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Ontario Highway Traffic Act

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168 in 80 on Hwy 118 Muskoka: Paralegal/Lawyer Refererals
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PostPosted: Thu Nov 12, 2015 12:47 pm 
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168 in an 80. Car is impounded for 7 days. yada yada yada.
Can anyone refer a great lawyer or paralegal in the Bracebridge/Haliburton/Minden area?


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Re: 168 in 80 on Hwy 118 Muskoka: Paralegal/Lawyer Refereral
PostPosted: Fri Nov 13, 2015 9:39 am 
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"yada yada yada" and doing twice the speed limit,

yep, right there :roll:

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Re: 168 in 80 on Hwy 118 Muskoka: Paralegal/Lawyer Refereral
PostPosted: Fri Nov 13, 2015 10:48 am 
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bobajob wrote:
yep, right there :roll:
We're you going to help, or do you just have time to troll the comments ?


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Re: 168 in 80 on Hwy 118 Muskoka: Paralegal/Lawyer Refereral
PostPosted: Fri Nov 13, 2015 12:18 pm 
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That is pretty serious charge!

You need to call several (I recommend at least 4 or 5) and talk to them all.

Some lawyers/paralegals are not really interested in getting you off, but will simply try and get you a plea deal for a lower charge. Of course this might be something that you want to consider as you are probably facing an insurance SERIOUS conviction whereas a MAJOR or MINOR would be much preferred!

But regardless, you want somebody to represent you that is willing to discuss possible defenses to actually getting you off. If all they want to do is suggest a plea deal or hope the officer won't show up, then that is not the one you want. They get paid whether they win or lose, so it is up to you try to find a good one!

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Re: 168 in 80 on Hwy 118 Muskoka: Paralegal/Lawyer Refereral
PostPosted: Fri Nov 13, 2015 7:42 pm 
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There is almost a 0% chance of a deal being made on this. Prosecutors may drop a stunt speed if they are over 2 or 3 Km/H maybe even a bit more on a good day, but being over by 68, not going to happen. You will be fighting the stunt charge as laid.


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Re: 168 in 80 on Hwy 118 Muskoka: Paralegal/Lawyer Refereral
PostPosted: Sun Nov 15, 2015 3:30 pm 
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1> Re-read how you have posted ; i.e. the "tone" ; the "yada,yada,yada" is used as a substitute where what you should be explaining is too lengthy or tedious to recite in full, this says a lot to me
if you think a serious charge and it's details are too "tedious" to write,

2> Doing twice the speed limit, on a public highway, was your life at risk? Because you certainly put others at risk, including any LEO's, but of course "we dont know" because the details where obviously
too tedious (i.e too dull: tiresome or monotonous). to explain

Advice here is free and given by people who are not getting paid to do so, taking time out of there busy and sometimes important job roles,
Have some respect for that.

The other posters have given you the advise you need

UnknownStuntMan wrote:
bobajob wrote:
yep, right there :roll:
We're you going to help, or do you just have time to troll the comments ?

_________________
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* NO you cant touch your phone
* Speeding is speeding
* Challenge every ticket
* Impaired driving, you should be locked up UNDER the jail


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Re: 168 in 80 on Hwy 118 Muskoka: Paralegal/Lawyer Refereral
PostPosted: Mon Nov 16, 2015 9:46 am 
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screeech wrote:
There is almost a 0% chance of a deal being made on this. Prosecutors may drop a stunt speed if they are over 2 or 3 Km/H maybe even a bit more on a good day, but being over by 68, not going to happen. You will be fighting the stunt charge as laid.


Reread the original post. It was 88 over, not 68. Really surprised you only got stunt. I'd try to find a lawyer to avoid jailtime.


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Re: 168 in 80 on Hwy 118 Muskoka: Paralegal/Lawyer Refereral
PostPosted: Mon Nov 16, 2015 10:17 am 
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What are the specific charges that you got (section numbers)?

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Re: 168 in 80 on Hwy 118 Muskoka: Paralegal/Lawyer Refereral
PostPosted: Tue Nov 17, 2015 12:45 pm 
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Sorry, I'm not good in math...but that goes to further my position, it will not be dealt away.

Having the car impounded for 7 days leads me to believe it is a stunt charge under Section 172 of the Highway Traffic Act. Chances of getting any jail time, even with a high speed like that, are slim unless there is a big related driving record. The minimum fine is $2000 so you can bet the prosecutor will be asking for more on this one, as well as the possibility of a further licence suspension. And then there is what the insurance company will do...


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Re: 168 in 80 on Hwy 118 Muskoka: Paralegal/Lawyer Refereral
PostPosted: Tue Nov 17, 2015 12:50 pm 
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Yes, most likely there will be no plea deal and prosecutor will seek the maximum sentence/fine.

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Re: 168 in 80 on Hwy 118 Muskoka: Paralegal/Lawyer Refereral
PostPosted: Tue Nov 17, 2015 1:19 pm 
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Max fine is $10,000. Unless the driver has a horrible record, I highly doubt they will get the max, even at that speed.


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Re: 168 in 80: Paralegal/Lawyer Refereral
PostPosted: Tue Nov 17, 2015 9:33 pm 
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jsherk wrote:
What are the specific charges that you got (section numbers)?

Thanks JSherk. Sorry to the others for my brevity. My apologies. The section is 172. (1) - I checked the HTA. It states that "No person shall drive a motor vehicle on a highway in a race or contest, while performing a stunt or on a bet or wager." But, I was alone on the road open road, no one else around. How can this be interpreted as being in a race or contest, performing a stunt" My record has been clean for more than 10 years.
Thanks,


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Re: 168 in 80 on Hwy 118 Muskoka: Paralegal/Lawyer Refereral
PostPosted: Tue Nov 17, 2015 10:00 pm 
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I have never fought a charge this serious before, but here are the points I see that the prosecution has to prove...

(1) Identify you
(2) as the DRIVER
(3) of a MOTOR VEHICLE (as defined by the HTA)
(4) that was on a HIGHWAY (as defined by the HTA)
(5) that you were in a RACE or a CONTEST
(6) and that you were performing a STUNT (or that you there was some kind of BET or WAGER involved).

So you ask a good question of "How can they interpret it as a race or contest and performing a stunt"!

I do not know the answer (yet), but what happens is other people have probably asked that same question and the come to court and challenged it and then it got appealed and some appeal court judge has decided that a certain something specifically "is" or "is not".

So my guess (only a guess right now) is that there are some case laws where a Judge (not a Justice of the Peace) has decided that speeding over a certain amount constitues a "stunt" and also constitutes "racing". If there are case laws that support this, then the prosecution does not have to do much but actually prove your speed and the case law sort of automatically proves the stunt/race part without much effort on the prosecutions part.

Now of course you can always try to challenge these decisions, but you have to have a really great argument AND you have to be really good at presenting the argument as well.

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Re: 168 in 80 on Hwy 118 Muskoka: Paralegal/Lawyer Refereral
PostPosted: Wed Nov 18, 2015 9:10 am 
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They only need to prove speeding by 50Km/H or more over the posted speed limit.


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Re: 168 in 80 on Hwy 118 Muskoka: Paralegal/Lawyer Refereral
PostPosted: Wed Nov 18, 2015 9:18 am 
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@screech - so there is case law saying over 50 is racing and stunt?

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