I KNEW IT!!...

Mankind makes amazing discovery!!

And thats one for the good guys........yup that there is Bear bait

Right...probably the same journalist that thinks all high speeders are racers too!!

Have to step back on any newspaper article and reflect what the reporter `wants`you to think.

(ie...last spring....front page last spring....owner of a business standing in front of construction equipment on a major artery in town......title was something like `Construction cost business man money``.........ok it was a 4 lane area......now it is 5 lanes (centre turn lane) all pipes replaced at same time....no follow up article that business is back to normal, increase in traffic.....I know many people that now frequent that area as there is no longer congestion)

Interesting, but Is there a link to this article???

Here's what I think:

Slower may not always be safer, while Speeding may not always kill.

The rate of deaths increase significantly in accidents that involve high speed crashes.

There are very few documented cases if any that show Slow speed accidents that caused death.

Book, r those your hands.....you should model

But I thought TV "cured" you!

Reflections wrote:

Book, r those your hands.....you should model

Can't type, still laughing!!!

Those really are some sexy hands

I did some CSI on the image and recovered the text of the article:

Ontario and Quebec now require electronic speed limiters on large trucks, but other provinces are rejecting the concept, saying the devices can sometimes actually make roads less safe.

Even a study commissioned by the federal government has concluded there are safety questions about speed limiters, especially in heavy traffic.

"As the (traffic) volume is set close to capacity ... more vehicle interactions take place and this leads to a reduction in safety especially for those segments with increased merging and lane-change activity, such as on- and off-ramp segments,'' reads the report prepared last year for Transport Canada by the University of Waterloo.

"In these instances, the introduction of truck speed limiters can actually reduce the level of safety when compared to the non-limiter case.''

The study was one of several commissioned by the federal department at a time when Ottawa and the provinces were talking about establishing national rules for truck speed limits.

Ontario and Quebec decided to proceed on their own and now require tractor-trailers to be equipped with engine microchips that prevent vehicles from going faster than 105 kilometres an hour.

The federal studies touted several benefits. Speed limiters would reduce fuel consumption, thereby saving diesel costs and cutting greenhouse gas emissions. Slower trucks would also make for safer roads, such as on four- or six-lane highways when traffic is light or moderate.

But most other provinces balked at the spectre of having slow trucks and fast-moving cars battling for space on crowded freeways or undivided rural highways.

"Most of the traffic already goes well above 110 ... to limit trucks to even less than that and to impede traffic more would probably be a safety problem,'' says Jerry Bellikka, spokesman for the Alberta Ministry of Transportation.

The Manitoba government considers the federal studies too narrow because they focused on multi-lane freeways and not undivided highways.

"There's a safety issue related to...the ability of one truck to pass another truck safely with speed limiters on a two-lane road,'' says John Spacek, an assistant deputy minister in Manitoba's Department of Infrastructure and Transportation.

However, supporters of speed limiters stand behind their safety claims, insisting that basic logic dictates that slower speeds save lives.

The Ontario government points out that federal studies identified only a potential safety problem and the province remains "confident that reducing maximum truck speeds will improve safety,'' Transportation ministry spokesman Bob Nichols wrote in an e-mail.

Do we have two-lane roads here with a limit of more than 90 km/h?

ticketcombat wrote:

Reflections wrote:

Book, r those your hands.....you should model

Can't type, still laughing!!!

THen your post should look like this: lkdfnvwwvbsnjgnrgklsnwejtlkrnnfgnvsljknvlfkjnvdlkfvfdlkn

"As the (traffic) volume is set close to capacity ... more vehicle interactions take place and this leads to a reduction in safety especially for those segments with increased merging and lane-change activity, such as on- and off-ramp segments,'' reads the report prepared last year for Transport Canada by the University of Waterloo.

Interesting, but how was a study conducted without speed limiter law in affect, ever be accurate? I can see the before study and then do one after ....with 2 equal segments of time during the same month of the following year.

And not necessarily lane speed limiters is the the problem....it is said above with lane changes near ramps. If the hwy is near capacity....build it wider.

Reflections wrote:

Book, r those your hands.....you should model

We better hope the "Price is Right" doesn't see that....Bookm might be replacing one of the models on the show at least on hand gestures

hwybear wrote:

And not necessarily lane speed limiters is the the problem....it is said above with lane changes near ramps. If the hwy is near capacity....build it wider.

Or teach people how to merge properly.

