Need Advice - Disobey STOP sign

apatel
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Need Advice - Disobey STOP sign

Unread post by apatel on

Hi Everyone,
Nice site and forum
I need you advice and help,
After searching all over the internet I came accross the TRAFFIC COMBAT site and taking inspiration from that site I decided to fight the ticket. Here are my details

1)I got a ticket under HTA 136(1)(a) -Fail to stop-Disobey Stop Sign on April 17, 2010 in Scarborough.

2) I submitted to challenge the ticket on April 28,2010.

3) I got a Notice of trail dated Dec 15, 2010 setting a trail date on 27th April 2011.

4) Sent a disclosure request to the Prosecutors' Office using the draft from Traffic Combat site on Feb 07, 2011 via FAX and the original by regular mail stating in the fax that i am sending a copy by regular mail.
5) Sent a first reminder on March 04, 2011 similarly by FAX and regular mail.
6) No response so far so sent sent a second reminder on May 27, 2011 again by FAX and copy by registered mail. I have all the fax confirmations and the registered acknowledgements.
As recommended by Traffic Combat I did not put my telephone number or email address on the disclosure request. I have received no response so far.
I would like to know if I still need to send more reminders or this much is enough to prove my follow up on disclosure request.
Since I submitted for trail on April 28 and the trail date is April 27, 2011(just one day shy of 13 months, can I still file under section 11b for undue delay.
I would really appreciate all advise and help on the above


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Radar Identified
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Unread post by Radar Identified on

You are a bit late to file the 11B for your trial date. You need to give them at least 15 working days' notice with the 11B. You will need an adjournment to file the paperwork correctly, so any delay from here on will be charged to you, so the delay clock is still just shy of 13 months. That said, you can point out that you never received disclosure, so the delay could be charged to them, which keeps the clock running. Either way, you'll need more time to file. You should have a good reason to give to the JP as to why you did not show up prepared on the day of trial. The only disclosure you could expect for this case is the officer's notes and nothing else.

However, the fact that you did not include your phone number or e-mail address may be something that the Prosecutor uses against you. This is because the Prosecutor may indicate that they tried to contact you indicating that your disclosure was ready to be picked up, but they could not get a hold of you. Many of the stuff on ticketcombat sounds good at first glance, but in practice it is not very helpful.
* The above is NOT legal advice. By acting on anything I have said, you assume responsibility for any outcome and consequences. *
http://www.OntarioTicket.com OR http://www.OHTA.ca


apatel
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Unread post by apatel on

Thanks Radar for your response,
However I am sorry i made a mistake in one of the dates. The trail date is 27th May,2011 NOT 27th April, 2011.
I have reposted the details below with the correct date. Would your opinion change?

1)I got a ticket under HTA 136(1)(a) -Fail to stop-Disobey Stop Sign on April 17, 2010 in Scarborough.

2) I submitted to challenge the ticket on April 28,2010.

3) I got a Notice of trail dated Dec 15, 2010 setting a trail date on 27th May 2011.

4) Sent a disclosure request to the Prosecutors' Office using the draft from Traffic Combat site on Feb 07, 2011 via FAX and the original by regular mail stating in the fax that i am sending a copy by regular mail.
5) Sent a first reminder on March 04, 2011 similarly by FAX and regular mail.
6) No response so far so sent sent a second reminder on March 31, 2011 again by FAX and copy by registered mail. I have all the fax confirmations and the registered acknowledgements.
As recommended by Traffic Combat I did not put my telephone number or email address on the disclosure request. I have received no response so far.
I would like to know if I still need to send more reminders or this much is enough to prove my follow up on disclosure request.
Since I submitted for trail on April 28, 2010 and the trail date is April 27, 2011(just one day shy of 13 months), can I still file under section 11b for undue delay.
I would really appreciate all advise and help on the above


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Radar Identified
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Unread post by Radar Identified on

27 of May changes things for sure. File the 11B. See the "Courts and Procedures" section of this website for advice on how to file it.

I'd also recommend making one more disclosure request, but this time include your phone number. I know that "Ticket Combat" suggested to not do this, but I've spent quite a bit of time helping people with traffic tickets, and the advice to omit your phone number could very well be used against you. Furthermore, the only thing you should ask for with your disclosure request with this offence is the officer's notes and nothing else. If you asked for stuff like "witness will-say statements" and "statements made by the defendant," none of those are applicable and they water down your disclosure request. You want to show that you were being reasonable and asking for stuff you were legally entitled to, and that the Crown truly failed to meet their obligations. You will need this if the 11B gets rejected, because it keeps the delay clock going and you can re-file the 11B.
* The above is NOT legal advice. By acting on anything I have said, you assume responsibility for any outcome and consequences. *
http://www.OntarioTicket.com OR http://www.OHTA.ca


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Decatur
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Unread post by Decatur on

I'm beginning to think that some courts may take a dim view of not providing either a phone number or an e-mail address. Most of the Justices of the Peace are every in touch with technology and would recognize when someone is attempting to delay the receipt of disclosure.


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Radar Identified
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Unread post by Radar Identified on

Decatur wrote:I'm beginning to think that some courts may take a dim view of not providing either a phone number or an e-mail address. Most of the Justices of the Peace are every in touch with technology and would recognize when someone is attempting to delay the receipt of disclosure.
Agreed.
* The above is NOT legal advice. By acting on anything I have said, you assume responsibility for any outcome and consequences. *
http://www.OntarioTicket.com OR http://www.OHTA.ca


apatel
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Unread post by apatel on

Hi
Just to provide an update. I had my tryst with the court today. I had gone ready to ask for a stay or adjournment due to non receipt of any disclosure despite three reminders to the prosecutor.
The officer was there, but surprisingly the prosecutor told me that they are not proceeding in my case and both the charges will be dropped. When my turn came, the prosecutor told the court that the officer is present, but they are not proceeding with the charges against me and they are withdrawn. I am still not sure why they did this but I am happy

It was win for me, but a let down as I had gone prepared to argue under sec 7 for non receipt of disclosure. By the way the prosecutor did not bring up any issues about absence of phone number on my disclosure request or any of the reminders. end of story

Many thanks to Traffic Combat site, Radar Identified and this site for providing invaluable advice and information
apatel


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Simon Borys
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Unread post by Simon Borys on

Common reasons why charges are withdrawn in situations like this are: (1) officer made no notes or insufficient notes to support the a conviction, and (2) wrong charge (the charge isn't really supported on the facts as the officer recorded them) and they don't want to bother issuing a corrective summons and bringing everybody back to do it over again.




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NOTHING I SAY ON HERE IS LEGAL ADVICE.


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