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Ontario Highway Traffic Act

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Stunt Driving - NEED ADVICE PLEASE
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PostPosted: Tue Dec 06, 2016 11:56 am 
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Joined: Tue Dec 06, 2016 11:51 am
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Hi

I was having a really bad day and was into my thoughts at 10 pm in hwy 7 and did not realize that I was going at about 70 km/h over the speed limit. The police got me and I honestly am still in shock. I really am sorry. I never had any tickets since I got my license in 2011 (am 26 y/o). I need my car to go to work and to go to school. Am not in a very good financial situation. What is my best course of action?

ANY help would be appreciated!


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Re: Stunt Driving - NEED ADVICE PLEASE
PostPosted: Tue Dec 06, 2016 1:01 pm 
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Posts: 474
You where doing a 170kmph, and you didn't realize it ?

did they arrest / impound your car and give you an on the spot suspension

_________________
--------------------------------------------------------------
* NO you cant touch your phone
* Speeding is speeding
* Challenge every ticket
* Impaired driving, you should be locked up UNDER the jail


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Re: Stunt Driving - NEED ADVICE PLEASE
PostPosted: Tue Dec 06, 2016 1:03 pm 
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Joined: Thu Jul 26, 2012 1:18 pm
Posts: 1673
What were you charged with specifically (wording and section number)?

Did you get your car get impounded?

Did you get a NOTICE OF OFFENCE or a SUMMONS for the ticket?

You have the right to see disclosure before you decide how to proceed with the charge, so you should plead NOT GUILTY and request a trial with the officer present. Once you get your Notice of Trial, then you can request disclosure (copy of officers notes, copy of manual for any speed measuring device used). You do not need to pay a paralegal/lawyer to do this step for you. Once you get the officers notes, blank out personal info and post here so we can advise further.

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+++ This is not legal advice, only my opinion +++


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Re: Stunt Driving - NEED ADVICE PLEASE
PostPosted: Tue Dec 06, 2016 1:39 pm 
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Joined: Mon Nov 28, 2016 3:00 pm
Posts: 89
unlucky123 wrote:
Hi

I was having a really bad day and was into my thoughts at 10 pm in hwy 7 and did not realize that I was going at about 70 km/h over the speed limit. The police got me and I honestly am still in shock. I really am sorry. I never had any tickets since I got my license in 2011 (am 26 y/o). I need my car to go to work and to go to school. Am not in a very good financial situation. What is my best course of action?

ANY help would be appreciated!


You have likely been charged under section 172(1) of the HTA:

"172. (1) No person shall drive a motor vehicle on a highway in a race or contest, while performing a stunt or on a bet or wager. 2007, c. 13, s. 21.

Offence
(2) Every person who contravenes subsection (1) is guilty of an offence and on conviction is liable to a fine of not less than $2,000 and not more than $10,000 or to imprisonment for a term of not more than six months, or to both, and in addition his or her driver’s licence may be suspended,

(a) on a first conviction under this section, for not more than two years; or

(b) on a subsequent conviction under this section, for not more than 10 years. 2007, c. 13, s. 21."

These charges can be issued at rates of speed 50 km/h or greater over the posted speed limit. I wrote a blog posting on these offences roughly a month ago that may be of assistance to you.

The offence carries a 6 demerit point penalty. If you have a class 1 or class 2 licence, this may trigger further penalties under escalated sanctions for novice drivers. Generally a conviction under this section will result in no longer being insurable under standard insurance coverage given the serious nature of the offence.

Generally these cases will go through approximately 3 to 5 hearings to resolve at court. Given the serious nature of the offence, you may wish to contact a paralegal to seek out legal representation, or at a minimum some basic information.

_________________
The content of this post is not legal advice. Legal advice can only be provided after a licenced paralegal has been retained, spoken with you directly, and reviewed the documents related to your case.


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Re: Stunt Driving - NEED ADVICE PLEASE
PostPosted: Tue Dec 06, 2016 2:18 pm 
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Joined: Tue Dec 06, 2016 11:51 am
Posts: 8
jsherk wrote:
What were you charged with specifically (wording and section number)?