I have had people honk at me after they tried to mate with the side of my car, because they're too afraid to floor it to get up to 100 km/h on the on-ramp. Loaded big rigs are another story though - I always move over or slow down to flash them in, because most of them won't even break 80 by the end of the ramp.

And it's interesting that Alberta's Ministry of Transportation will acknowledge that highway speeds are well in excess of 110 km/h, along with suggesting that vehicles doing 100 km/h are a hazard - why hasn't the speed limit been raised? Put the limit at 120 km/h, limit the trucks to 125 km/h. Everybody happy?

Squishy wrote:

And it's interesting that Alberta's Ministry of Transportation will acknowledge that highway speeds are well in excess of 110 km/h, along with suggesting that vehicles doing 100 km/h are a hazard - why hasn't the speed limit been raised? Put the limit at 120 km/h, limit the trucks to 125 km/h. Everybody happy?

Limit everyone to 120km and be done with it!

Probably a good idea for the roads based on the general level of driver education, but that screws over all the street-legal cars that participate in sanctioned races. It'll be too complicated and likely too expensive to put in something like the GT-R limiter that gets turned off when the GPS hits a race track.

We can set the limit at something most of us are happy with, then bring back photo radar set to 5% tolerance for speedometer error. Then the OPP can focus on things other than speeding, like not signalling lane changes or tailgating.

Or we can study the German licensing system and truly make driving a privelege. Then we can make the 400-series into our own Autobahns.

Squishy wrote:

Or we can study the German licensing system and truly make driving a privelege. Then we can make the 400-series into our own Autobahns.

That I could support. Unfortunately, I think you know how much of a chance that has of occurring in Ontario in our lifetimes...

Hahahaha the autobhan on the 401.

What a joke.

This is very possible outside the GTA and maybee inside in off Peak times. I think this is unrealistic.

People have NO LANE discipline in Ontario. Once we have this you can do that.

Secondly something that puzzles me since day one maybee hwybear knows is why do all 400 series highways have that same limit of 100 for all times of the day. Clearly there is parts that can handle more than that at off peak times. I mean go drive to montreal at 3 am and tell me 100 is to fast.....

Not all highways should have no posted speed limit all though there is many sections pending that should not have one or simply alot higher then it is.

I think 110-130 On sections of the 401 that need limit should be imposed. Lane discipline should be a serious offense. On some sections of highway in Ontario pending on the time perhaps electronic signs there should be a recommended limit of 120-130 that is "recommended or uninforced."

Atleast this would give the cops also a chance to catch the real speeders and the ones with no lane discipline would stick out like a sore thumb.

But trying to make an autobhan system or raising limits today would not turn out to well in my opinion especially in congested areas.

We should also get rid of those high occupancy lanes. No one uses them. It also merges with the fast lane and is not according to the flow of traffic. On the 403 this would help traffic move better.

We also need back those big signs that say MOVE RIGHT EXCEPT TO PASS.

Maybee it should also say.

"Move Right except to pass.2000-10000 $ fine. License suspension......"

Slowing the trucks will make it worse. Thats a given. If your gonna mess and slow down the flow of traffic people will not slow down. They're will be more aggressive driving, passing on the right, and racing through traffic.

Those big coach buses and those carrying trailers should also not be in the left lane. They cause traffic backups and are moving road blocks. They really make some drivers upset. Like some of those that park their pickup in the left lane at 119 on cruise control towing a boat.....

I am not saying all highways should have no speed limit of course not. But i am saying alot of ours are to low to begin with, and some highways need different limits then other highways. Some can handle higher speeds while some should be reduced.

A uniform limit on all 400 series highways makes no sense, it makes no sense because they all have different conditions at different times.

Why not have signs saying "SLOWER TRAFFIC MOVE TO THE RIGHT. 4pts, $1000 fine." Would also work like a charm no?

racer wrote:

Why not have signs saying "SLOWER TRAFFIC MOVE TO THE RIGHT. 4pts, $1000 fine." Would also work like a charm no?

"Hey I'm not slow, screw you, sign!"

tdrive2 wrote:

People have NO LANE discipline in Ontario. Once we have this you can do that.

I absolutely agree and that's why I said to study the German licensing system. The problem is that the HTA does not specifically address lane discipline as it would apply to a 6-lane highway. Sections 147 and 148 (I think those are the ones) say that a) you must move right if overtaken, and b) you must keep right if you are slower than the flow of traffic. In the following scenario, which section(s) would you be violating?

