Back in April my wife got a 76 in a 50 charge and the officer knocked it down to 60 in a 50. Checked the ticket but no fatal errors. Asked for trial and requested disclosure. Got the full radar manual and officers notes. His notes were pretty much bullet proof with tracking history and the TEST PASSED both before and after enforcement and all the other elements . Went to court today (yes officer was there) and sat thru 3 hours of people mostly pleading guilty and setting trial dates then at 11am prosecution asked for short recess. There was only three of us left in the courtroom at this time. He spoke with the other two and sent one person off to go over notes with officer, then called me over and said "Well your charge is only a 10 over and this other guy has a failing to stop. If he wants to proceed to trial then we won't have time for yours because you filed a couple motions that we would have to deal with even before we start the trial. So if he wants a trial that will work in your favor and I will drop the charge. Any problems with that?" Of course I said "No, that sounds good to me." When the other guy came back in from talking to officer, he told prosecutor he wanted to go to trial, so prosecutor told the officer (for my wife's charge) that he could leave and told me he would withdraw charge when JP came back in. I will take a win anyway I can!!! I will post all my notes and motions below so you can see the defence that I was prepared to use.
Back in April my wife got a 76 in a 50 charge and the officer knocked it down to 60 in a 50.
Checked the ticket but no fatal errors. Asked for trial and requested disclosure. Got the full radar manual and officers notes. His notes were pretty much bullet proof with tracking history and the TEST PASSED both before and after enforcement and all the other elements .
Went to court today (yes officer was there) and sat thru 3 hours of people mostly pleading guilty and setting trial dates then at 11am prosecution asked for short recess. There was only three of us left in the courtroom at this time. He spoke with the other two and sent one person off to go over notes with officer, then called me over and said "Well your charge is only a 10 over and this other guy has a failing to stop. If he wants to proceed to trial then we won't have time for yours because you filed a couple motions that we would have to deal with even before we start the trial. So if he wants a trial that will work in your favor and I will drop the charge. Any problems with that?" Of course I said "No, that sounds good to me."
When the other guy came back in from talking to officer, he told prosecutor he wanted to go to trial, so prosecutor told the officer (for my wife's charge) that he could leave and told me he would withdraw charge when JP came back in.
I will take a win anyway I can!!!
I will post all my notes and motions below so you can see the defence that I was prepared to use.
So here is my entire defence I had prepared including motions I filed and even disclosure requests. https://copy.com/wzvOPlpNE6Z8nOAm You will notice my first Notice of Motion was an Affidavit but then my second Notice of Motion was a Sworn Declaration. An affadavit must be notorized but a sworn declaration can just be signed by you, which is easier and cheaper and that's why I changed.
So here is my entire defence I had prepared including motions I filed and even disclosure requests.
You will notice my first Notice of Motion was an Affidavit but then my second Notice of Motion was a Sworn Declaration. An affadavit must be notorized but a sworn declaration can just be signed by you, which is easier and cheaper and that's why I changed.
Just finished reading your detailed report thanks for that ! So basically prosecutor figured it would be too much work for 10 over ticket considering the 2 motions you have filed ? I currently have a ticket from the same jurisdiction and the same court location using the same radar gun model, would it be a valid motion to file to have this particular device evidence dismissed due to lack of TAC ? Aren't the police aware that this could be easily challenged and for some reason are still using this device ? When do I file this motion , before the trial date ?
Just finished reading your detailed report thanks for that ! So basically prosecutor figured it would be too much work for 10 over ticket considering the 2 motions you have filed ?
I currently have a ticket from the same jurisdiction and the same court location using the same radar gun model, would it be a valid motion to file to have this particular device evidence dismissed due to lack of TAC ? Aren't the police aware that this could be easily challenged and for some reason are still using this device ? When do I file this motion , before the trial date ?
