Failure to stop for a school bus

I was out on a four lane highway around Orangeville Ontario and I noticed a school bus coming south (I was going north). I kept my eyes on the bus in case it was going to stop. As I approached it, it was slowing down a little, but no lights, and especially no arm with the STOP sign. As I was just about to pass the bus, I still did not see the lights, nor did I see the STOP sign.

Next thing I know the cop comes out of nowhere and pulls myself and two other people over. He accuses me of going through a stopped bus. I was pretty outraged but kept quiet about it.

I'm definitely appealing this. But I haven't seen another case like mine on here and I'm wondering if anyone has any tips and any idea if I have a chance on this one? It's basically my word against his.

the "stop arm" does not have to be working for this to be an offence.

Here is the section for the offence:

HTA 175 (11) Every driver meeting on a highway, other than a highway with a median strip, a stopped school bus that has its overhead red signal-lights flashing, shall stop before reaching the bus and shall not proceed until the bus moves or the overhead red signal-lights have stopped flashing

I never saw the lights. I was watching for those too. I stopped looking when I was basically right next to the bus. All I saw was the bus slowing down. All I know is this one would be a killer to insurance so I will be fighting this one.

My mom was a bus driver and I helped her out a few times as a kid. Usually when a driver blows through the red lights and it's a public school bus then they'll get a bus patroller or someone to write the plate number down so it can be reported.

If you're desperate for evidence and it happened recently then you can try to get a hold of the company dispatcher and have them ask the driver if anyone has broken that law recently.

That's a far stretch though just to warn you.

Unfortunately the Officer was right there so he's the one who made the call.

I'm definitely appealing this. But I haven't seen another case like mine on here and I'm wondering if anyone has any tips and any idea if I have a chance on this one? It's basically my word against his.

Thats all you need. Get professional help.

So I had my first appearance today. It was real quick, they told me that they can't reduce the charge, only the fine amount. That's obviously not good enough for me, I need this charge dropped. This is my first ever offense (seriously, ever, I've been driving for 10 years), and I have a few questions and would seriously appreciate some answers:

1) If convicted, how bad of an insurance hike would I be looking at? I only pay about $1,600 a year right now.

2) I'm guessing there's no risk of anything other than the $490 fine and 6 demerit points if convicted, right?

3) I'm a little worried of them using video. While I am sure that I did nothing wrong and when I passed the bus, the lights weren't on yet, are they allowed to tape me (either the bus or police) without me knowing about it? Seems like a privacy violation right there.

4) I am getting a paralegal, no questions asked. So I don't think I need to touch this one?

Thanks!

Improper passing of a school bus is considered a major violation by the Insurance Bureau of Canada. Because of the complexity of calculating insurance premiums, no one but your insurance company can tell you how a conviction will affect your rates. However improper passing of a school bus is in the same category with failing to report an accident and driving without insurance, so the increase will probably be big.

Also, there is nothing wrong with anybody video taping you without your knowledge in this situation.

Simon Borys wrote:

Also, there is nothing wrong with anybody video taping you without your knowledge in this situation.

+1

You're in a public place. It is reasonable to think that you may be videotaped or photographed at some point, with or without your knowledge. Happens every time you walk into a bank, gas station, grocery store, airport, or even drive through certain intersections.

Simon Borys wrote:

so the increase will probably be big.

Some insurance companies will terminate your coverage for this particular offence. Although there is no technical link between demerit points and insurance per se... any 6-point or 7-point offence is a big risk for cancellation of coverage.

hwybear wrote:

the "stop arm" does not have to be working for this to be an offence.

Here is the section for the offence:

HTA 175 (11) Every driver meeting on a highway, other than a highway with a median strip, a stopped school bus that has its overhead red signal-lights flashing, shall stop before reaching the bus and shall not proceed until the bus moves or the overhead red signal-lights have stopped flashing

Just a question on this.... on a hwy where the speed limit is 80 kmh and a bus is about to make a stop they activate their overhead lights and slow down. Now if a guy is coming towards the bus he would have to stop awful fast to not pass a bus he is oncoming towards at those speeds. I find that bus drivers activate their lights too soon (in this case as they start to slow down, so still doing 70kmh) I assume they do this so the vehicles behind them wont try to pass them . But what are the obligations of oncoming drivers in this situation?

hey

I have seen them turn on them early too.

I think they are on a schedule and need to save time.

If anyone looked at a school bus driver's manual

I think it will say that the bus must stop before activating lights.Ask for schoolbus driver, the cop's and the kids' on it (the bus) discloser.

Maybe the manual for school buses?(or bring it)

You will get off.

Cheers

Stripe

I appreciate everyone's replies so far, it's been great. But I got my court date and it's time to hire someone. I'm going with either POINTTS or X-Copper. Does anyone have a recommendation?

And from my understanding, I need to be sure to get a former police officer to represent me?

KGBP12 wrote:

I need to be sure to get a former police officer to represent me?

Does not have to be a former police officer. Just make sure that it is a licenced paralegal (Law Society of Upper Canada).

Finally ended this today. There were too many trials today so they offered me failure to stop for a stop sign. I said whatever, they let it go to that. Had to pay the same fine but I'm feeling pretty good.

At least you got something. Just came from court too, the prosecution didn't even offer anything and on top of that they increased the fine . Was pretty much convicted before I even started. Its ridiculous how they are able to get away with this. For anybody that is also going through this fight as much as you can, the cop and judge will have to mess up sometimes so at least some of us wont get screwed.

Was yours out on Highway 10 in Caledon too?

No this was on coleraine dr in bolton, so caledon as well. The cop that stop me is such a regular every paralegal i called or xcopper knew who this cop was by name and is a regular with this offences. Even my father in law got hit with the same thing. Well now is time to drive like a granny with this 6 demerit points they took out and my insurance probably going to skyrocket.

Are you going to appeal it?

what happened in the court? what evidence you saw from the cop?

daxter10 wrote:

At least you got something. Just came from court too, the prosecution didn't even offer anything and on top of that they increased the fine . Was pretty much convicted before I even started. Its ridiculous how they are able to get away with this. For anybody that is also going through this fight as much as you can, the cop and judge will have to mess up sometimes so at least some of us wont get screwed.