-four-lane highway, two in each direction

-vehicle in the right lane is travelling at the speed limit

-you take the left lane and drive side-by-side with the other vehicle

--You're not being passed, and you are establishing the flow of traffic. Technically that falls under 'stunting', but wow, harsh punishment.

There's another section around there (150?) that specifically allows passing on the right. I'd like to see a new law saying something like you must move to the right if you are not passing another vehicle for 50 m or more, and there is a vehicle directly behind you. Also disallow passing on the right unless the vehicle is preparing for a left turn. Hey Government Guys, read our posts!

tdrive2 wrote:

Secondly something that puzzles me since day one maybee hwybear knows is why do all 400 series highways have that same limit of 100 for all times of the day. Clearly there is parts that can handle more than that at off peak times. I mean go drive to montreal at 3 am and tell me 100 is to fast.....

Some states have separate day and night limits, as well as a truck limit. However, the night limit is slower than the day limit. I could see some very well-lit areas of the 401 being raised to 120 km/h at night, but outside of that the risk is too high. Plus, if you can do 120 km/h at night, you can do it during the day as well. When traffic volume increases, that speed will naturally decrease due to congestion (caused in large part by human error, but that's another rant).

tdrive2 wrote:

Secondly something that puzzles me since day one maybee hwybear knows is why do all 400 series highways have that same limit of 100 for all times of the day. Clearly there is parts that can handle more than that at off peak times. I mean go drive to montreal at 3 am and tell me 100 is to fast......

Thats an easy one my friend.

Unlike the daily people here with the right intentions.......

A tonne, a *EDIT* load, a majority.....plainly just can not drive properly at 100km/hr (lane changes, signals, following etc...) add in so many G2 drivers (little to no experience) and then allow them to go faster = recipe for disaster.

Solve the immature, inexperienced, fail to obey common courtesy ways of driving and sure we could readjust the limit.

Or put another driving restriction requiring pass a course, testing to be allowed on the 400 series hwys, and that will give you a higher class of licence. Could make it a licence with "4" restriction (ie G4, M4, A4) allowing someone to operate on 400 series highways......it's too late for that anyway....but then how to monitor out of province drivers?

Just back from a couple days R&R in Niagara Falls. Let me tell ya, the speeds on the 2 lanes of QEW between St. Catherines and Hamilton are much higher than the 27 lanes of 401 west of Toronto. There were several cars clearly above 140... above 150 for a few. Left lane slugs were prominent there too. It was quite a site to see the snake-like line of cars neander around the smucks.

Decided to link to the full topic pic in a desperate attempt to distract readers from my incredibly attractive hands, LMAO!

http://img509.imageshack.us/img509/2543/paper4.jpg

Your expression in the picture makes it look like that one headline undid a whole season of TV rehab. WHAT WOULD CAM SAY?!

People on the QEW and 400 know that the police can't reasonably set up a speed trap in safety so they floor it. Good example on the QEW is right near the Burlington Skyway: No police, no place they could set up, so people go as fast as they want. 150 km/h is still fairly common there. And the 400... good luck ever slowing that road down. Mid-afternoon today I got on the 400 southbound and right near Steeles got passed by someone who was doing about 200 km/h.

Book, did you take that photo after the R&R... housecoat and all.....wait those robes are white....Any one ever say you look like Jeff Foxworthy?

Stop me if you heard this one: You might be a redneck if you ever won an online driving competition......J/K

radar identified you seem to know your roads.

Every time i enter the 400 i am amazed but someone going some crazy speed.

The QEW your right is very hard to set up radar traps. That detachment in Mississauga spends most of their time on the 403 looking for speeders and sometimes they go on the 401 i rarely see them by the QEW.

The QEW is so tight and packed and it is widened to the max with construction there is no room to sit with lidar or anything.

There is some parts of the 401 that are not commonly patrolled and let me tell you there can be some intense trips along it especially when traffic is medium to heavy.

I always wondered what it is with the 400. Is it cause its between 4-5 lanes and its brand new pavement with wide lanes and that concrete center median that people seem to think it is a airport run way?

Atleast people on this road seem to follow lane discipline. Hell you better or your gonna have someone crash into you going over 170 haha.

Although the 401 is interesting. There seems to be alot of people who just want to go fast and those people that try to enforce the limit and plug other people. The 401 can get really intense. People have long distances to go and some of those trucks get very aggressive when they get slowed down. I find the 401 particularly bad because alot of people will push the flow of traffic over 130 then you have tons following along them and when they encounter slower drivers who don't want to let them pass it gets really aggressive.