Did you get your car get impounded?

Did you get a NOTICE OF OFFENCE or a SUMMONS for the ticket?

You have the right to see disclosure before you decide how to proceed with the charge, so you should plead NOT GUILTY and request a trial with the officer present. Once you get your Notice of Trial, then you can request disclosure (copy of officers notes, copy of manual for any speed measuring device used). You do not need to pay a paralegal/lawyer to do this step for you. Once you get the officers notes, blank out personal info and post here so we can advise further.



My driver's license is suspended for 7 days. My car is suspended for 7 says.

I got a notice of offence for January.

So during the summons I should not accept any plea deal?


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Re: Stunt Driving - NEED ADVICE PLEASE
PostPosted: Tue Dec 06, 2016 2:20 pm 
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Joined: Tue Dec 06, 2016 11:51 am
Posts: 8
OTD Legal wrote:
unlucky123 wrote:
Hi

I was having a really bad day and was into my thoughts at 10 pm in hwy 7 and did not realize that I was going at about 70 km/h over the speed limit. The police got me and I honestly am still in shock. I really am sorry. I never had any tickets since I got my license in 2011 (am 26 y/o). I need my car to go to work and to go to school. Am not in a very good financial situation. What is my best course of action?

ANY help would be appreciated!


You have likely been charged under section 172(1) of the HTA:

"172. (1) No person shall drive a motor vehicle on a highway in a race or contest, while performing a stunt or on a bet or wager. 2007, c. 13, s. 21.

Offence
(2) Every person who contravenes subsection (1) is guilty of an offence and on conviction is liable to a fine of not less than $2,000 and not more than $10,000 or to imprisonment for a term of not more than six months, or to both, and in addition his or her driver’s licence may be suspended,

(a) on a first conviction under this section, for not more than two years; or

(b) on a subsequent conviction under this section, for not more than 10 years. 2007, c. 13, s. 21."

These charges can be issued at rates of speed 50 km/h or greater over the posted speed limit. I wrote a blog posting on these offences roughly a month ago that may be of assistance to you.

The offence carries a 6 demerit point penalty. If you have a class 1 or class 2 licence, this may trigger further penalties under escalated sanctions for novice drivers. Generally a conviction under this section will result in no longer being insurable under standard insurance coverage given the serious nature of the offence.

Generally these cases will go through approximately 3 to 5 hearings to resolve at court. Given the serious nature of the offence, you may wish to contact a paralegal to seek out legal representation, or at a minimum some basic information.



So you are saying that there is no hope for me to get something reduced?


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Re: Stunt Driving - NEED ADVICE PLEASE
PostPosted: Tue Dec 06, 2016 2:21 pm 
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Joined: Tue Dec 06, 2016 11:51 am
Posts: 8
bobajob wrote:
You where doing a 170kmph, and you didn't realize it ?

did they arrest / impound your car and give you an on the spot suspension



I was going 70kmph OVER the speed limit. The posted speed was 80 and I was driving at around 150 kmph.

Yes they did.


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Re: Stunt Driving - NEED ADVICE PLEASE
PostPosted: Tue Dec 06, 2016 2:33 pm 
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Joined: Mon Nov 28, 2016 3:00 pm
Posts: 89
unlucky123 wrote:
So you are saying that there is no hope for me to get something reduced?


No. There is always hope for a legal argument before trial or at trial to be found to have the offence thrown out. However, those issues will come out of what the Crown has or has not got to work with after receiving a disclosure of their evidence. Your rate of speed is a very high one, even by the standards of Stunt Driving charges. It is not completely unheard of to get a reduction to a lesser offence in such a profile of case, but it will be heavily dependent upon which Crown is involved and the quality of their case. As a worse-case scenario, it would likely be possible to damage control the court penalties to not create an undue hardship upon you.

_________________
The content of this post is not legal advice. Legal advice can only be provided after a licenced paralegal has been retained, spoken with you directly, and reviewed the documents related to your case.


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Re: Stunt Driving - NEED ADVICE PLEASE
PostPosted: Tue Dec 06, 2016 2:45 pm 
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Newbie

Joined: Tue Dec 06, 2016 11:51 am
Posts: 8
OTD Legal wrote:
unlucky123 wrote:
So you are saying that there is no hope for me to get something reduced?


