I received a ticket this morning for 109 in and 80 kph zone. While I feel strongly that I was not going that fast, I had just finished a safe pass of a dumptruck going 65 and was over 80 ( but under 100) during that passing manoeuvre. The officer was parked ahead of me, on the shoulder, facing away from me (with traffic). He was in an OPP highway cruiser - very difficult to recognize. He was inside his vehicle and by the time I reached him, my speed was back below 90 - I monitored this very carefully. How could he have gotten me at 109? Do they have rear facing radar? Is his handheld reliable from over his shoulder and inside the car? BTW- he refused to show me the radar and retorted 'We'll see about it in court' when I asked for more details. When I tried to dispute the speed and explain he dropped the ticket in my lap and walked away. He actually said 'you've been served'...seriously ?!? I asked him to make note of my specific objections in his notebook and he refused. All he did was yell at me. Im a grown man and not use to this type of treatment. My question is, where do I find the rules or regulations governing how the OPP sets up and executes a proper traffic stop? What responsibility does he have to show me the radar reading and at least hear out my objections? I feel very disrespected as a citizen by this officers treatment of me and am seriously considering going to court for the ticket and taking the case of his juvenile behaviour to his supervisors. Advice?
I received a ticket this morning for 109 in and 80 kph zone. While I feel strongly that I was not going that fast, I had just finished a safe pass of a dumptruck going 65 and was over 80 ( but under 100) during that passing manoeuvre. The officer was parked ahead of me, on the shoulder, facing away from me (with traffic). He was in an OPP highway cruiser - very difficult to recognize. He was inside his vehicle and by the time I reached him, my speed was back below 90 - I monitored this very carefully. How could he have gotten me at 109? Do they have rear facing radar? Is his handheld reliable from over his shoulder and inside the car? BTW- he refused to show me the radar and retorted 'We'll see about it in court' when I asked for more details. When I tried to dispute the speed and explain he dropped the ticket in my lap and walked away. He actually said 'you've been served'...seriously ?!? I asked him to make note of my specific objections in his notebook and he refused. All he did was yell at me. Im a grown man and not use to this type of treatment.
My question is, where do I find the rules or regulations governing how the OPP sets up and executes a proper traffic stop? What responsibility does he have to show me the radar reading and at least hear out my objections? I feel very disrespected as a citizen by this officers treatment of me and am seriously considering going to court for the ticket and taking the case of his juvenile behaviour to his supervisors. Advice?
There is no requirement for the officer to show you the speed measuring device at the time of the stop. While officers will sometimes show you the device as a courtesy, it's not always possible if the device is mounted directly in their vehicle. Many traffic enforcement cars have the radar mounted directly in the back window to catch vehicles approaching from behind. In terms of your objections, it's probably not going to do much to sway the officer's opinion if he measured your speed with radar/laser. Ultimately the side of the road is not the place to argue the ticket anyways. The proper time and place to argue any ticket is in Court. If you have concerns over the officer's behaviour, then direct them to his supervisors.
There is no requirement for the officer to show you the speed measuring device at the time of the stop. While officers will sometimes show you the device as a courtesy, it's not always possible if the device is mounted directly in their vehicle. Many traffic enforcement cars have the radar mounted directly in the back window to catch vehicles approaching from behind.
In terms of your objections, it's probably not going to do much to sway the officer's opinion if he measured your speed with radar/laser. Ultimately the side of the road is not the place to argue the ticket anyways. The proper time and place to argue any ticket is in Court. If you have concerns over the officer's behaviour, then direct them to his supervisors.
Thanks for your reply. When setting up a speed enforcement zone doesn't the officer have to present his vehicle in a way that is visible and recognizable? I always see them perpendicular to the road with the officer either out of his car or at least with the window down. This officer was only pulled to the shoulder. How can a rear mounted radar accurately measure my speed if there is another vehicle (the truck I was passing) between me and the cruiser? Does he aim that radar with a camera or something? Finally, I reviewed the policing act and it seems like the officer was supposed to keep accurate notes. I specifically requested that he record my concerns so that there was a record of what I would attest to in court. Am i wrong again here? As far as his behaviour goes, Im frustrated but recognize that its a difficult job to do - no one is happy to see him on a day like this . After he told me the charge I literally only said "...but sir.." before he yelled that he would see me in court. What a jerk. Thanks again for your reply A.
Thanks for your reply. When setting up a speed enforcement zone doesn't the officer have to present his vehicle in a way that is visible and recognizable? I always see them perpendicular to the road with the officer either out of his car or at least with the window down. This officer was only pulled to the shoulder.
How can a rear mounted radar accurately measure my speed if there is another vehicle (the truck I was passing) between me and the cruiser? Does he aim that radar with a camera or something?
Finally, I reviewed the policing act and it seems like the officer was supposed to keep accurate notes. I specifically requested that he record my concerns so that there was a record of what I would attest to in court. Am i wrong again here?
As far as his behaviour goes, Im frustrated but recognize that its a difficult job to do - no one is happy to see him on a day like this . After he told me the charge I literally only said "...but sir.." before he yelled that he would see me in court. What a jerk.
