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Ontario Highway Traffic Act

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PostPosted: Tue Feb 24, 2009 9:01 am 
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The handheld units (lidar,radar) are impossible to leave it in transmitting mode.....even the old dinosaur MuniQuip T3, had to pull the trigger. The reading notes and obtaining reading in your scenario is impossible.

Now about that "fuzz buster" ..... :lol:

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PostPosted: Tue Feb 24, 2009 12:20 pm 
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Quote:
The reading notes and obtaining reading in your scenario is impossible.


What about C/O?? They do still have them in use........and I never said "fuzz buster",
Quote:
I'm sure there will be a posting on the 'ol Radar Detector Forum...

"Got stopped by the OPP today, they have this fancy new gizmo called "My Eyes" :o "

http://forums.blueline.ca/viewtopic.php?f=15&t=12556&st=0&sk=t&sd=a&start=30 and my eyes are good....... :shock:

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Last edited by Reflections on Wed Feb 25, 2009 7:13 pm, edited 3 times in total.

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PostPosted: Tue Feb 24, 2009 3:18 pm 
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hwybear wrote:
I would only issue an offence notice if I believe there are grounds for a successful conviction of the charge. I have never issued an offence without grounds, hence never to an innocent person.


If there were a mechanism to check if you are right or not there would be no trials. The longer people do the right thing or the wrong thing the more they believe that they are in fact right and the less open minded they are. For a long time in Europe all the radars have a video screen, no need to prove much, the video recording will show exactly who the laser hit.

You are still not telling what instructions are there for the use of the moving radar. It is clear for me now that you have to shoot a moving car from a laser gun and can't just leave it on, that's why they call them target specific. What abou the moving ones? How credible are these in courts these days?


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PostPosted: Tue Feb 24, 2009 4:11 pm 
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Reflections wrote:
What about C/O??


what is C/O?

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PostPosted: Tue Feb 24, 2009 4:30 pm 
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shmeli wrote:
If there were a mechanism to check if you are right or not there would be no trials.

You would not believe how many trials I have had for speeding and I have seen for speeding. Probably 99% of the trials, people have absolutely no clue how radar works. They do not realize on a daily basis "police are looking for speeders" where majority of drivers don't look for the police, by the time they realize it that is a police car, they have already been clocked, then brake.....then look at their speedometer.....and it is always...."when I saw the officer".

It becomes rather comical when I sit x-ways, plain view and use lidar, most vehicles don't slow down until 200m or closer, some often go by with their hand on the steering wheel, and do the ole hand lift to check their speed as they are going past the nose of the cruiser, yeah that's when I'm clocking the vehicle :roll:

Quote:
For a long time in Europe all the radars have a video screen, no need to prove much, the video recording will show exactly who the laser hit.

you are mentioning 2 different types of units there....which is it?

Quote:
You are still not telling what instructions are there for the use of the moving radar. It is clear for me now that you have to shoot a moving car from a laser gun and can't just leave it on, that's why they call them target specific. What abou the moving ones? How credible are these in courts these days?

Again you are mentioning 2 totally different types of units.
1) LIDAR - must be used in stationary mode only
2) RADAR - can be used in stationary or moving mode.
Both are accurate.
Moving radar instructions?

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PostPosted: Tue Feb 24, 2009 10:41 pm 
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hwybear wrote:
Reflections wrote:
What about C/O??


what is C/O?


Constantly on.... I was chatting with an officer friend one day and his radar would get one speed, then another, then another. Now, he couldn't track the vehicles and we were talking hockey...... but he kept getting readings, so the unit was constantly transmitting.

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PostPosted: Tue Feb 24, 2009 11:01 pm 
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Reflections wrote:
hwybear wrote:
Reflections wrote:
What about C/O??


what is C/O?


Constantly on.... I was chatting with an officer friend one day and his radar would get one speed, then another, then another. Now, he couldn't track the vehicles and we were talking hockey...... but he kept getting readings, so the unit was constantly transmitting.


Alrighty then....never heard of that phrase before.....only instant on.
Never will I let the unit transmit constantly, I do not want to give the radar detector people the heads up that I am close.....want to pick them off too :D

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PostPosted: Tue Feb 24, 2009 11:50 pm 
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hey hwybear few questions.

OPP use Decatur genesis II i have seen it almost all cars. Along with the spectre 4/5 RDD's.

So the Decatur is a Kband always on radar. I noticed it has a front, rear, and patrol speed so the officer can get you without using a gun. So to clarify that means if you are racing up behind him in the left lane he can get your speed? And if you were racing away in front of him he could clock you to?

And this is Kband correct and not laser? Also is this radar "always on"???

Secondly i saw another detachment around the GTA, he was parked at the side of the road. As i was getting off i saw he had some kind of gun on his shoulder.

