very convenient loophole for defendants, but I doubt it's that simple. So thanks for the input, but I'd like to hear some more opinions if there are any.
It is not a good idea.
Like OPS said the DA will get a adjournment and you will get no deals.
Also if you live in the area where the cop patrols you can expect to
get pulled over a lot.
Cheers
Viper1
"hang onto your chair when reading my posts
use at your own risk"
So you agree with OPS, but can you elaborate on why getting an adjournment is necessarily bad? As I pointed out, a reschedule could be used towards an 11b argument, no? And once again, I ask, will the DA always get an adjournment? So the officer is going to hold a grudge against me because I made him attend my court appearance and he will haunt me for the rest of my life? ;) Let me state, by the way, that my trial is over and done with, so this is only for the sake of curiosity. I dont "need" any info; feel free to ignore this discussion if you find it pointless.
It is not a good idea.
Like OPS said the DA will get a adjournment and you will get no deals.
So you agree with OPS, but can you elaborate on why getting an adjournment is necessarily bad? As I pointed out, a reschedule could be used towards an 11b argument, no? And once again, I ask, will the DA always get an adjournment?
Also if you live in the area where the cop patrols you can expect to
get pulled over a lot.
So the officer is going to hold a grudge against me because I made him attend my court appearance and he will haunt me for the rest of my life?
Let me state, by the way, that my trial is over and done with, so this is only for the sake of curiosity. I dont "need" any info; feel free to ignore this discussion if you find it pointless.
you probably know better than me, but it wouldn't make sense or at least it wouldn't be fair to attribute the rescheduling to the defendant if he/she wants a trial and the witness is absent. After all, who's fault is it that the officer is not available?
you probably know better than me, but it wouldn't make sense or at least it wouldn't be fair to attribute the rescheduling to the defendant if he/she wants a trial and the witness is absent. After all, who's fault is it that the officer is not available?
So you agree with OPS, but can you elaborate on why getting an adjournment is necessarily bad? As I pointed out, a reschedule could be used towards an 11b argument, no? And once again, I ask, will the DA always get an adjournment? So the officer is going to hold a grudge against me because I made him attend my court appearance and he will haunt me for the rest of my life? ;) Let me state, by the way, that my trial is over and done with, so this is only for the sake of curiosity. I dont "need" any info; feel free to ignore this discussion if you find it pointless. I am no expert but I do believe some of the cops take it personal. Last trial I was at I thought she was gonna cry. What really happens when you do this is that you demean the word of others. Part of the bargain is so the cop can leave. Play the game the way you feel most comfortable. Cheers Viper1
aoex wrote:
It is not a good idea.
Like OPS said the DA will get a adjournment and you will get no deals.
So you agree with OPS, but can you elaborate on why getting an adjournment is necessarily bad? As I pointed out, a reschedule could be used towards an 11b argument, no? And once again, I ask, will the DA always get an adjournment?
Also if you live in the area where the cop patrols you can expect to
get pulled over a lot.
So the officer is going to hold a grudge against me because I made him attend my court appearance and he will haunt me for the rest of my life?
Let me state, by the way, that my trial is over and done with, so this is only for the sake of curiosity. I dont "need" any info; feel free to ignore this discussion if you find it pointless.
I am no expert but I do believe some of the cops take it personal.
Last trial I was at I thought she was gonna cry.
What really happens when you do this is that you demean the word of others.
Part of the bargain is so the cop can leave.
Play the game the way you feel most comfortable.
Cheers
Viper1
"hang onto your chair when reading my posts
use at your own risk"
Let me clarify again that my trial is over, so I am not really asking for advice. I may have started off the thread giving the wrong impression that I was in court simply to make a deal with the prosecutor, whereas in fact this deal was made right before the trial and I was convicted. in reply to Viper1: While it is true that I can fool the prosecutor by accepting a deal and then asking for the witness when I am called to the stand, thus earning the contempt of the opposing party, I could also be more honest and tell the prosecutor "let me think about your offer" and then take a decision on the stand. But the issue still remains that the prosecutor, in my experience, does NOT communicate with any officers after the line-up bargains with the defendants, so it is unclear how they can notify the officers to stay or leave. I understand of course that none of you may know the inner dealings/procedures of prosecutors with respect to their witnesses prior to the trial, but that was the main issue I was targeting with this thread.