No. There is always hope for a legal argument before trial or at trial to be found to have the offence thrown out. However, those issues will come out of what the Crown has or has not got to work with after receiving a disclosure of their evidence. Your rate of speed is a very high one, even by the standards of Stunt Driving charges. It is not completely unheard of to get a reduction to a lesser offence in such a profile of case, but it will be heavily dependent upon which Crown is involved and the quality of their case. As a worse-case scenario, it would likely be possible to damage control the court penalties to not create an undue hardship upon you.



So what I should do is to go the summons, plead not guilty and then request for disclosure? I am totally new to these legal activities so any clarification or advice is appreciated.


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Re: Stunt Driving - NEED ADVICE PLEASE
PostPosted: Tue Dec 06, 2016 3:00 pm 
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Joined: Sun Apr 27, 2014 10:21 am
Posts: 474
........and you didn't realize you where doing 150, then, just under double the speed limit
we all drive on this board, I've had some pretty fast performance vehicles
and to say I didn't realize I was doing twice the limit or nearly 150, doesn't jive

I can see people wondering 10-20 over, in inadvertently, but you put your foot down or left it down to get those kinda speeds
I've driven Porsche's and BMW's that get up to speed pretty quickly, so I know.
and if... your driving that fast and you don't even know it and "that" deep in thought , then your absolutely a danger to both yourself and other road users.

My words may sound harsh but killing someones wife/children or knowing that Daddy isnt coming home isnt a joke.

You've also got some pretty good advise here, which I can't add to

unlucky123 wrote:
bobajob wrote:
You where doing a 170kmph, and you didn't realize it ?

did they arrest / impound your car and give you an on the spot suspension



I was going 70kmph OVER the speed limit. The posted speed was 80 and I was driving at around 150 kmph.

Yes they did.

_________________
--------------------------------------------------------------
* NO you cant touch your phone
* Speeding is speeding
* Challenge every ticket
* Impaired driving, you should be locked up UNDER the jail


Top
 Profile  
 
Re: Stunt Driving - NEED ADVICE PLEASE
PostPosted: Tue Dec 06, 2016 3:04 pm 
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High Authority

Joined: Thu Jul 26, 2012 1:18 pm
Posts: 1673
At the summons date, you will want to talk to prosecutor.

If they offer you a deal for Speeding 49 over, then you should probably take that and run. Here is why...

49 over speeding is usually just a MINOR conviction with most insurance companies (possibly small increase), although some may consider it a MAJOR (possibly a larger increase).
On the other hand, stunt driving and/or 50+over speeding is usually considered a SERIOUS conviction with most insurance comapanies and your insurance will sky rocket (like 10x).

If you think you have a good defense and can beat the charge then there is no reason to take a plea deal. However, considering the options if you lose (SERIOUS conviction with HUGE insurance increase), a plea at 49 over speeding might be your best option.

The prosecutor has no obligation to offer you a plea deal, so if they do not offer you anything, or you do not like what they offer you, then you should plead not guilty and request disclosure and a trial.

_________________
+++ This is not legal advice, only my opinion +++


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Re: Stunt Driving - NEED ADVICE PLEASE
PostPosted: Tue Dec 06, 2016 3:08 pm 
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Joined: Tue Dec 06, 2016 11:51 am
Posts: 8
bobajob wrote:
........and you didn't realize you where doing 150, then, just under double the speed limit
we all drive on this board, I've had some pretty fast performance vehicles
and to say I didn't realize I was doing twice the limit or nearly 150, doesn't jive

I can see people wondering 10-20 over, in inadvertently, but you put your foot down or left it down to get those kinda speeds
I've driven Porsche's and BMW's that get up to speed pretty quickly, so I know.
and if... your driving that fast and you don't even know it and "that" deep in thought , then your absolutely a danger to both yourself and other road users.

My words may sound harsh but killing someones wife/children or knowing that Daddy isnt coming home isnt a joke.