I am guessing this is LASER. After words i looked it up and it seemed to be one of those Ultralyte laser hand held guns.

The dectaur the officer sets a patrol speed. Lets say he puts 125 on and it will tell him if it picks up anything over that????

Also is this one always on and is K band or Ka band????

Secondly with the Ultralyte guns are they laser or kband???

I am sure a smart officer must loves these guns as anyone with a RD he can just turn it on instant and a radar detector would be useless. But with the Decatur i am sure they work quite well if its always on sending out the K band.

So my question is also are these vehicle specific? With a laser gun he looks in and points. But with a Decatur how can you be sure he got only your car????

Are all hand held's laser?

Also another problem i see is how far is the Decatur actually reliable to?
What if it was really far away in rainy weather and some guy cut in front of you going way faster he catches up and mistakes that guy with you?

Not trying to cause trouble but with the costs of speeding tickets in this province you really want to be sure they're is no chance.

I dont know if this is a rumor or not. I have heard an officer can give you a ticket without using a device to measure your speed???

If so lets say the officer gives me a ticket for 32 over??? How can he not be sure i was 29 over? This is the difference between an extra demerit point insurance increase. So how can one give tickets without being 100 % sure you were going that speed. How can an officer just "estimate" your speed and give you a fine based on this?

Lets say you were going 55 over. How can he be sure it wasn't 49 over??? This is a massive difference. I would feel terrible giving some poor guy a ticket for something he didnt do. I cant imagine telling someone they went 52 over toe they're car, leave them at the side of the road, massive fines, what if i clocked him and he went 48 over. All i am saying is how is this done because its one thing to ticket but i sure hope these guns are all valid, tested, and very accurate.

I know in real life most officers give some leaway such as 5 over for this kind of thing which is very fair.


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PostPosted: Wed Feb 25, 2009 2:22 am 
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hwybear wrote:
They do not realize on a daily basis "police are looking for speeders" where majority of drivers don't look for the police, by the time they realize it that is a police car, they have already been clocked, then brake.....then look at their speedometer.....and it is always...."when I saw the officer".


Sorta like the thought process of many drivers, where they think the first moment the cop sees them is when they see the cop... Most drivers don't look far down the road, instead are only focused within 100-200 feet, even at high speeds. I know this because, every time I drive through the Ridgetown to Chatham stretch of the 401, I see OPP cruisers parked in plain view, and half the time I witness someone just blow right by them, only braking when they're just about right next to the cop car. Yeah... like the cop didn't have you in the lidar sights about 20 or 30 seconds earlier. :roll:

hwybear wrote:
do the ole hand lift to check their speed


Hand lift to check speed, eh? Must be driving with the hand at the 12 o'clock position... watch what happens when the airbag deploys...


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PostPosted: Wed Feb 25, 2009 7:46 pm 
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Holy questions batman :lol: I will try my best to answer, although I have to go to sleep in 5 hrs :D

tdrive2 wrote:
OPP use Decatur genesis II i have seen it almost all cars. Along with the spectre 4/5 RDD's.

Moving: (these can all be used stationary, but are specific to which direction the car is in....to front or rear)
Decatur Genesis II, Genesis II Select, Genesis II Directional (K band)
Spectre 1, 2 and 3
Stalker DSR 2X Directional (Ka band)

Stationary: Handheld
Radar: Genesis VP, Genesis VP Directional (k band)
Lidar: Marksman LTI 20-20, Laser Atlanta Speed Laser
- I have not seen Ultralyte lidar for 6-7 years.

Quote:
So the Decatur is a Kband always on radar.

yes k band, NO it is not always on

Quote:
I noticed it has a front, rear, and patrol speed so the officer can get you without using a gun. So to clarify that means if you are racing up behind him in the left lane he can get your speed? And if you were racing away in front of him he could clock you to?

Yes

Quote:
And this is Kband correct and not laser? Also is this radar "always on"???

k band is different than lidar, no not always on

Quote:
The dectaur the officer sets a patrol speed. Lets say he puts 125 on and it will tell him if it picks up anything over that????

Can not set a patrol speed.

Quote:
So my question is also are these vehicle specific? With a laser gun he looks in and points. But with a Decatur how can you be sure he got only your car????

- lidar is target specific, put the crosshairs on the vehicle, pull the trigger and that vehicle is that speed.
- radar transmits out a wider beam, but readings also correspond to the closest target, largest target and fastest target. Some radar units have settings to pickup vehicles greater than "x" speed faster than the patrol vehicle. Some units have a "faster mode". On 2 lane highways I use an elimination method to ensure I have the correct vehicle, even stationary on the 401 I use the method.

