Stunt Reduced to 15 Over

UnluckyDuck
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Stunt Reduced to 15 Over

by: UnluckyDuck on
Sat Jul 18, 2015 11:28 am

Good Morning Everyone,


So just so happened to be my birthday, as well as my grandmother's funeral today. I currently am still in shock over the passing and sometimes zone out and think to myself. This morning, I didn't happen to pay attention to my speed, and that's when I got clocked. The officer pulled out from a plaza, almost ramming my car, so I pulled to the side, 4 ways on, insurance and license on dash, all windows down, threw the keys out the window and had both hands on the steering wheel. He comes to the vehicle, and says you are being stopped for doing 115 in a 50. At first I was in disbelief because I did not think I was going that fast, but it is a possibility. Anyways, I say very minimal to him so I don't incriminate myself. He takes my info and goes to his car, comes back with a 15 over ticket and explains my options on the back. Now I am very grateful I did not get charged with stunt, but my question is, should I try and request a trial, explain my situation and hope for sympathy, or should I just pay the ticket?

A little background: 2 speeding tickets convicted in July 2011, 1 Admin-Suspension Impared 3 days in March 2015


bend
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by: bend on
Sat Jul 18, 2015 12:59 pm

UnluckyDuck wrote:Now I am very grateful I did not get charged with stunt, but my question is, should I try and request a trial, explain my situation and hope for sympathy, or should I just pay the ticket?
What more are you expecting, really? You can either pay the ticket or take it to trial. If take this to an early resolution meeting, they are not going to entertain the thought of doing anything with this ticket other than scheduling you a trial. They are going to know you were doing 115km.

I'm not even sure what kind of officer reduces a 65km over to 15km over, especially in a 50km zone. Not 49, 29, but 15. It's almost too good to be true.


UnluckyDuck
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by: UnluckyDuck on
Sat Jul 18, 2015 1:29 pm

I guess maybe he saw it was my birthday and decided not to ruin my day? I honestly don't know and I am WILLING TO PAY the ticket. Just all my family is saying to fight it, so I thought I'd come here and get an unbiased opinion on the situation from random strangers. :)


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by: jsherk on
Sat Jul 18, 2015 1:57 pm

I suggest you choose the NOT GUILTY option with a TRIAL with the Officer present.

Once you get your trial date, request disclosure (officers notes and copy of radar/lidar manual).

Once you get disclosure then you can decide whether to fight it further or not. If the officers notes say you were doing 115 in a 50 then if you take the 15 over to trial they will amend the charge up to 65 over at the trial.

15 over is 0 demerit points but can still affect your insurance. However 65 over is quite a bit worse.

Can you post a copy of your ticket (black out any identifying information like name address drivers license number and officers name)?
+++ This is not legal advice, only my opinion +++


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by: argyll on
Sat Jul 18, 2015 7:15 pm

I would be waiting to pay this when the office opens. It's unlikely but while the matter is open it can be amended. See the other topic about a re-opened charge. Who knows why he gave you such a massive break but do you want to risk a supervisor looking at this and having the ticket withdrawn and a summons issued for stunting ? Or by pleading not guilty and having a crown look at it. Either could make this MUCH worse for you. I'd be wrapping this one up ASAP.
Former Ontario Police Officer. Advice will become less relevant as the time goes by !


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Decatur
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by: Decatur on
Sat Jul 18, 2015 8:08 pm

I'd agree with argyll. The more people who see the charge when it's processed, the more likely they may question the 15 over and withdraw the original ticket.


daggx
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by: daggx on
Sat Jul 18, 2015 10:34 pm

Normally I would say challenge everything, but in this case I think it would be better to just pay it off and count it as a lucky break. You won't get a better deal then this and frankly you don't want the prosecutor looking at this case and deciding to withdraw the ticket in favour of a stunt driving charge.


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by: Stanton on
Sat Jul 18, 2015 10:46 pm

I’m kind of in agreement. I normally always suggest pleading not guilty (at least initially) and taking time to review the case against you. The problem in your matter is that once you enter a not guilty plea, a disclosure request is sent off to the charging officer. The disclosure package is then typically reviewed by the officer’s supervisor and then sent off to the Crown’s office where a prosecutor also reviews it.

Normally officer’s exercising discretion on speeding tickets isn’t a big thing, but technically when it comes to stunt driving they’re not supposed to. Whereas most of the HTA states an officer “can” or “may”, the section related to stunt driving reads “shall”. I think there’s a very high chance the officer will be directed by his supervisor and/or Crown to issue you a corrective summons for the full speeding charge plus stunt driving.

It is pretty bizarre however that your ticket was reduced by so much. Perhaps there is some reason the officer feels he couldn’t prove the offence in Court (no radar test?) hence the generous reduction. But it’s a gamble. It would suck to pay the fine and be convicted if you could beat the charge in Court. But it would suck even more if the officer was just being nice and you end up with a stunt driving charge because of it. And just FYI, your personal situation would not be a defence at Court, so if you do go to trial you need an actual defence.


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by: iFly55 on
Sun Jul 19, 2015 12:04 am

This is arguably the only time I would ever recommend paying the fine. The risk of getting a summons for the full +65 in a 50 zone is way too high.

S172 Stunt Driving carries a minimum fine of $2000 up to $10,000; +65 in a 50 zone is guaranteed to have license suspension of up to 2 years; keep in mind, you could also be incarcerated for up to six months. Even though Stunt Driving affords you a due diligence defence, the one you've described here will not help you whatsoever.

I don't believe your family friends fully understand the consequences of proceeding to trial for a +65km/hr in 50 zone charge in Ontario.

Even if the crown wanted to charge you with +65 under S128 that's still $9.75 x 65km/hr + victim surcharge + court fee = $763.75

S128 Speeding is an absolute liability offence in the province of Ontario, the only defence is available is one of necessity.


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by: jsherk on
Sun Jul 19, 2015 9:15 am

I see everybody's point, so I withdraw my advice to plead not guilty and suggest you listen to everybody else.
+++ This is not legal advice, only my opinion +++


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