There is nothing that requires a police officer to put his car where you can see it, if there was they might as well just tell the officer that he must leave his emergency light on too while he is working. One thing people need to understand is it may be called a speed trap, that doesn't mean it is.... You had fair warning of the speed, there are speed signs up to give you fair warning what might be enforced. Yes the radar can accurately measure your car coming up from behind, as a matter of fact the car will have to be parked as you say it was so that it can read your speed. The speed is more accurate the closer to a direct line you are behind the direction of the radar. But don't take that the wrong way, the accuracy will always drop off in your favour the further out you are so it wont be a defense argument in court. The radar isn't aimed with a camera. You are probably mistaking it for a laser which needs to be placed directly on the vehicle being measured (although not with a camera). The beam of a laser is extremely thin, the radar on the other hand is very wide and covers the entire road. It just needs to be facing the direction you are coming from. I can't speak for the radar device that officer was using but an MPH Bee III MDR can take 2 readings at once, the closest largest target, and also the fastest target it sees, in this case the truck, and then you respectively. I have no doubt the officer did keep accurate notes as he is required to, however his notes are in respect to the offence and proving the charge. There is nothing that requires him to make notes for you and your concerns, that is for you to do. I wasn't at your stop so I can't speak about his or your conduct at the time. This however is not what the trial is about and like someone already said if there is an issue with his conduct then it needs to be taken up with his supervisor. I will say though that arguing with him or trying to explain your way out of the ticket will not usually work. He has already decided you did something wrong, that's why you were stopped. In addition to this, in this case he even has mechanical proof of the offence with the radar so it isn't just a grey area opinion that you did something wrong. The argument should be saved for court. The office isn't the final word, the Justice is.
There is nothing that requires a police officer to put his car where you can see it, if there was they might as well just tell the officer that he must leave his emergency light on too while he is working. One thing people need to understand is it may be called a speed trap, that doesn't mean it is.... You had fair warning of the speed, there are speed signs up to give you fair warning what might be enforced.
Yes the radar can accurately measure your car coming up from behind, as a matter of fact the car will have to be parked as you say it was so that it can read your speed. The speed is more accurate the closer to a direct line you are behind the direction of the radar. But don't take that the wrong way, the accuracy will always drop off in your favour the further out you are so it wont be a defense argument in court. The radar isn't aimed with a camera. You are probably mistaking it for a laser which needs to be placed directly on the vehicle being measured (although not with a camera). The beam of a laser is extremely thin, the radar on the other hand is very wide and covers the entire road. It just needs to be facing the direction you are coming from. I can't speak for the radar device that officer was using but an MPH Bee III MDR can take 2 readings at once, the closest largest target, and also the fastest target it sees, in this case the truck, and then you respectively.
I have no doubt the officer did keep accurate notes as he is required to, however his notes are in respect to the offence and proving the charge. There is nothing that requires him to make notes for you and your concerns, that is for you to do.
I wasn't at your stop so I can't speak about his or your conduct at the time. This however is not what the trial is about and like someone already said if there is an issue with his conduct then it needs to be taken up with his supervisor. I will say though that arguing with him or trying to explain your way out of the ticket will not usually work. He has already decided you did something wrong, that's why you were stopped. In addition to this, in this case he even has mechanical proof of the offence with the radar so it isn't just a grey area opinion that you did something wrong. The argument should be saved for court. The office isn't the final word, the Justice is.
Decatur units will also provide dual signals for target vehicles. When you (I'm guessing) started arguing with the officer about the ticket and he places it inside the cabin of your car, he "serves" you. I legal component of that ticket is that he "serve" you personally. It may be a coincidence but 109 in an 80 is a "reduced to" speed. I'm just speculating, but was this ticket reduced from a higher speed?
Decatur units will also provide dual signals for target vehicles.
When you (I'm guessing) started arguing with the officer about the ticket and he places it inside the cabin of your car, he "serves" you. I legal component of that ticket is that he "serve" you personally.
It may be a coincidence but 109 in an 80 is a "reduced to" speed. I'm just speculating, but was this ticket reduced from a higher speed?
Best thing for you to do is choose the trial option and file a notice of intent to appear. When you get your trial date, you can ask the Prosecutor's office for a copy of the officer's notes, the relevant sections of the radar manual, and anything else they intend to use as evidence against you. Speeding cases are not that easy to win against, although the Prosecutor may offer you a reduced speed of 15 km/h over the limit. If you do go to trial, or you want to plea-bargain for the reduced speed, my recommendation is to keep the officer's conduct out of it. The speeding charge and the officer's behaviour are two entirely separate things and should be handled that way. I've never seen any ticket reduced or thrown out "because the officer was being a jerk."
amcg wrote:
My question is, where do I find the rules or regulations governing how the OPP sets up and executes a proper traffic stop? What responsibility does he have to show me the radar reading and at least hear out my objections?
Best thing for you to do is choose the trial option and file a notice of intent to appear. When you get your trial date, you can ask the Prosecutor's office for a copy of the officer's notes, the relevant sections of the radar manual, and anything else they intend to use as evidence against you. Speeding cases are not that easy to win against, although the Prosecutor may offer you a reduced speed of 15 km/h over the limit. If you do go to trial, or you want to plea-bargain for the reduced speed, my recommendation is to keep the officer's conduct out of it. The speeding charge and the officer's behaviour are two entirely separate things and should be handled that way. I've never seen any ticket reduced or thrown out "because the officer was being a jerk."
* The above is NOT legal advice. By acting on anything I have said, you assume responsibility for any outcome and consequences. *
http://www.OntarioTicket.com OR http://www.OHTA.ca
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