I still love the 400, it moves fast, has better lane discipline, and i like to put down my window and hear the echo and the boom of people just flooring it down the left lane

Is it just me or around the GTA the officers seem to drive very fast? I don't see many speed traps during the week. I see officers all the time cruising between 120-130.

Whats with highway 400? I remember Jim Kenzie wrote an article about how much people speed on there he was saying it seems your gonna get caught only if you decide to cross 170. I never believed it until i got on there a few times recently and im telling you the speeds on the 400 are unreal.

It's my guess just north of Toronto there is so many lanes on this road and it allows the flow of traffic to climb up really high, doesnt look like an easy place to set up radar traps. Concrete center median along with 4 or 5 lanes in some places makes lidar from the shoulder with medium to heavy traffic hard to do?

What is the 407 like? I heard it flows really fast on there. Alot of wealthy people with expensive rides that pay alot of money to miss the traffic and like to floor it...

Does TPS patrol the Gardner and the Don Valley Parkway or is that the Toronto OPP detachments job?

What is the 407 like? I heard it flows really fast on there. Alot of wealthy people with expensive rides that pay alot of money to miss the traffic and like to floor it...

There was a week there that I saw an officer with "customer" 3 times, they were in the east bound lanes. The flow is fast east of the 401 split...4 lanes each way...around the 410 it opens up to 5 lanes...all the openness really hides the feeling of speed, same as the 400

The oddest thing about the 400 is the phantom traffic jams. Trucks get slowed down from the big hills and start to have elephant races holding up two lanes of traffic. So the guys a few kilometres down the highway get stuck in a jam which mysteriously clears up as we near the hill.

The 400 is fast, but it doesn't feel unsafe until you get near Toronto. That's when the laid-back drivers from rural Ontario meet the aggressive Toronto drivers. At the north end, Highway 11 after it splits off from the 400 could use some more enforcement. It's a 90 km/h road with shop and house driveways opening up onto it, but people treat it as if it was still the 400. Speeds are usually 120 on there with the left lane being "unlimited", and I have actually been honked at for going 90 km/h in the right-hand lane by a truck with Quebec plates. I gave him an earful through my CB and e-mailed his boss.

tdrive2 wrote:

radar identified you seem to know your roads.

I get around the city. As to your question regarding why the 400 is fast... my take is that the 400 is fast because it is a wide road, it is straight, the sightlines are good, and most of the people who use it on a regular basis are long-distance commuters who get stuck in traffic jams regularly, ie. people who would be more likely to be aggressive. On top of that, it is the road to cottage country, and during holiday weekends people going on vacation totally lose their minds. Remember all those stories Cam Woolley was telling before Julian Fantino banned him? All of them were from the 400.

Don Valley Parkway and the Gardiner Expressway are TPS patrolled. Actually TPS Traffic Services has the Highway Patrol unit which is assigned to the DVP and Gardiner, although they handle other duties as well. [/quote]

I like your theories. I agree with you on the 400.

The QEW is neat i find its alot of people late for work and start to push the flow of traffic up there.

The 403 is a weird road. The traffic is either flowing extremely slow or the left lane literally gets to unlimited speeds.

401 drivers are funny Youll notice in the parts that are not near detachments people tend to drive really aggressive. I think the 401 is a big problem because some people want to take their time and others have no patience. They have a long way to go and have no time going 130-140. When it can happen i have seen the flow of traffic get to 140 on the 401 alot. People on this road seem to mean business though.

There is some REALLY aggressive truckers on the 401 lately. Some of them get infuriated when people block their passing lane.

I like the 400 thought it seems about one of the only roads you can sit back drive at a good speed and don't have to pass everyone to do so.

I have had some intense drives on the 401. People seem to speed ALOT and when they encounter slower traffic they get mad. Although on this road there is some really ignorant drivers that will plug up alot of traffic.

Actually i find where it gets bad is just before you enter kitchener when you go down the hill sometimes EVERYONE will slam on their brakes cause they see a cruiser. This can get really dangerous when suddenly people are driving between 125-140 then it changes to 115-110 in a matter of seconds. People seem to freak out when they see a cruiser parked on the side without lights on.

tdrive2 wrote:

Actually i find where it gets bad is just before you enter kitchener when you go down the hill sometimes EVERYONE will slam on their brakes cause they see a cruiser.

Erm, 401 never enters Kitchener... The 85 coming north from 401 does. You must mean Cambridge, which the 401 barely grazes.