Quote:
Are all hand held's laser?
No

Quote:
Also another problem i see is how far is the Decatur actually reliable to? What if it was really far away in rainy weather and some guy cut in front of you going way faster he catches up and mistakes that guy with you?

The readings are still accurate, but the range is greatly affected and pending the moisture can go right down to nothing as the radar can not penetrate the moisture in the air and running down the windshield.

If the weather is rain, snow or fog, I will not be stopping much, I do not want to be on the shoulder for some dumb ass to rear end me.
Anyhoooo good cops do not get cold, wet or hungry......snow = cold,rain = wet, hungry = Tims :wink:

Quote:
I dont know if this is a rumor or not. I have heard an officer can give you a ticket without using a device to measure your speed???

yes....it would be disobey sign (maximum posted speed limit of "x"). I have never issued this offence based on observations alone for speed...having a speedometer and a vehicle passing me on the highway yes OR pacing a vehicle yes.
All lidar/radar actually does is give an actual number value for a speed.

Quote:
Lets say you were going 55 over. How can he be sure it wasn't 49 over???
If you are speaking of an offence without a radar/lidar...I don't know, I wouldn't want to do that. Lidar and radar are both accurate and are all in favour of the defendant, due to cosine.

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PostPosted: Thu Feb 26, 2009 2:40 pm 
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hwybear wrote:

Quote:
For a long time in Europe all the radars have a video screen, no need to prove much, the video recording will show exactly who the laser hit.

you are mentioning 2 different types of units there....which is it?


I've seen the one they have in the car, you get pulled over, they ask you into the police car, show you the video with your plates and the target at your car and live speed if you slow down it shows it all recorded.

Quote:
Again you are mentioning 2 totally different types of units.
1) LIDAR - must be used in stationary mode only
2) RADAR - can be used in stationary or moving mode.
Both are accurate.
Moving radar instructions?


Yes I am more interested in the moving radar instructions, as that's the ticket i am facing. The stationary are more or less clear to me. In my situation the officer was coming the opposite direction, made a u-turn, pulled me over. Said I had been the only one on the road.


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PostPosted: Thu Feb 26, 2009 8:39 pm 
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shmeli wrote:
I've seen the one they have in the car, you get pulled over, they ask you into the police car, show you the video with your plates and the target at your car and live speed if you slow down it shows it all recorded.

never heard of that.....do you have any video of that? sounds interesting thou

Quote:
Yes I am more interested in the moving radar instructions, as that's the ticket i am facing. The stationary are more or less clear to me. In my situation the officer was coming the opposite direction, made a u-turn, pulled me over. Said I had been the only one on the road.


Moving mode is very similiar to stationary, only difference is the cruiser is moving, your situation is "approach" mode. Very commonly used, used for years and years. The officer needs a visual observation of the vehicle travelling above the speed limit, radar then provides a "numerical" reading. Uturn keeping vehicle in sight and stop same.
Only one on the road can mean several things, pending on how that particular officer describes the situation. I am unable to comment on that as each officer uses their own terms to describe things, so I would not want to sway your decision on that comment either way.

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PostPosted: Tue Mar 03, 2009 8:15 pm 
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The only one I could find is here:



that's a us version as I understand different from the one I've seen but same idea.

So from what I understand the officer takes an estimate then flips the radar on to see the reading. If thte radar is in instant on would it lock the speed? I also wonder if all these radars show the direction in which the car whose speed is being measured is travelling in?

The other thing is the officer did lose me out of sight not for long but did lose me, I wonder if that would be a legitimate defence.


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PostPosted: Tue Mar 03, 2009 9:55 pm 
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Quote:
I also wonder if all these radars show the direction in which the car whose speed is being measured is travelling in?


Officer selection

Quote:
The other thing is the officer did lose me out of sight not for long but did lose me, I wonder if that would be a legitimate defence.


Possibly

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PostPosted: Wed Mar 04, 2009 12:49 am 
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shmeli wrote:
The only one I could find is here: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SQdXmjD7Xks

that's a us version as I understand different from the one I've seen but same idea.

So from what I understand the officer takes an estimate then flips the radar on to see the reading. If thte radar is in instant on would it lock the speed? I also wonder if all these radars show the direction in which the car whose speed is being measured is travelling in?.


That would be great to have, but at 10-20k per unit...that would be a lot of coin......would that prevent people from wasting time going to court? Would the officer still have to go or just show the video? It would be interesting how that works in that area.

Instant on radar.....radar is turned on, when target is observed, hit the button which activates the antenna and instantly transmits a signal to the target (instant on)....can retrieve a signal in about 1 sec. The officer has to lock the reading or not.......there is no requirement to lock a reading. The officer selects which direction he/she wants the radar to pick up and which antenna to use.

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