Well what happened is that because I filed the motions, my file got put at the bottom of the pile. At the end of the morning they had two trials to do, but only time for one, so the prosecutor decided to work on the other one as the charge was more serious. He did say if the other person was going to plead guilty and not go to trial that he would have proceeded. They will almost always do the self-represented trials at the end, and they will almost always keep the most complicated/longest for the end as well. However I was still prepared to go ahead with the trial and was not actually planning on them dropping it before it started. I am not sure what the police are or are not aware of as far as the device is concerned. If you present evidence to be considered ahead of time in the form of a motion, then it makes them at least have to deal with it, and rebut it. Since I did not have to deal with the motion, I am not sure yet how they will try deal with it. Maybe they have other information that I did not have. You should file it as far in advance of the trial as you can so they have adequate time to prepare. And if you do file it, you need to be prepared to present it and defend it so you have to actually read the whole thing and understand each point as best you can... copy and paste motions do not work... you need to grasp the concepts.
Well what happened is that because I filed the motions, my file got put at the bottom of the pile. At the end of the morning they had two trials to do, but only time for one, so the prosecutor decided to work on the other one as the charge was more serious. He did say if the other person was going to plead guilty and not go to trial that he would have proceeded. They will almost always do the self-represented trials at the end, and they will almost always keep the most complicated/longest for the end as well. However I was still prepared to go ahead with the trial and was not actually planning on them dropping it before it started.
I am not sure what the police are or are not aware of as far as the device is concerned. If you present evidence to be considered ahead of time in the form of a motion, then it makes them at least have to deal with it, and rebut it. Since I did not have to deal with the motion, I am not sure yet how they will try deal with it. Maybe they have other information that I did not have. You should file it as far in advance of the trial as you can so they have adequate time to prepare. And if you do file it, you need to be prepared to present it and defend it so you have to actually read the whole thing and understand each point as best you can... copy and paste motions do not work... you need to grasp the concepts.
Do you have any knowledge if filing to have radar evidence dismissed for that particular device has worked in cases before or is this something you came up with by yourself ? Since the radar evidence is the main evidence, if the motion gets upheld does it basically dismiss the prosecutions case ? Officer can't testify what the radar said since it would not be allowed so what other testimony would he be able to submit ? Also honestly, if the prosecutor did not see an easy likely hood to convict, perhaps that's why he told you this ? How does another case affect yours if he can just get another conviction ? They could have easily adjuourned to another date ? What I am saying is that your 2 motions might have been too difficult to deal with in his opinion and not worth the time and hassle ?
Do you have any knowledge if filing to have radar evidence dismissed for that particular device has worked in cases before or is this something you came up with by yourself ?
Since the radar evidence is the main evidence, if the motion gets upheld does it basically dismiss the prosecutions case ? Officer can't testify what the radar said since it would not be allowed so what other testimony would he be able to submit ?
Also honestly, if the prosecutor did not see an easy likely hood to convict, perhaps that's why he told you this ? How does another case affect yours if he can just get another conviction ? They could have easily adjuourned to another date ? What I am saying is that your 2 motions might have been too difficult to deal with in his opinion and not worth the time and hassle ?
I came up with it myself and have not seen it used before. If the radar evidence was excluded, then there is no evidence to your speed and the charge would have to be dropped. I really can't speak to the prosecutors reasons. There was another guy that he sent out with officer to review officers notes, and while they were out there he told me that if the guy wanted a trial then he would drop mine, but if the guy was going to plead guilty then he would proceed with my trial. What I can tell you, is that sitting there for 3 hours of court and listening to the different discussions that the prosecutor was having with everybody, he seemed to me to be a very reasonable person, meaning that he was not interested in simply pressing forward and getting a conviction on everything he could, but was intead interested in the evidence and whether it was worthwhile to proceed. Yes, he could very well of asked for an adjournment for my trial (which I would have objected too), but then the police officer would have to come back again so I don't think he was concerned that it was too difficult. You can not rely on the officer not showing up and you can not rely on the prosecutor thinking it will be to difficult. Although those are possibilities, you need to have a good defense prepared as well. I sent you PM.
I came up with it myself and have not seen it used before.
If the radar evidence was excluded, then there is no evidence to your speed and the charge would have to be dropped.
I really can't speak to the prosecutors reasons. There was another guy that he sent out with officer to review officers notes, and while they were out there he told me that if the guy wanted a trial then he would drop mine, but if the guy was going to plead guilty then he would proceed with my trial. What I can tell you, is that sitting there for 3 hours of court and listening to the different discussions that the prosecutor was having with everybody, he seemed to me to be a very reasonable person, meaning that he was not interested in simply pressing forward and getting a conviction on everything he could, but was intead interested in the evidence and whether it was worthwhile to proceed. Yes, he could very well of asked for an adjournment for my trial (which I would have objected too), but then the police officer would have to come back again so I don't think he was concerned that it was too difficult.