Let me clarify again that my trial is over, so I am not really asking for advice. I may have started off the thread giving the wrong impression that I was in court simply to make a deal with the prosecutor, whereas in fact this deal was made right before the trial and I was convicted.
in reply to Viper1:
While it is true that I can fool the prosecutor by accepting a deal and then asking for the witness when I am called to the stand, thus earning the contempt of the opposing party, I could also be more honest and tell the prosecutor "let me think about your offer" and then take a decision on the stand. But the issue still remains that the prosecutor, in my experience, does NOT communicate with any officers after the line-up bargains with the defendants, so it is unclear how they can notify the officers to stay or leave. I understand of course that none of you may know the inner dealings/procedures of prosecutors with respect to their witnesses prior to the trial, but that was the main issue I was targeting with this thread.
So you agree with OPS, but can you elaborate on why getting an adjournment is necessarily bad? As I pointed out, a reschedule could be used towards an 11b argument, no? And once again, I ask, will the DA always get an adjournment? I'm not up on the ins/outs of the above stuff. But since a resolution was made, the officer released by prosecutor, then the defendant pulls that stunt is "acting in bad faith", shouldn't 11B then go against defendant?
aoex wrote:
It is not a good idea.
Like OPS said the DA will get a adjournment and you will get no deals.
So you agree with OPS, but can you elaborate on why getting an adjournment is necessarily bad? As I pointed out, a reschedule could be used towards an 11b argument, no? And once again, I ask, will the DA always get an adjournment?
I'm not up on the ins/outs of the above stuff. But since a resolution was made, the officer released by prosecutor, then the defendant pulls that stunt is "acting in bad faith", shouldn't 11B then go against defendant?
Above is merely a suggestion/thought and in no way constitutes legal advice or views of my employer. www.OHTA.ca
Delay should be peremptory on the defendant in that case - so no stay due to 11B available.
hwybear wrote:
But since a resolution was made, the officer released by prosecutor, then the defendant pulls that stunt is "acting in bad faith", shouldn't 11B then go against defendant?
Delay should be peremptory on the defendant in that case - so no stay due to 11B available.
* The above is NOT legal advice. By acting on anything I have said, you assume responsibility for any outcome and consequences. *
http://www.OntarioTicket.com OR http://www.OHTA.ca
I see what you guys are saying, but I also pointed out (last reply) that the defendant could tell the prosecutor "I'll have to think about your offer" and then make a decision on the stand, thus not acting in bad faith. What do you say to this? ALSO, this is what really interests me: how does the prosecutor communicate to each officer that he can leave because their respective defendants accepted an offer? (does he have an assistant??)
I'm not up on the ins/outs of the above stuff. But since a resolution was made, the officer released by prosecutor, then the defendant pulls that stunt is "acting in bad faith", shouldn't 11B then go against defendant?
I see what you guys are saying, but I also pointed out (last reply) that the defendant could tell the prosecutor "I'll have to think about your offer" and then make a decision on the stand, thus not acting in bad faith. What do you say to this?
ALSO, this is what really interests me: how does the prosecutor communicate to each officer that he can leave because their respective defendants accepted an offer? (does he have an assistant??)
I got ticket for failing to stop at stop sign in Toronto. i heard that the police officer must see the stop line, if there is one, from where he was sitting. That is exactly my case, Is it a strong case? If so do i need a picture to show that there is a stop line and a picture to show that he could not see the stop line from where he was sitting?
I got a ticket, Disobey stop sign, sec 136.1.a on dec 6th
I made a left in an intersection and was pulled over by a police officer in an unmarked car who had been sitting down the road. A classic fishing hole situation. I was genuinely surprised when he stopped me and told me I went through a stop sign without even slowing down. I know to shut up and be polite and take the ticket. I…
Yesterday morning, I rear-ended someone. I was going the speed limit. The sun was directly in front of me and it blinded my windshield and my eyes. At the same time, the person in front of me stopped/slowed down (also due to the sun). I started to slow down but didn't stop and I hit them since I couldn't see anything. I was not driving too close initially. I…
I was driving in the county at night and hit a limousine stretched out side ways across the road. The limo had its lights on and had side lighting as well. The police officer charged me with careless driving because it was "fully lit up".
It took me to the next day to figure out what had happened - what I remember made no sense. What I had run across was a "false visual reference" illusion.
I was on hwy 37 trying to make my girlfriends ganadmas mass and I live an hour away and I had an hour to get there so I was going fast but not 50 over untill some idiot got on my tail soo close that I was to concentrated on him that I kept going faster untill I got pulled over at 147 on an 80 km hwy.
I alreaddy lost 3 points and this time was just the…
Hello, got stopped today for rolling a stop sign. Ticket says failure to stop, but quotes hta 1361b.
Doesn't 1361b mean failure to yield?