You've also got some pretty good advise here, which I can't add to

unlucky123 wrote:
bobajob wrote:
You where doing a 170kmph, and you didn't realize it ?

did they arrest / impound your car and give you an on the spot suspension



I was going 70kmph OVER the speed limit. The posted speed was 80 and I was driving at around 150 kmph.

Yes they did.



Did I, in any part of my posts, said that what I did is ok? I am going to accept the consequences and will not do this again as this is NOT my habit of driving yet I made the mistake and am gonna pay the price. I am just asking for some advice as this is my very first time to even be pulled over.

Thanks for your comment but if I didn't have anything to say, then I would not even reply.

Have a good day!


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Re: Stunt Driving - NEED ADVICE PLEASE
PostPosted: Tue Dec 06, 2016 3:21 pm 
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Newbie

Joined: Tue Dec 06, 2016 11:51 am
Posts: 8
jsherk wrote:
At the summons date, you will want to talk to prosecutor.

If they offer you a deal for Speeding 49 over, then you should probably take that and run. Here is why...

49 over speeding is usually just a MINOR conviction with most insurance companies (possibly small increase), although some may consider it a MAJOR (possibly a larger increase).
On the other hand, stunt driving and/or 50+over speeding is usually considered a SERIOUS conviction with most insurance comapanies and your insurance will sky rocket (like 10x).

If you think you have a good defense and can beat the charge then there is no reason to take a plea deal. However, considering the options if you lose (SERIOUS conviction with HUGE insurance increase), a plea at 49 over speeding might be your best option.

The prosecutor has no obligation to offer you a plea deal, so if they do not offer you anything, or you do not like what they offer you, then you should plead not guilty and request disclosure and a trial.


Oh now I understand. You get convicted when you go to trial and lose? So if they don't offer me anything is in my best interest to just plead guilty since getting convicted is huge?


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Re: Stunt Driving - NEED ADVICE PLEASE
PostPosted: Tue Dec 06, 2016 3:33 pm 
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High Authority

Joined: Thu Jul 26, 2012 1:18 pm
Posts: 1673
If you just plead guilty then you will be convicted, which is the same as going to trial and losing.

So no, it is not better to just plead guilty. You might as well go to trial and TRY to beat it, versus just pleading guilty to the charge.

However, if they offer you a deal (like 49 over speeding) then you may want to take this deal and plead guilty to the deal (not the original charge) as this is only a MINOR/MAJOR for insurance purposes.

Remember though that if they offer you a deal for say "50 to 69" over speeding, this is still considered a serious offence and may not be a benefit for you to accept. The magic number to remember is "49 over speeding".

So at the summons:
- If they offer you 49 over speeding, you may want to consider accepting this and pleading guilty.
- If they offer you something higher like 50+ over, or make no offer at all, then you may want to ask for disclosure and a trial date and seek legal help.

_________________
+++ This is not legal advice, only my opinion +++


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Re: Stunt Driving - NEED ADVICE PLEASE
PostPosted: Tue Dec 06, 2016 5:08 pm 
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Jr. Member

Joined: Mon Nov 28, 2016 3:00 pm
Posts: 89
unlucky123 wrote:
So what I should do is to go the summons, plead not guilty and then request for disclosure? I am totally new to these legal activities so any clarification or advice is appreciated.


In contesting the offence you have two options. to either self-represent if you feel comfortable and capable in doing so or to retain a paralegal. A licenced paralegal will represent you at court, prepare and serve any documents related to your case, and keep you informed to make intelligent decisions as your case progresses through the court. Unfortunately, Stunt Driving charges carry some of the most severe penalties possible under the Highway Traffic Act. These are cases that are best resolved with a licenced and experienced paralegal representing the Defendant. For minor part 1 offences, usually the worse-case scenario for poorly self-representing at court are a handful of demerit points and a minor fine. In the case of Stunt Driving offences, the total payable fine begins at $2,500 and caps at $12,500 along with other potential court penalties and the reasonable expectation of of no longer being insurable under a standard insurance policy.

_________________
The content of this post is not legal advice. Legal advice can only be provided after a licenced paralegal has been retained, spoken with you directly, and reviewed the documents related to your case.


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