You can not rely on the officer not showing up and you can not rely on the prosecutor thinking it will be to difficult. Although those are possibilities, you need to have a good defense prepared as well.
Yah, but for a split second weren't you disappointed that you didn't get to argue your case? I had something similar happen and I was so pumped up and ready to present that it was almost a let down when the JP said I could go. Emphasis on the word "Almost"! Congratulations!
jsherk wrote:
I will take a win anyway I can!!!
Yah, but for a split second weren't you disappointed that you didn't get to argue your case?
I had something similar happen and I was so pumped up and ready to present that it was almost a let down when the JP said I could go. Emphasis on the word "Almost"!
Nope I doubt it because there would have been much eye-rolling from the judge, and a conviction. Even if the device isn't listed for Canada the evidence would have to show it wasn't accurate. If someone wanted to lay a charge against the officer for using an unapproved device then that would be an entirely different matter. It's not like a breath alcohol measuring device which has to be listed in the CC. He got it dropped because he was going to be a bigger pain in the ass than the time allowed for, not because his arguments had any merit.
Nope I doubt it because there would have been much eye-rolling from the judge, and a conviction.
Even if the device isn't listed for Canada the evidence would have to show it wasn't accurate. If someone wanted to lay a charge against the officer for using an unapproved device then that would be an entirely different matter.
It's not like a breath alcohol measuring device which has to be listed in the CC.
He got it dropped because he was going to be a bigger pain in the ass than the time allowed for, not because his arguments had any merit.
Former Ontario Police Officer. Advice will become less relevant as the time goes by !
I have received a $450 ticket for parking in a handicap loading zone. I did not see the sign and the pavement was not marked. I have lived in Toronto for 15 years and this is the first ticket of any kind I have received. My last ticket, in a different city, was over 20 years ago. I am always very careful about parking and traffic regulations.
I cannot afford to pay $450. I do not make a lot of…
Petition to change HTA 136 (1)(A)Failure to Stop at Stop Sign
Hello, it does not seem right that not coming to a complete stop, that your wheels do not stop turning or rolling stop carries the same penalty as not stopping at all at a stop sign . I think it's time this laws challenged and quashed. I wondered how to go both that? Can we start a website that we can sign a petition to have this law…
My 78 year old Mother got a ticket at 8am on March 31/09 as the morning sun was in her eyes and she (as well, many others), didnt see the sign ahead-"No straight throughway (between 7-9am Mon to Fri". (All english Sign might I add) at Dundas & Shaw. (**Proceed Contrary Sign Intersection -HTA-144(9).
4 months prior to her court date in November, I requested disclosure 3 times prior to her…
Reference is made in the HTA to Stop Signs at Railway Crossings (passive crossings):
HTA, 163 (2)
O Reg 615 (7)
However I cannot find specific regulation detailing how a railway crossing controlled by a stop sign must be configured.
The Ontario Traffic Manual, Book 11 - Markings and Delineation under section "3.9 Reserved Facility Markings - Railways" (p99) speaks to the needs for marking, but is…
I got a parking ticket on Halloween around 9pm for parking in front of a cross walk in a residential street. There's no sign or anything that says you can't park there.
You know the crosswalk/walkways in residential streets that are fenced on both sides and that simply lead you to another street on the other side is what I'm talking about.
The parking ticket officer must have seen me walk in…
So I was on my way home, going a solid 120 as usual in the fast lane. Someone decides to cut me off going less than 100. I do a quick double lane change and speed up unknowingly hitting apparently 150. After speeding for a mere 20 seconds, I am pulled over. Cop says he reduced the ticket to 49 over, I was charged $359 for that. Of course, my insurance isn't in my car... I had to take it out…
Hi, new at this and could use all the help and guidance..