Is this a fatal error? Or could it be amended at trial. How can I prepare a defence if I don't know if I'm defending the failure to stop or the failure to yield?
After he was providing me with a ticket for failure to obey to the stop sign (I am pretty sure I stopped but less than 3 seconds recommended by my driver ed. instructor), I know everybody say that..as an excuse.
Then he stopped me again to return the documents.
Any advice and feed back would be really appreciated.
Can you get evidence for whether someone had an advanced green at an intersection? My dad was making a right turn on a red (after stopping) into a plaza parking lot. He got hit by someone making a left turn from the opposite lane. The driver told the officer called to the collision that he had an advance green. My dad said he came out of nowhere which makes me…
So i was driving on Eglinton Avenue East near Rosemount Ave.
The school bus was on the the curb on the opposite side of the road while i was travelling on the middle lane of the three-laned Eglinton Avenue East (five lanes apart plus a raised median island seperating the traffic)
I could not see the school bus as my view of the bus was being obstructed by the cars in front of me and on my left hand…
Lots of good information on getting disclosure from the Crown here.
Now, I am just wondering if I will be relying upon evidence of my own at trial... do I have to voluntarily send this material to the Crown in a reasonable time before the trial, or only if they request disclosure from me?
This morning I had an exam for university. I was studying the entire night and i wanted to catch like maybe 1-2 hours of sleep before the exam so i went to sleep. I woke up like 5 hrs after and realize that I was about to miss my exam. I still could have made it so I asked my dad for his car since I was in a huge rush and he gave it to me.
I went on the highway and I was going at 135 km/h but…
the police officer was in in the opesite oncumming lane he was fallowing another car so close that i was not even able to see his cruser till he was buy he said that i was going 111 in a 80 he said he hade me on radar he only asked for me drivers licencs and never asked for my insurence so on the ticket there no insurence dose enyone think i can beat this i wana take it to cort becuse he was…
Hi I have a couple questions so I'll explain my situation and any advice would be appreciated.
Can't remember exact date so lets call it some time in 2008 I got a fine for $5000.00 for driving without in insurance. I never paid the fine and in 2012 I was pulled over and the officer asked to see my license. Although I had it on me I figured it would be under suspension for the unpaid fine from…
Alright, so I did something really stupid the other day, I was driving down a country road and wanted to hit the curves so I passed 3 cars at once, inadvertently making it up to very much past 50 over (80 limit)... Much to my chagrin there was a cop coming in the opposite direction who immediately skidded on the gravel shoulder and who I thought was 100% going to turn around and pull me over,…
Anyone know how backed this courthouse is? I submitted my ticket for trial at the end of August, and still no letter. Im scared it got lost in the mail, can i call the courthouse and find out my courtdate? Or would i have to go in personally?
I recently received a ticket for failure to use low beams - while following - Ticket was issued Sec 168 (
- it was on the 401 and no one was within 500 meters of me, I was warning a oncoming vehicle that there was an officer hiding (which is not illegal or I could not find a law against it) it was a police vehicle travelling at very high rate of speed in the opposite direction with no lights on…
I received a warning letter from MTO for a 2pts ticket.What happened is that the police officer issued a "unsafe left turn" and then changed the ticket to "failed to signal" at the scene, but she submitted both tickets!!! And I !!!ONLY!!! received the latter ticket from her(I requested trial for "failed to signal"). I recently received notice from MTO that I'm convicted for "unsafe left turn".
Hello everyone! I was given a ticket for using a hand-held communication device while driving. It was 3 am, I was at a stop light and the cop saw me with the my phone in my hand. I told him i was just checking the time on it. I received the notes a few weeks ago ill copy them down below. Any help is appreciated although i believe there's no hope for me. The cop recorded me saying what phone i…
I got pulled over about 15 or so days ago the court till this date has not received the summons what is the legal time period that the court has to follow to accept the summons from the office court says its 15 days is the legal timeframe the officer has to serve it on the court
I requested for disclosure of information two months ago.
I received the radar manual after one month, but not others (including maintenance/calibration record of the radar, certificate of police training). On further pursuit, the prosecutor told me that he did not have them and he did not see why I needed these documents. He said he did not know where to get them when I asked.
Last Friday I was pulled over by an OPP motorcycle cop who informed me I was going 134. I was on the SB 404, I did see him parked under a bridge and when I passed him he was not on his bike.
I'm hoping to get some insight for a defense in this case.
I was in lane 1 and I had a car in front of me, and a car behind me, also there was a car speeding down Lane 3 passing everyone and moved quickly into…