My brother just got in an accident where he swerved to avoid hitting a squirrel and got in an accident. Luckily, no one was hurt as he did not hit another party so it was just our car (old car and it will be a write off). The cop issued a careless driving ticket - notice of appearance. I read a similiar thread about this but not sure if it…
There is some construction going on for the last three months and hence, the northbound right lane on airport road at queen street which exits is closed due to construction and they have put barriers. they have put the right turn sign on the adjacent lane in the black background. Also the right lane north of Queen Street at Airport road is closed and they have an arrow sign there which indicates…
I keep being told that if you are found to be driving with bare feet, you could be fined etc... but nowhere can I find the actual rule anyway. Does anyone know if this is truly illegal - or perhaps used to be? In summer, sandals being what they are, its much safer, in my opinion to kick them off and drive with bare feet.... but then I hate anything on my feet in hot weather!
I got pulled over yesterday on the Sir John A. Macdonald Parkway in Ottawa for going 106 km/h in a 60 zone. It was around noon, the weather was good and I was the only car on the road. He was hiding around a corner and was just stopped in the right lane (there are no shoulders on this road). I was alone in my car and neither of us said much, he didnt reduce my fine and gave me a ticket of a set…
I recently received a ticket from a military policeman on a military base in Ontario. Therefore, I was charged under the "Government Property Traffic Regulations" (GPTR), section 9. I know that some may say, why are you posting on a website for the HTA? Well, in Ontario, the military uses the Provincial Offences Act/Ontario Court of Justice for traffic tickets issued on a military base, i.e.…
For my first ever post, I'm going to ask for your own story dealing with a s.172 charge.
There is a lot of teeth grinding online about the street racing laws but few hands-on accounts from people who have been there and done that. I saw many posts from people seeking advice but few mention the actual outcome.
With about 1/3 conviction rate, there should be many success stories around. Even if you we…
... two cars pulled over, we (my wife and 7 month old boy) were passing a truck in the passing lane, first car passed me and I pulled out behind him. Crested a hill while on a curve, pass the truck and move back into the driving lane. Police officer shows up behind and pulls us both over. Gave me a ticket saying I was following the car in front doing 124km/hr.
We all know that numerous police agencies around Ontario (and world for that matter) set up speed traps in inconspicuous locations to catch motorists who are speeding.
If you know of any speed traps that are in regular use please post them here for all to know and avoid speeding fines.
Format: Town, Location, Direction, known days of operation (if known).
Sorry if this has been covered, but I searched and didn't find anything.
Just thought I'd share my recent experience.
Last Friday I was driving myself and my wife home from a nice dinner date in Markham/Richmond Hill north of T-DOT, and I had two (what looked like) ETF officers "tail" me home and park on my driveway.
I had been driving southbound and reached a red light stopped in the right…
I have my trial date coming up next week. I got a ticket in North Bay, ON for driving 139km/h on a 90km/h. He was using a Genesis II directional radar. Tested it before and after the stop according to the notes. In his notes, he mentions the speeds that were displayed on the radar which were 140, 141, and 139. In his notes, he also mentions that the color of my car was blue when it is…
I paid my fines for 2 tickets; fail to provide ownership and fail to provide insurence. I now know i should have checked not guilty and mailed them in.
(the papers were in the car. I was looking for them but was distracted by a badgering 2nd officer who was attempting to identify my passenger. I found them when i stopped for coffee later.)
Now that you actually opened this topic and I have your attention
Please read all items below 1 to 8
1) If YOU start a THREAD/DISCUSSION for an incident - KEEP on ONE THREAD, even for no activity for several months or even just to keep updates for court steps, stay on one thread
HOW DO I FIND MY POST? >> TOP right of page is the following: view unread posts / view new posts / view…
I plan to request disclosure through registered mail or fax. I've tried requesting in person but got rejected because they told me I did not provide sufficient information on my Disclosure Request letter.
My question is, do they really need the officer's name and division when I provided them with the Offence Number, Offence Date, Charge, Court Date, and Location? Also they said they do…
Been charged with Careless Driving in a residential area.
1. The Officer has a Witness statement. If the Witness does not appear at Trail, can that statement be introduced at Trial by the Crown and used against me.?
2. The Address "Number" (the Street is correct) on the infraction does not remotely exist, is an empty field. Does this matter?
Is there a requirement for commercial vehicles to be maintained only by licensed mechanics (e.g., oil changes, tire rotations)? I'm working with Habitat for Humanity and we are looking into a cargo van for the ReStore; I'm more than capable of doing maintenance but I'm not sure if it is legal because I am not a licensed mechanic.
which I had not search.
Now that you actually opened this topic and I have your attention 